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katy_rome
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05 Mar 2018, 6:11 am

This is probably the wrong place to ask this! But maybe someone has an idea?
(note: I am ostensibly NT and I rock and/or flap when in extreme emotional distress... and foot-tap when nervous - but doesn't everyone?? :lol: )



EzraS
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05 Mar 2018, 8:12 am

It's not whatever movements that count, but what causes them. Like everyone sneezes, but there's sneezing because of allergies and sneezing because of a virus, and sneezing that's benign. Everyone stims (rocking, hand flapping, whatever), but not always for the same reason. The reason is what matters.



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05 Mar 2018, 11:36 am

Small kids can definitely flap when they're excited, and kids who lack stimuli can rock. We saw that kind of behavior in news reports from Romanian orphanages ca 1990. Kids sat rocking on benches and in their beds due to the extreme neglect.

Above a certain age, I think it takes fairly extreme circumstances for NTs to do either.


That's not to say that all of us do it though. I only rock when getting really into music, back and forth when sitting, sideways when standing.

I can remember flapping exactly once (very excited), but I wring my hands when I'm anxious. I also sometimes pace, although I did that more when I was younger. I also did it when I was thinking.


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arielhawksquill
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05 Mar 2018, 4:04 pm

NTs may flap in moments of extreme childlike delight or rock in moments of devastating trauma, but not in reaction to their normal day to day activities.



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05 Mar 2018, 7:13 pm

Sometimes I flap my hands when excited, but not excessively, and only around people I'm comfortable with.
Otherwise, I don't flap my hands.

I'm an Aspie with extreme anxiety disorder, but funnily enough I do not rock at all. I tried it once and it made me nauseas, like a motion sickness type of thing. But my mum knows an NT woman with cancer who rocks back and forth a lot when sitting, to deal with the anxiety and depression cancer can bring.

It is quite normal for NT toddlers to flap their hands or even rock.


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katy_rome
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06 Mar 2018, 8:11 am

EzraS wrote:
It's not whatever movements that count, but what causes them. Like everyone sneezes, but there's sneezing because of allergies and sneezing because of a virus, and sneezing that's benign. Everyone stims (rocking, hand flapping, whatever), but not always for the same reason. The reason is what matters.


And what's the reason if you are autistic?



katy_rome
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06 Mar 2018, 8:11 am

arielhawksquill wrote:
NTs may flap in moments of extreme childlike delight or rock in moments of devastating trauma, but not in reaction to their normal day to day activities.



This is really helpful, thanks for that. Makes sense.



katy_rome
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08 Mar 2018, 12:45 pm

arielhawksquill wrote:
NTs may flap in moments of extreme childlike delight or rock in moments of devastating trauma, but not in reaction to their normal day to day activities.


So if e.g. I notice that when I'm in a big department store - and have to wait for the checkout girl to go and ...check something out :) ... and I start tapping my foot, getting really nervous (the lighting, the noise, the people, something about the weirdness of that space), and then I start flapping, like one hand.. not so anyone would really notice, but involuntary... and stop. And start again.. getting more anxious. Something I never even knew I did but probably have been doing in such situations all the time.

I'm not autistic. I don't think. Suggestions anyone?



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10 Mar 2018, 2:45 am

In Temple Grandin's book, The Autistic Brain, she suggests that up to 20% of the population have some level of sensory integration difficulties. Obv only a small number of those would be autistic. Some people with ADHD also do similar things. I think that, as mentioned above, what is unusual with autism is the threshold for stress and what kinds of things are causing stress. E.g. my husband was helping me with housework earlier and he messed up my system and triggered me off, but only because his interruption meant I couldn't work out where I was up to and my brain went splat. I imagine shopping centers would be a place a lot of people would feel stressed, especially if they're not good at waiting (which is a human problem). I'm actually very good at waiting, as long as expectations are clear and I know what's happening (and I have my cone of silence (headphones) activated). It's when things change that I get stressed.

Flapping isn't something I've seen adult NTs do. My mum rocks to go to sleep, but I think she has a level of sensory integration difficulty (def NT though). Foot tapping is fairly ubiquitous (IMO).


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katy_rome
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11 Mar 2018, 2:41 pm

plokijuh wrote:
In Temple Grandin's book, The Autistic Brain, she suggests that up to 20% of the population have some level of sensory integration difficulties. Obv only a small number of those would be autistic. Some people with ADHD also do similar things. I think that, as mentioned above, what is unusual with autism is the threshold for stress and what kinds of things are causing stress. E.g. my husband was helping me with housework earlier and he messed up my system and triggered me off, but only because his interruption meant I couldn't work out where I was up to and my brain went splat. I imagine shopping centers would be a place a lot of people would feel stressed, especially if they're not good at waiting (which is a human problem). I'm actually very good at waiting, as long as expectations are clear and I know what's happening (and I have my cone of silence (headphones) activated). It's when things change that I get stressed.

Flapping isn't something I've seen adult NTs do. My mum rocks to go to sleep, but I think she has a level of sensory integration difficulty (def NT though). Foot tapping is fairly ubiquitous (IMO).


That all really makes sense to me.
I have the same.
I love your bit 'my brain went splat'... sounds so familiar :?



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11 Mar 2018, 3:01 pm

Yep....NT's "rock" all the time.

As for "flapping": probably not so often, since one has to have really flexible wrists to truly "flap" in the stereotypical "autistic" manner. If I flapped all the time like that, my wrist would be killing me now!



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11 Mar 2018, 3:51 pm

For a second there I misread the thread subject as "Do NTs rock and fap too?" :oops: :lol:



soloha
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11 Mar 2018, 4:06 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep....NT's "rock" all the time.

As for "flapping": probably not so often, since one has to have really flexible wrists to truly "flap" in the stereotypical "autistic" manner. If I flapped all the time like that, my wrist would be killing me now!

I'm not talking about the rocking to music kind of rocking but I have been led to understand rocking in adults, when not caused by Autism, was either the result of extreme emotional distress or inductive of some mental "disorder". Rocking isn't supposed to be normal for an NT at all.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psycho ... uble%3famp

What kind of rocking are we talking about?



kraftiekortie
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11 Mar 2018, 4:22 pm

The rocking you mentioned above, plus maybe "nervous" rocking. Or just rocking for comfort (like autistic people do).

Think about it: why are "rocking chairs" so popular?



katy_rome
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25 Mar 2018, 6:28 am

soloha wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep....NT's "rock" all the time.

As for "flapping": probably not so often, since one has to have really flexible wrists to truly "flap" in the stereotypical "autistic" manner. If I flapped all the time like that, my wrist would be killing me now!

I'm not talking about the rocking to music kind of rocking but I have been led to understand rocking in adults, when not caused by Autism, was either the result of extreme emotional distress or inductive of some mental "disorder". Rocking isn't supposed to be normal for an NT at all.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psycho ... uble%3famp

What kind of rocking are we talking about?


This is really helpful. Great article! I've linked to it from the article I'm writing.

Well my theory is that autistic rocking/flapping.. foot-tapping, hair-twiddling (ooh that's me alright - I've got straight hair with one 'curl' normally, where I twiddled it so much).. all that stuff is just due to the same cause as autistics.

The more I learn, the more I think autism is about intergenerational trauma (epigenetics) so hypersensivity leading to exposure to further trauma... that's why the symptoms are identical to CPTSD. Ahhh because they have the same cause, there's a neat little explanation.
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