Aspergers and social skills

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Okay, let's take my little brother (who has aspegers), this guy sits in his room playing MMORPGS all day long, a complete waste of time, he will never get to the end, it's practically impossible, he will undoubtedly become bored at some stage, and thousands upon thousands of hours will have been wasted on a waste of time. I ask him, why do you bother with it? He tells me it brings him enjoyment. I played the same RPG game to see how enjoyable it was, there are little quests that might spark a bit of curiosity and whatnot but on a whole, it's doing the same thing over and over and over and over, and that to me is far from enjoyable. Anyway, in 5 years he'll be an adult, but he will also be completely and utterly socially inadequate. Could he put that down to his aspergers?

If you locked someone in a room for the best part of their adolesent life, and let's say they are perfectly NT, are they going to come out a Mr or Mrs personality? Great social skills, great conversation skills, great humour and wit? No, they would be in the same position as my brother. The reason being, they haven't had the opportunity to develop their social skills. My brother will probably have to spend a year or two in some Autism college just to learn how to behave in the workplace, let a lone in a social situation. Lots of aspergers sufferers isolate themselves from society, never wanting to go out or take part in anything, end up lonely and depressed, and put their lack of social skills down to their condition, which indirectly may be true, but how were they ever supposed to develop any social skills if they spend their time locked away? I mean, sometimes to grow as people we have to put ourselves in situations we might not like, move out of our comfort zone, we are entitled to make mistakes and be embarrassed, everyone goes through this, not just people on the autistic spectrum.

Let's take the kind of smooth guys and girls who can talk the talk. A "player" for want of a better word. I know guys who can walk into a nightclub, find the best looking girl and end up having sex with her in the club, guys who don't necessarily have looks to bedazzle, guys who don't necessarily have anything to go on other than what comes out of their mouth. Guys like that had to suffer 2 or 3 hundred slaps and spits and humiliating experiences over and over until they finally got it down to a fine art. It didn't come natural, and these kinds of social skills don't, they take practice and balls of steel. It's never easy, I could have never gone on my first date, I wouldn't have had to worry about if I might say the wrong thing, I wouldn't have had to worry about being nervous, I could have just sat at home and been completely safe, but where would that have got me? If my little brother spends the next 5 years out and about with his friends, and around girls, and doing things that most young people do, are you telling me that he would still be the same social freak as he would be if he'd have spent the same time locked in his room?

I am purposely ignoring "social freak" for now.

If you really want to help your brother, and I truly think you do, find out what AS really is all about, preferably from his point of view. If your brother is still in school, that's very stressful. Far more than you may realize. He likely needs lots of downtime, which is why he plays video games. The social settings that seem fun to you are torture to him. Not fun.

AS is a neurological difficulty that impacts social relationships. Exposure to social situations of the right type might help, but parties, bars and the like may never be your bro's thing. One on one encounters might help. Or maybe not. Your bro is not going to pick up on the social cues that you and other NT's get by exposure. It's not in the wiring. The usual techniques of name calling, ridicule and humiliation that pass for social training are counterproductive. They only lead to anxiety and depression, which leads to more isolation.

You'll go a long way toward helping your brother by accepting him as he is, not by trying to make him more like you.

You're right and (as often in such cases) wrong at same time.

Yes: To hide totally will make things worse for your brother. Wasting his time with computer games isn't the great thing to do. Maybe you could get him to write his own MMPORG (or try at least), so he could develop some skills.

But: The world is different for Aspies. There are some social skills that can be learned, but there are other things, that we can't overcome that easily. Ignoring that will make it hard for you to understand and help your brother (What I think you want to do)
There are many issues that come with being an Aspie. Take the eye contact thing (Aspies not having it) as an example. It's just a small thing, but somehow it can kill conversations. To some extend in can be learned, even if we never really like to look into peoples eyes (don't know why, just feels uncomfortable), but it never becomes natural. Same for many other details. Problem is not so much, that we can't do them at all, but we do them wrong and people thing we are weird or whatever.
It's sometimes like being blind (eg for body language), but people can't see that we are blind and expect us to see. But it's not possible for us.

So try to get him away from those games and hanging around in his room all the time, but don't force him into parties or other activities of that kind. Try to make him do something useful, where he can get interested in as a first step. maybe get some skills (like programming) that are erspected by at least some other people.

Also, your brother may or may not, depending on his personality, be willing to compromise his personal integrity by being the player-type, if you know what I mean. Since it's no doubt difficult if not impossible for him to attain the same level of social success without intellectually mastering every individual aspect of sociallization, along the way it's likely he'll consciously realize certain aspects of being a player can be hurtful to others. If he had learned social skills automatically and with no conscious thought, he might not be confronted with this dilemna, but as it is, his conscience and integrity will likely be agitated every time he goes through this and other normally thoughtless motions.

Chances are, if your brother comes that far, he already has at least some form of self-assured basis of bravery.

Last edited by CMaximus on 17 Sep 2008, 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You know, I'd much rather play computer games in my room than attempt to woo females at a nightclub (I'd much rather fail at such than be successful in regards to said wooing). Shooting up North Koreans is infinitely more fun to me.

There's this saying, to each their own and all.

