Aspies and language use!!

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גם לי יש בעייה עם הקטע של גלגולים קודמים אבל אולי זה בגלל שאני עובד יותר מיד שנים כמהנדס וגדלתי בקיבוץ מרכסיסטי שעוצב על ידי יקים פנאטים כי הדברים שאת כותבת פשוט מצלצלים לי בכל החושים ואחרי כל כך הרבה שנים שבהן לא מצאתי שום הסבר ללמה החיים שלי כל כך מטורפים וכל מי שרואה אותי אומר שנולדתי בגינת כרובים אולי הגיע הזמן להיכנע קצת לדברים פחות סבירים ביחוד שזה יכול להסביר גם למה אנשים כמוני וכמוך נחשבו תמיד למאוד מרדנים אם לא מטורפים בגלל שחוויות הצטברו מהמון גלגולים טבען שידגישו תבניות ויעוררו נטיה להפשטות וערנות ליחסיות ולזמניות של דברים שנראים לאחרים כמוצקים וגם יש לי את התאבון המטורף הזה שאין לי עליו שום שליטה והכניס אותי בעבר להמון צרות לחוות,לראות ולדעת הכל שאם ירשו לי הייתי מעדיף לקרוא לו פשוט כמיהה ומילדותי עד היום אני שוכב כל לילה עם עיניים קרועות כשאלפי וולטים מפוצצים לי את הנשמה באין סוף תמונות שמצטרפות לתבניות שגורמות לי שמחה כל כך גדולה שאני חושב שאני ממש משוגע.

hope your browser can display Hebrew
any way, this is a typical post in our forum,
it is a one phrase post with no punctuation,
still, it covers a lot of info and include past,present and future references and deals with personal,mystical and psychological matters .

Sometime i think Hebrew was invented by auties,
it is not as objective and dry as the western languages but have none of the warmth and colors of the more subjective eastern languages and the words link the symbolic to the the sensual in a way which aut' might find interesting,
for instance,
the words for meaning,purpose and hearing come from the same root.
i feel that the connection between language and autism deserve much more than a mere forensic analysis as the subject of sound and words touches the most fundamental aspects of autism,such as:
sensitivity to the contradiction between the auditory and the visual channels,
any language is a foreign language to us,
many of us don't get double meaning,irony or sarcasm.
unique sense of time and space which leave us skinless in today society,
our love of music ans sensitivity to light,
it is all come from the mysterious connection between sound,space and identity.

many autistic people stutter and/or have long pauses and words and can phrase things in a heavily formal and structured way of saying things.

saw the OP's vid in the past, some of my comments are on there; one of the things I mentioned (unrelated) is that 'cartoons' isn't cehildish; well more accurately you can be older and lik cartoons. ESPECIALLLY anime (Different animation style)

Lab Pet likes nara44's Hebrew! Very astute 'catch' with a connection to autism - math is the language of science and has an elegance as well. nara44: I started a new thread to-be forum topic and asked WP moderators about making this a permanent feature (for non-verbals) - sinsboldy moved this into the Haven. You're contribution would be appreciated, and print your Hebrew. I understand Hebrew is closer to math than most other languages.

Etoile_Estrella: Forensics is very much like putting together puzzle pieces, yes? I read autistic writing/expression every day and there is a distinction between Autist writing and NT writing for certain. For instance, I knew from OP you're NT. This might be a real research topic for you! One of my grad professors (for my masters) was on my committee; she is actually an environmental scientist and more into policy, etc. Therefore she isn't as versed in 'hard science' but I chose her for my committee since I admired her writing style (very different from my own) and her intuition, which I lack. Plus she's just really smart...and literary. She commented on my writings for her class with curiosity. She would ask, "What is THAT quality?" Then she told me she 'found' it: Apparently my writing, especially the formal writing, is written in what is known as Poetic Rythym with a beat, much like rap music. Then, independently, my doctor for whom I wrote quite a lot, noted the same thing. My male friend is a poet (by college degree, and has published); he said the same and has read some posts on WP and related that Autists uniformly write in this format. I am conscientious about always using Parallel Writing, which is key to writing science journal or a thesis, for example. I basically write as a tech manual.

