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silentchaos
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30 Apr 2008, 10:02 am

I can relate to the plastic spoons,forks,etc , I hate washing dishes. I am a little curious about you being able to use a multi-tool while being unable to do a task that would seem to have less steps than opening and closing it. But i think i get what you are saying about the different pieces of bread and the executive problems. I doubt it is something that is easily explained so I will stop asking pointless questions. :)



Danielismyname
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30 Apr 2008, 10:14 am

Well, a multi-tool is a singular object that's stuck together [in the same way] ever since I first saw it; now hot chocolate for example, that involves many single objects that one has to actually put together--mug, microwave, water, chocolate, buttons, opening and closing, spoonfuls, etcetera, and all in a way that isn't set, compared to opening and closing something that's the same way each time.

Chaos and order is a good way to explain it too (what if I spill some chocolate, what if I make it too hot or cold, I then have to do more things; there's no control).



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30 Apr 2008, 10:28 am

Danielismyname wrote:
Well, a multi-tool is a singular object that's stuck together [in the same way] ever since I first saw it; now hot chocolate for example, that involves many single objects that one has to actually put together--mug, microwave, water, chocolate, buttons, opening and closing, spoonfuls, etcetera, and all in a way that isn't set, compared to opening and closing something that's the same way each time.

Chaos and order is a good way to explain it too (what if I spill some chocolate, what if I make it too hot or cold, I then have to do more things; there's no control).

What is the feeling you get when you try to do something complex? Anxiety? Fatigue? Nausea?


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CockneyRebel
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30 Apr 2008, 10:50 am

I'm also a pretty good cook. I can cook:

Eggs
Steak
Potatoes
Pasta
Hamburgers
Meatballs
Pre-packaged foods like Kraft Dinner and Rice a Roni
Pork chops
Meat loaf
Canned vegetables
Pizza
TV dinners
Hot dogs
Stir fry
Rice
Chicken


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Danielismyname
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30 Apr 2008, 10:57 am

Icheb wrote:
What is the feeling you get when you try to do something complex? Anxiety? Fatigue? Nausea?


Mental pain/discomfort. Kinda like the pain involved in sensory overstimulation.



AnnieDog
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30 Apr 2008, 11:57 am

Daniel: Thanks for putting such effort into describing your issue with sandwich-making. I've found it very interesting - especially the multi-tool versus hot chocolate example.

I didn't realize it, but I have made my kitchen has into a "whole". Everything has a place at all times. If my husband moves something, I usually have to stop until he puts it back. It's not that I can't move - but I just get all confused and have to stop because it's unsafe for me to work like that.

For the "brain pain" that goes with obsessing over spills, messes, and what if I leave the stove on, I had to tackle it a few ways.
Spills: I spill lots (motor issues), so I keep most of my food in spill-friendly containers. Plastic bowls half-full, plastic divided plates, etc.
Cuts: I've cut myself more than a few times. Some that needed stitches. I learned a few technique things from cooking shows so that I am less dangerous. I learned how to sew.
Leaving the stove on: Every time I leave the kitchen, I do a check: toaster, teapot, stove, sink, oven, fridge - I eyeball them to make sure they are set to "off". I used to have to touch each one.
Pressure: When I was younger, I wrote myself a program, with every. single. step. (Go to fridge, place hand on door, grip hand, open door...) It took me a while to write it out (days). Then I took a day off. Then I tried the instructions. I didn't eat what I made. The exercise was the making. It was a progression. Eventually I could cook for myself, then I could cook in a low-pressure setting, now I can cook for a dinner party off-recipe. After they leave, however, I go directly to bed - I am generally in borderline overload. (Guests are chaotic.)
And, as I mentioned earlier, I felt more comfortable when food became less of a mystery in itself.

-Anne


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SabbraCadabra
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30 Apr 2008, 1:54 pm

BelindatheNobody wrote:
I can never seem to make popcorn right, always burn it.


