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autism0
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22 Mar 2008, 12:01 pm

For the peoples faking it. [1] they appear to do so only in public, [2] they are otherwise alone most of the time, [3] they don't work in public (instead have solitary jobs of various sorts); and many don't work but a part of their faking autism/aspergers is receiving SSI, Food Stamps, government housing, transportation assistance, and so on.

I don't condemn such a person. As I wrote before, I think it's a creative way of dealing with other horrific problems.

But yes perhaps they should try intensive therapy before adopting autism/aspergers as a life style for therapy. But they already tried the therapy at length, and it wasn't helpful. So now they can let go. It's easier, for them, to not look at anyone, it reduces their stress and burden. And they explain this as "my autism", and tell others.

Some go so far to take a vow-of-silence (and fake being non-verbal), whereas before, many people knew them when they were in fact fully verbal. Many people in different religious and spiritual faiths will take vows-of-silence for periods, some long periods.

In many movies and television there are actors who play the parts of autistic teens and adults, and I believe that most people, with practice, and desire, could act autistic and convince any autism specialist in an appointment. I also believe most anyone, if they knew about the disorders and practiced and had the desire, could convince psychiatrists of schizophrenia and multiple-personality-disorder (Dissociative Identity Disorder) and many more.

The people who fake autism/aspergers did not, previously, have normal/neurotypical lives. Their lives were fraught with things such as, horrible depression, manic-depression, intense personality disorders, suicide attempts, aggression toward others, childhood abuse, inability to fit in with others, inability to get along with others well.

The lifestyle of autism, in those faking it. Many faking or malingering autism/aspergers find this their new lifestyle, and they love it, and reject their former lives as neurotypical/normal. Many go so far as to embrace their lives as autistic, reporting it to others with enthusiasm, and being proud of it, and rejecting neurotypicals.

As for the people in the past who knew the now-autistic-claiming-person when he/she was neurotypical/normal. They are confused as to what happened, but usually so much time has passed that they aren't interested in it all, and they usually live in different states, and are like "oh well, weird, but oh well". And maybe some gossip will spread, but they knew this person as normal years and years ago, and there is no involvement between them. The person's family might also be far away, and not be involved with this person, as of many years. Or the person may have convince the family that he/she has autism now.

Reminds me, to a degree, of when suddenly you see a person has changed their lifestyle to being a goth, or punk rocker, or hippie, or drug-user. Suddenly they have changed, their dress, personalities, lifestyles. They seem alien to what you knew before.



Last edited by autism0 on 22 Mar 2008, 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Whisperer
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22 Mar 2008, 12:05 pm

All this "my hand-flapping is more authentic than yours" talk is laughable. Some people are so brittle they just can't acknowledge others might be higher functioning.

The moment I joined this forum I clearly said "I'm not sure if I have it or not" and that's still there in my profile for everyone to read. There's others in my situation and we also had our long posts discussing the evidence for and against an AS dx. In fact, I went as far as to batter the theory itself and try to figure out for myself to what extent does it make sense or not. If people can't read I'm not sure what level of functioning is that.

The funniest thing of this elitism is that those that claim to have a "real" dx seem oblivious to the fact that the shrink in question might've as well been wrong. . . and that most likely, better theories explaining the spectrum will eventually emerge.

. . .I can't be arsed to prove I'm a nice guy to people making threads like this; especially when they can't even express their views if it's not behind the anonymousness of a new account.



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22 Mar 2008, 12:12 pm

Brandon-J wrote:
Why would anybody want to fake being an aspie? It doesn't make any sense


Probably the infamous female astronaunt for one.

Lawyer used Asperger Syndrome as a defence excuse.



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22 Mar 2008, 12:37 pm

I know that some criminals may try to fake having AS to avoid charges...but why would someone who was not a criminal, nor wants government assistance pretend to have an ASD? What ARE the benefits? Quite honestly...i see none.

This may be a little irrevevant but it does have a point...
When I went to get my diagnosis, I was 100% sure that I did not have AS and that my mother was being melodramatic about it. I told the doctor who was diagnosing me that, as well. After she finished talking with me about school, home life, my childhood, my personal life, hobbies/interests...and even got me to walk across the room while bouncing a ball, she told my mother that she'd like to interview her and record it on tape and ask her questions about my childhood and present life [while I was out of the room].
Anyway my point being was that, after my "part" of the assessment [5 hours!...so long!] and trying to convince her that i did NOT have aspergers, she said that i "highly fit the criteria". :roll:

My final point being is that...an NT faking AS is like an AS trying to fake being NT. You may be able to fake it in some situations, but sooner or later your bound to slip up and let your true self show. Highly trained professionals who know about ASDs can NEARLY ALWAYS tell who has and hasn't got the "real thing" anyway.