You might want to listen to Dr. Temple Grandin speak - WOW! Temple has expertise in autism and she's a HFA. She is a professor and lectures - you can listen to her on YouTube, if you're curious. Not just her message but her delivery. The individual you listened to on YouTube is an Aspie.

My speech.....sigh. I have a nice voice, so I'm told. My NT mother was a singer and my voice quality is much like hers. But I think I may speak like a child and often mix-up pronouns. To offset this I usually just point instead or even draw the object, phenomena. My male-friend said he does like my speech since I get excited like a child. I teach chem lab session where I DO speak. The students are there to learn so the focus is on the science and this my forte. I have everything written on the whiteboard beforehand too since I could not ever speak extemporaneously. The Lab Safety Officer 'caught' me saying in my lecture, "Let's pretend this anion were to switch charge, then....."

Emoticons are odd, true. Those on WP have written about emoticons....quite some time ago I began a thread on emoticons. WP has the feature where user can hold the cursor over the emoticon and the associated explanatory word appears. Otherwise, I would be really lost. Still have no clue what the smurf emoticon means:
WP might be fruitful grounds for you to explore our way of expression.

Etoile_Estrella,

Science IS supposed to be EXACT! Things are ALWAYS supposed to be the SAME, and definable! Water ALWAYS boils at EXACTLY the same temperature! If it fails to boil at such a temperature, some assumption is faulty, such as pressure, surface area, conductivity, ambient temperature.

Of course, there are ALWAYS unknowns but, as a science progresses, they are taken into account. A good example is the idea of planes having a problem going over a certain speed, so wings were swept back, or stability so controls were changed, etc... Still, the basic concept hasn't changed, and the old planes still fly as designed.

HECK, the old COB/COP idea was overlooked because newer planes have such a WIDE tolerance now. STILL, the FAA found that ENOUGH planes CRASHED because of such oversight, that it is now controlled just like it was in the first few decades of flight!(If you get your seat changed, and find that your previous seat is empty, and you hear about "weight and balance issues", you now know WHY!) And take it from someone that has some experience in it, you do NOT want to overlook it in model rocket design!

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo,

Can't you modulate your voice to improve it?

Lab pet,

It is a shame that we may never hear you speak.

Maybe sometime one could record my voice to be accessible on WP - should be doable. I have many photos posted, so why not?

Re: Science: Precisely. There are givens in science else there would be no scientific method, not to mention the very fabric of our universe.

The 'soft sciences' ideally should have structure and construct but no real semblence to 'hard science,' which is my realm.

Funny thing is I have tried that before and recorded my efforts. Even when I think I am speaking in a well modulated way I am not. I just sound whiney and nasally. I think I have a very annoying voice. Other people have said it's annoying and whiney too. But, thanks for the advice.

To be fair, though, people have also complimented me on my voice so I go by what I think of it and I can't stand listening to it.

Does anyone on the forum dislike the sound of their own voice or am I just being my weird self?

If I recall correctly the way you hear your voice is mainly vibrations transmitted through your jaw bone so it sounds much different to you compared to what other people actually hear. I personally dislike listening to recordings of my own voice.

Interesting thread!

Besides my stuttering, my speech is actually very "normal" except for one thing, I rarely use slang. My speech oddities are mostly dialectal, stemming from my fairly strong Upper-Midwestern American English accent and dialect. the most obvious thing people from other parts of the US would notice about my speech is that that the "ei" double-vowel sound in "day" and the "ou" double-vowel sound in "boat" are smoothed out into single vowels, so they sound like "deeeeh" and "booooht" A good example of this is how former MN governor Jesse Ventura says Minnesota as "Minne-SOOOOH--ta"

I believe many internet forums have that.