Try an air popper...you know it's done when it flies into the bowl =) Doing it on the stove isn't bad either, but you have to be really careful when the pot fills up and you go to empty it.



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30 Apr 2008, 9:20 pm

Danielismyname wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
You understand the principles involved.. thats evident. So where exactly is the trouble coming in? What is it about the process that causes you difficulty?


Physically starting each step; think of each step as if you were about to cut a finger off, and that shows how uncomfortable and impossible it is. It'd probably be possible for me to cut my fingers off, actually, in comparison to doing the aforementioned sandwich making.

O, and I also understand the principles of flight; this doesn't mean I can fly.

I still don't understand what's so exasperatingly complicated about pulling two slices of bread out off a loaf of bread, taking a few slices of your preferred lunch meat out of a packet of lunch meat, maybe adding a slice or two of cheese, and then some toppings or condiments. A baloney sandwich or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is about as easy as you can get.

To me, this seems more like learned helplessness or an unwillingness even to try.



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30 Apr 2008, 10:12 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
Danielismyname wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
You understand the principles involved.. thats evident. So where exactly is the trouble coming in? What is it about the process that causes you difficulty?


Physically starting each step; think of each step as if you were about to cut a finger off, and that shows how uncomfortable and impossible it is. It'd probably be possible for me to cut my fingers off, actually, in comparison to doing the aforementioned sandwich making.

O, and I also understand the principles of flight; this doesn't mean I can fly.

I still don't understand what's so exasperatingly complicated about pulling two slices of bread out off a loaf of bread, taking a few slices of your preferred lunch meat out of a packet of lunch meat, maybe adding a slice or two of cheese, and then some toppings or condiments. A baloney sandwich or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is about as easy as you can get.

To me, this seems more like learned helplessness or an unwillingness even to try.


NAW, let's be TOTALLY honest! The jelly has to be cold, or the bread can get wet!(Some use butter to prevent that, but I generally stay away from butter) The peanutbutter can't be too cold, and you can't do too much at once, or the bread could rip. :evil: Frankly, peanut butter and jelly is like the HARDEST sandwich to make. Of course, I am not saying it is hard, JUST that it is the hardEST! :wink:

BTW I SHOULD explain that with peanutbutter and jelly, my recipe is....

1. Place 2 slices of bread on a plate side by side.
2. Cover one slice of bread with cold jelly.
3. Cover the other with room temperature or cool peanutbutter.
4. Press the covered sides together.

Now baloney is EASY! I forget when I made my first baloney sandwich, but I DID make them as early as six, and I made them in a very precise way!

1. Place 2 slices of baloney on two slices of bread.
2. Smother the top baloney 100% with a thin, but full, covering of mustard.
3. Flip it over.
4. Smother the top baloney 100% with a thin, but full, covering of mustard.
5. Flip both slices of baloney over.
6. Smother the top baloney 100% with a thin, but full, covering of mustard.
7. Take the bread from the bottom, and put it on top.
8. Squeeze the sandwich evenly.

BTW for this, I prefer french's yellow mustard. My mother insisted on slicing, but I ate it any way with regard to that.

BTW That is the FIRST time I wrote down my EIGHT step baloney sandwich. YIKES! Still, the eight steps are simple and downright boring. I never skimped, but they are obvious and serve a purpose. I really just like baloney best with mustard.

BTW For TUNAFISH, I sliced up celery, and mixed it and mayonaise with the tunafish to taste. Slather on about half an inch on top of two slices of bread, and flip the bottom one over the tunafish on the other.

And YEAH, I STILL make them that way.



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30 Apr 2008, 10:22 pm

Danielismyname,

When I was younger, I would look at a piece of steak and grunt and moan until my mom would cut it up, deliberately cutting off all the fat, because it sickened me, and producing little bite size morsels for my little belly. So many years after she broke down and wouldn't cut my steak for me anymore, I'd take the unsavory portion and stick it under a rug, or in an ornamental shelf. Man oh man was she pissed the day she found my collection of uneaten meat. Total scare-o-rama. 8O

Thought you'd enjoy.