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mikegee
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22 Mar 2008, 12:44 pm

[quote="Whisperer"]All this "my hand-flapping is more authentic than yours" talk is laughable. Some people are so brittle they just can't acknowledge others might be higher functioning.


ahh yes; i was waiting patiently for someone to finally touch on this specific point. excellent point!

it's called "spectrum" for a reason, my fellow aspies...

there are aspies that simply cannot function at all in society. there are others who have a difficult time of it. there are still others who learn to adapt, and make the best of it... and, also, yes, deal with it, there are aspies who for a variety of reasons were never diagnosed as children, and learned to adapt to NT-land, and did a really fine job of it, and are very well functioning, intelligent, semi-social, and successful. I hope this discussion of "fakers" is not insinuating that high functioning adapted aspies are fakers... i'll repeat, i certainly hope this is not the insinuation.
speaking for myself, i'm really amazed i coped as well as i have with a lot of hard work and self empowerment, and aspies everywhere on the spectrum deserve the kudos for getting through another day, however they do that. I can see how some aspies with more obvious traits may look at high functioning types as "fakers", but i assure you, what you see of us on our outside, and how we integrate well into NT society, for all of that, it is truly a daily struggle for us too.

thnx for listening!

mike
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Kaleido
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22 Mar 2008, 12:54 pm

I didn't read it like that mike, I think what is meant is there are some people who probably know perfectly well that they are not on the spectrum but do know and have maybe even been diagnosed with a less 'fashionable' disorder, (if there is such a thing lol ) who would rather say they are Aspie than what they really have. Or maybe that they don't quite fit into society and have found a place on forums such as this one and are happy to call themselves Aspie rather than have no place to make friends. That is how I read it anyway.



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22 Mar 2008, 1:03 pm

Interesting thing I read somewhere. Apparently two psychologists wanted to review two psychiatric hospitals which had been accused of bad treatment of patients but for all official reviews had behaved impeccably. The two psychologists decided to fake schizophrenia and get admitted to the hospitals for 6 months. This worked, but after the 6 months elapsed, the two psychologists were in no state to evaluate the hospitals as they had both actually become schizophrenic!

The moral of this story (true or not), is that by behaving in a certain way for long enough means that you take on these characteristics.

I dont know if I have AS or not. I have certain of the characteristics and certain people who know me well think I have it. However on tests I score as borderline. The important thing for me is that I have always felt different and AS (or at least a mild form) explains both this and all the social problems I have had. Whether I really have it or not is less important than the fact that I feel very accepted here which I did not feel in general society (unless it is with people I have known for years).



mikegee
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22 Mar 2008, 1:12 pm

Bopkasen wrote:
Brandon-J wrote:
Why would anybody want to fake being an aspie? It doesn't make any sense


Probably the infamous female astronaunt for one.

Lawyer used Asperger Syndrome as a defence excuse.


wow... i never considered that concept before. that's bizarre. i mean, if she really is an aspie, ok, understandable, but if it's faked as a criminal defense ploy, that's just plain shameful and inexcusable...

it's ironic that you used that as an example of an excuse, considering a lot of posts on this subject are suggesting that mentally ill people use aspergers as a mask for their mental illness. also, it can be said that some aspies could have mental illness that could be in part due to their having aspergers, and the difficulties in dealing with life, and also, that it is entirely possible that some aspies may also have mental illness non related to aspergers. there are so many variations on this concept that if you really think about it long enough, it can make your head spin! haha

by the way, has anyone else noticed this??? when you type aspergers in this forum, the spell checker points out that aspergers is mis-spelled??? what's up with that, wrong planet? how long must we wait for the word "aspergers" to be considered a legitimate word? many dictionaries dont even recognize it as a true word! example:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/aspergers

could this be a reason why NTs do not consider this a true condition? i wonder how many NTs hear about aspergers, go to dictionary.com, type the word, and think "oh, right, what a big liar, it's not even a word!"

makes ya think doesnt it??? i'm posting a new forum on this subject, i think its outrageous!

mike
http://www.myspace.com/mikegeorgemusic


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mikegee
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22 Mar 2008, 1:23 pm

i fake NT. it's true. I'm pretty good at it, until i get flustered, or speak my mind without considering the consequences, or overload from to many people and too much noise and chatter, or have to explain myself for not being as social as people wish i was, and my only excuse is that i'm busy doing my own thing, or spend hour and/or days concentrating my energies on interests i have. other than that, i'm a pretty good NT faker! ;)

mike
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wisteria
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22 Mar 2008, 1:26 pm

Bopkasen wrote:
Brandon-J wrote:
Why would anybody want to fake being an aspie? It doesn't make any sense


Probably the infamous female astronaunt for one.