Suuuch an interesting convo! Sorry I've been MIA; I haven't had internet for a week.

I just want to point out one quick thing about science - no, none of it is exact, because all of our "knowledge" is based on the perceptions of our senses, which are inherently flawed, and which have been proven time and time again to mislead us. So there really is no exact way to know the truth; however, we can approximate it based on the fact that others have similar experiences and that we seem to have the same experience over and over (water boiling at a certain temp and pressure, for example). But with any inductive reasoning, which is all science, there is always a measure of doubt.

Deductive logic doesn't work that way, so most math and a lot of philosophy are solid.

HOW do you figure philosophy is so solid? And YEP, science isn't 100% exact. I said so myself! It IS exact given all the assumptions made though. That makes it pretty precise. MAYBE electrons aren't what they seem, but all the laws applied to them work as they have been expected. Maybe magnetic fields DON'T affect them, but magnetic fields used in all current applications work accordingly. Water's boiling point isn't consistent, but it is consistent enough at a given air pressure. Eggs don't have the same protien content, but it is close enough.

Philosophers are notorious for being solipsists. You are on the right track with math. Mathematical equations are the way to go. If you could take your study of Aspie/Forensic Linguistics and translate it into a mathematical equation thus leading to a Grand Linguistic Unification Theory, not only might you earn your PhD, you might also win a Nobel Prize!

Lab Pet shall not go into much detail since I am not too familiar with this 'theory,' but it may of interest to you, Etoile_Estrella: The Neanderthal Theory of Autism. True, this is highly subjective and I draw no conclusions and am pragmatic.

But, in sum, this Neanderthal Theory (autism) states that, via our mitochrondrial DNA, we all have latent Neanderthal genetic links...well, yes. However, those with autism have this genetic lineage (introns) in further dominance. Please know Neanderthals, who did breed with Homo Sapiens, were very intelligent and curious beings. There is a touching image of one Neanderthal man who had, presumably, been in a landslide and he and his dog were killed. The other Neanderthals salved their bodies and buried them with the man posed on his side, curled around his dog - anthropologists purport this is love; there were flowers placed in a circle around their bodies and they were linked since the dog's head was rested against the Neanderthal man's chest. Anyway, Neanderthal's, as best, had limited speech. But big brains. Surmised they lacked the 'forward thinking' and aggressive demeanor of Homo Sapiens. Neanderthals were considered 'thinking beings' but may have lacked coherency in social interaction (lack of speech, etc). Again, I do not even pretend to know and I'm merely reiterating what I know of this undeveloped theory. I suspect, at best, this theory has parts of truth but most is merely conjecture. Not my field - just a curiosity. I know you're interested in speech patterns, this is a lead! (Theory? More like hypothesis.....).

About science: I am a scientist to the core of my being. Remember that even Gravity is 'just a theory!' Yet we all know gravity does in fact exist and follows hard rules on this planet! Even Atomic Theory if 'just a theory!' Theory if truth-based and suggests strong coherence! Hypothesis comes first, theory follows after when KNOWN. Humankind has NO bearing at all on science - science exists regardless of our existence! I.E. Science does not care we exist and follows it's own fractal intricate pattern. We can OBSERVE the pieces, true, but the scientific method is elegant in parsimony, which is WHY it is valid. We can know by extrapolation and deduction alone is of no bearing. Science exists and is self-defined.

2ukenkerl & I are in agreement with this. And others.

If only that were possible! I know enough about languages to know it ISN'T! Languages have no real constant. Even languages in the same group(I have a fair knowledge of over 6 languages, and 3 languages I know ARE in the same group), don't even have the same structures. EVEN with the same SIMPLE structure, and words that mean the same(according to the dictionary), SIMPLE sentences may have a different meaning EVEN when the are closely related. If not for the fact that context usually gives it away, even many native speakers might be lost. Context may be over the span of several sentences though.

As for solipsists? Have you looked at Zhuangzi lately!?!?