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30 Apr 2008, 10:32 pm

Averick wrote:
Danielismyname,

When I was younger, I would look at a piece of steak and grunt and moan until my mom would cut it up, deliberately cutting off all the fat, because it sickened me, and producing little bite size morsels for my little belly. So many years after she broke down and wouldn't cut my steak for me anymore, I'd take the unsavory portion and stick it under a rug, or in an ornamental shelf. Man oh man was she pissed the day she found my collection of uneaten meat. Total scare-o-rama. 8O

Thought you'd enjoy.


That sounds like a couple of cats I sat for once. They didn't like their owners being on vacation, and went UNDER the litter box!



Danielismyname
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30 Apr 2008, 10:52 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
To me, this seems more like learned helplessness or an unwillingness even to try.


It's called a lack of self-help skills for one's developmental level, which is completely distinct from one's level of cognitive functioning. It's an autism thing. Kinda like how someone with AS has their own deficits in social interaction that are distinct from their cognitive pattern.

Using your logic, one can say how come people with AS cannot interact "normally" and exhibit all of the nonverbal cues that they seem to lack? How hard is it to look at someone when you talk to them?



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30 Apr 2008, 11:09 pm

Danielismyname wrote:
NeantHumain wrote:
To me, this seems more like learned helplessness or an unwillingness even to try.


It's called a lack of self-help skills for one's developmental level, which is completely distinct from one's level of cognitive functioning. It's an autism thing. Kinda like how someone with AS has their own deficits in social interaction that are distinct from their cognitive pattern.

Using your logic, one can say how come people with AS cannot interact "normally" and exhibit all of the nonverbal cues that they seem to lack? How hard is it to look at someone when you talk to them?


They are like night and day. Eating is required to survive and simple and obvious. You have to satisfy YOURSELF! Social stuff isn't required to survive, is not so simple or obvious, and you have to satisfy someone ELSE. As for looking, etc? After I saw the way the "cooks" handled food where I ate this afternoon. I LITERALLY wanted to throw up.

Earlier I would have, and HAVE, STARVED rather than settling. I ended up eating it even though I wish the cook used the SAME attitude and care in handling the burger as he did everything else(He would then be in the hospital with MAJOR burns on his hands!)! I settled ONLY because to truly hold to the standards I once did, I would have little I could really eat.



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30 Apr 2008, 11:16 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
They are like night and day. Eating is required to survive and simple and obvious.


This isn't to do with eating, this is to do with preparing.

Not at all. One with such a severe impairment in social interaction that they cannot ask for food is putting their life in jeopardy if they are young, if they're old, they may just run into situations with law enforcement that are life threatening.

I can eat, I just cannot prepare anything that requires more than a few steps. Some people with ASDs can make eye contact, albeit it it'll be uncomfortable, others will never look at someone at all; this example transposes over everything with ASDs.

There's autistic individuals out there who cannot prepare anything due to autism, there's some who can get by with basic stuff, and there's some who find it difficult, but they can do most things.

Self-helps skills and social impairment are a part of ASDs. Some have both, others only the latter.

What of the autistic individuals that run into traffic without "care"? They're putting their life in danger, and there's adults with AS who have a high level of intelligence who do such.



pixie-bell
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01 May 2008, 7:06 am

I couldn't agree more.



DevonB
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01 May 2008, 11:18 am

Trust me, this isn't learned helplessness!! !

I am capable of cooking, and preparing large meals. However, there are times when I simply can't. It's this feeling of being unable to move, to think past the easiest tasks.

Similarly, there are times when I meltdown, rock and hit myself, and other times when I feel no need to do these things. It's part of the greater picture.

I have taught my son to do some simple food preparations based on picture charts. He can follow the pictographs and he's happy. Tell him to just do it...and he can't. It's just too much for him.