Lawyer used Asperger Syndrome as a defence excuse.


Actually when I first read about her my first thought was that she likely had Asperger's Syndrome. She was clearly obsessive and acting irrational due to her obsession, and given her field, she is likely highly intelligent and analytical. If she managed to get as far as she did at NASA, her NT emulator was probably in overdrive all the time, which might have made her snap.

Anyway, the whole question of "faking" Asperger's is something I mull over a lot. The whole notion of Asperger's is subjective, as are the definitions of various personality disorders. There's no blood test for Asperger's. It's just someone's opinion. So how do you exactly determine who is a fake, when there is no 100% conclusive way to prove it anyway?

Even though I could see many facets of myself in the definition of Asperger's, I shied away from the notion for years. I thought maybe I was epileptic (temporal lobe epilepsy), mildly schizophrenic, weak-willed, just crazy, etc. etc.. It was only when my child was diagnosed with autism, and I began reading about the genetic nature of autism (that it runs in families), that I was finally willing to take the leap and see how much sense it made to apply this idea to myself. It also explained a slew of bizarre behaviors and traits I had as a child.

As far as "using" a diagnosis of high functioning autism to get pity or money... I don't know the exact numbers but in the US disability payments are a pittance (and VERY difficult to obtain-- you need not only a diagnosis but a recognition of disability from doctors working for the bureau, in other words, you could get the diagnosis but still be deemed fit to work), and in our elitist and judgmental culture, I see very little pity for people of any disability. In fact I see very little pity or compassion, in general, for anyone.



cas
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22 Mar 2008, 2:06 pm

If it's helpful for them to pretend to have autism, then it's helpful. I don't think there would be many people who do things that are socially unacceptable, personally unhelpful in any way, and voluntary. If they are behaving in one way that seems to be wrong, there's probably a reason for it. It's either serving a purpose or observers shouldn't assume so quickly that it is voluntary.

I worry if people are misrepresenting what autism is, but really if people are grasping for reasons to hate autism and autistic people they will find them, and if we can't tell definitely who has autism why invalidate someone's experience.

I don't see why it would be any harder to fake being autistic than it is to fake being NT, though. There are also a lot of intricacies and hard to grasp subtleties in NT behavior!

Danielismyname wrote:
all I cared for was objective accuracy, and saying I have either of the two via my own research isn't accurate, nor is it objective. I needed confirmation as whatever it was I had was severely affecting my life, and I needed to know what was wrong with me for there's treatment available for certain conditions, and if not, I can stop expecting certain things of myself if there's no chance that I could do certain things due to the [unknown] disorder I had.

I understand, but like Pithlet said doctors are not objective or definitely accurate, either. Even when it comes to objectively verifiable, completely physical conditions, they don't always think or decide to look in the right place, or if they do look see what's there. When the condition is even partly psychological, they rely so much on your own explanations, or your parents' explanations, or what they think you mean by what you say, that you nearly are diagnosing yourself by your words. They provide an outside view, and sometimes have experience with many other people with the proposed condition, but they are people with fixations and blind spots. I'd be more comfortable if doctors would listen less to what my parents said and what I say, and look for more tangible data.



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22 Mar 2008, 2:20 pm

I could see faking mild autism. If you did your stimming and obsessing and freaking out in private, not in public, like I do, but were able to detail it convincingly. I sound like a normal person when I talk to a psychiatrist - I don't sound weird until I'm supposed to goof around with other teenagers - I'm not real great at flirting, bantering, all that. I don't sound weird until after a while I get sick of everyone talking about boys or something and get urges to talk about my interests, so my response to something like "I think Mitt is so cute!" becomes "I thought Mitt Romney's speech on religion was entirely inappropriate for a supposedly secular society..." *dead silence* My symptoms are not apparent unless you spent every waking moment with me, and saw my anxiety, clumsiness, insomnia, obsessing, stimming, awkwardness, toe-walking, zoning out, all of that...which is easily hidden when speaking to a psychiatrist.



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22 Mar 2008, 2:40 pm

mikegee wrote:
Bopkasen wrote:
Brandon-J wrote:
Why would anybody want to fake being an aspie? It doesn't make any sense


Probably the infamous female astronaunt for one.

Lawyer used Asperger Syndrome as a defence excuse.


wow... i never considered that concept before. that's bizarre. i mean, if she really is an aspie, ok, understandable, but if it's faked as a criminal defense ploy, that's just plain shameful and inexcusable...

it's ironic that you used that as an example of an excuse, considering a lot of posts on this subject are suggesting that mentally ill people use aspergers as a mask for their mental illness. also, it can be said that some aspies could have mental illness that could be in part due to their having aspergers, and the difficulties in dealing with life, and also, that it is entirely possible that some aspies may also have mental illness non related to aspergers. there are so many variations on this concept that if you really think about it long enough, it can make your head spin! haha

by the way, has anyone else noticed this??? when you type aspergers in this forum, the spell checker points out that aspergers is mis-spelled??? what's up with that, wrong planet? how long must we wait for the word "aspergers" to be considered a legitimate word? many dictionaries dont even recognize it as a true word! example:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/aspergers

could this be a reason why NTs do not consider this a true condition? i wonder how many NTs hear about aspergers, go to dictionary.com, type the word, and think "oh, right, what a big liar, it's not even a word!"

makes ya think doesnt it??? i'm posting a new forum on this subject, i think its outrageous!

mike
http://www.myspace.com/mikegeorgemusic



I didn't say that Asperger Syndrome is an excuse for the unspeakable horror.

You know... there are some reading comprehesion problem I have when my emotion get interfered. Believe me... before we jump into any band wagon, I need to make one thing clear.

Asperger Syndrome is not an increase risk for murdering.

According to my research, if I were correct about OCD - Obsessive Compulsive Disorder which is the heart of all autism. See my YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N18YIkPq_bg

I believe that one man or woman who compulsively think about killing someone. Then I believe that OCD should be the mostly to blame instead of autism or Asperger Syndrome. Not everyone is perfect but the main thing we should focus on whether it was thought over and over til the point that the emotion break loose from judgement.

Dictator from different histories were more likely to be diagnosed as OCD rather than autism and Asperger.

According to the OCD explaination, it talk about compulsively cleaning cup and anything that have germ. I have examined Saddam Hussien's commentary and I say he a one of the candidate to have OCD. FBI gave him baby wipe which watch him using it to wipe cup like he was afraid of people's germ.

I could say the same for Stalin, I read about most of his closest man have to jump through hoop (figure of speech.. not literally) just to do what he said like using one finger like candle stick or making silly but horrorifying rule about not ripping his image on newspaper. You rip it, you get shot. Most people who stand and clap will clap almost forever until one man sit down. If you were the last person, you were told to keep clapping or you get shot. Didn't produce enough labour? Too bad... you get shot.

As for Hitler, many antiautism or antiasperger will use Hitler as a platform to slander and smear the reputation. Hitler is not autistic nor he have Asperger Syndrome, he would be more of a OCD. Judging from my research that he compulsively sent his best army division like the S.S. Waffen to the slaughter when he choosen NOT to retreat his force inspite of the death tolls when they were invading Russia. The S.S. Waffen were elite commando of the german army. The russian has put up a good fight and has kill most of the S.S. Waffen.

If that not compulsion than I don't know what is because compulsion can cause you to ignore warning, caution, gamble risk, etc.

I think what I said probably rest my case.



mikegee
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22 Mar 2008, 3:25 pm

i apologize; i misspoke, i didn't mean to say "excuse" as to infer an implied psychological legitimacy of her thoughts, plans or actions. I don't wish to condone such horrible actions, nor excuse her from the personal responsibility of her actions.

maybe this is beyond my scope of knowledge, so i stand corrected.

fascinating study of obsessive tyrants, by the way. intriguing...

mike
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sinsboldly
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22 Mar 2008, 3:29 pm

Whisperer wrote:

. . .I can't be arsed to prove I'm a nice guy to people making threads like this; especially when they can't even express their views if it's not behind the anonymousness of a new account.


how interesting you indulge in flame warriors! I have always thought this one was appropriate when dealing with you.

Merle
(who is not anonymous and throughly expects some measure of retaliation, because hey dude. . .that's what you do)



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22 Mar 2008, 3:42 pm

I thought we'd decided to ignore each other. . .
I'm sorry you are holding a grudge; I can't help you thou. . .
Take care, I guess. . .