Of note, people learn most of their social behaviour in the early years of life, not in their adolescent/young adult years. All of the nonverbal cues they recognize; the boundaries, the give and take of social and emotional interaction, what's socially acceptable, etcetera, all is learnt when young, and this transposes over the later years. Now, someone with an ASD is unable to learn this above in the same and innate way as everyone else, as they lack the ability to; like someone who's blind can't learn to see like everyone else. With intelligence, they may be able to figure out some things, like when it's one's turn to talk, certain phrases to say that are socially acceptable [via trial and error], figuring out the best balance of pain and "normality" with eye contact, and other misc. stuff, but it'll still be nowhere near as good as the "normal" people, as they can see. You say this doesn't come naturally for "normal" people; did your sight come naturally?

Give your brother some credit, as he's failed far more times than the people with "balls of steel" will ever experience, for he's blind.

Yes, socializing is stressful, but you don't want to force him to socialize. Maybe he could play video games or play MMORPG's with friends: I've always found this to be a great means of socializing without all the awkward silences, because his and his friend's energy will be more directed to playing the game. Has he been in any social skills groups for people with Autism or AS? Maybe that will help him. It's stressful to put an Aspie into a social atmosphere all on their own: from my experience, doing so can be traumatizing. It's good to gradually expose him to that sort of stuff.

Of course, socializing isn't entirely necessary: though it does help with self-esteem, it's very stressful for an Aspie; I have to worry constantly about saying the right thing, what my body language is saying for me, and what the social norms are for every single phrase I say to someone. With experience, he will learn, but it's important to not force him to socialize when he doesn't want to.

If he isn't enrolled in any social skills groups, maybe you can help him practice by striking up conversations with him about topics that interest him; this will give him an opportunity to "practice" socializing. It won't necessarily make him as socially adept as the average person his age, but it will help him get on the right path.

Maybe to start, bring others into his interest/world, and let him go approach the rest of the social world at large if and when he's prepared and wants to do it for himself.

Video games are so much easier than dealing with real life. They are fun, even if repetitive.
When you lose or don't do well on a video game, you can go back and try the level again. In real life, losing hurts for real. Chances for a second chance are usually slim.
Being accepted by others is difficult in real life. Not so in the games, a player really has to do bad things to not be accepted.
Try to be understanding that people need to receive rewards to have positive feelings, and games give them to him. Real life usually does not give them to Aspies. Aspies get a lot of negatives instead (rejection and humiliation come to mind easily).
Your brother may feel completely different from what I wrote.

Often isolating oneself and playing video games are the result of poor interaction instead of the other way around.

Don't make him do what he doesn't want to. You're his brother. Do you want him to be happy? Or do you just want him to be less "embarrassing"?

I play a number of online games myself. It's my down time from having to deal with people during the day. I can socialise with people who have similar interests (otherwise they wouldn't be playing the same game ^.^) without having to go through the stress of reading their body language. And it *is* stressful. When I was at school I spent 30-40 minutes every day afterwards just staring blankly at a TV as my down time, just because I had to survive dealing with people all day. It didn't even need to be on, just needed to be there. Then CLICK, I was OK and interested in what was around me again.

I am still bad at eye contact, but I can fake it by looking at the tips of peoples noses. They don't notice as long as I am not too close up, and I don't freak out at the eye contact. I can see when someone is angry, or sad or happy, but not on the fly during a conversation unless I take time out to observe and talk slow. It's is a completely learned skill. Next to none of it is wired in intuition, and in a stressful situation, I cannot read someone. At all. They may as well be the Stay-Puff Marshmellow Man for all the body language I can read off them if I am caught off guard.

I rarely go out, and when I do it's usually to observe other people rather than participate. Or to feel big bass speakers go THUMP. Love the feeling as the vibration passes through me. I do not go out to talk to other people. I am not adverse to the idea, but it is not why I go out, and I rarely start a conversation. I certainly don't go out to 'chase tail' or 'score'. Just not interested. I have relationships when *I* am damned well ready, not when anyone else thinks I should. Trust me, I am *not* shy. If I am interested in someone, I will just tell them. If they can't handle that or want to play a whole pile of confusing games, then it is better I learn that early rather than end up burning myself out in a relationship that just is not right for me a few months down the track. And on the flip side, it's better that *THEY* learn early that I am very direct and incorruptably honest up front, so they don't burn out a few months down the track. I have been described as honest, increadibly funny, and three steps sideways of reality. I must admit, I like that last one.

Not everyones lifestyle I am well aware, but I am content. I spend my time either working (IT and computers for the win!), winding down, or learning about whatever happens to interest me at the time. I am not held to other peoples ideals as they just do not interest me and I can make up my own damned mind. I have few friends, but they are good ones who I actually enjoy spending time with just being myself without stressing out, and without stressing them out. To me, this is a good life. I am well aware that for others, they would consider it Hell on Earth.

Just be there for your brother. If you are really worried about *him* and want to help teach him about social skills because you want to help him understand how to get by in the "Real World" (which is surprisingly imaginary when you poke it with a big enough stick) then encourage (do not force!) him to go out to *small* relitivly quiet and relaxed gatherings and support him. Give him (in private) advice. Tell him in when he's accidentally insulted someone, how to know he's insulted someone, and how to correct it. Explain that someone didn't insult him and was actually trying to joke around and be social. Explain when someone was just actually being a prick. Hell, read up on body language yourself so you know what to point out. Do NOT throw him in the deep end of a 500 person loud party as he will learn nothing other than it was BAD, and will likely either shut down, melt down or just plain run. Trust me, coming out of a shut/melt down requires those "balls of steel" you mentioned, and personally I will do damn near anything to avoid them (to the point of resigning from a job, skipping to another city and starting a new life to get away from something thats stressing me out and can't be changed). If it becomes too much for him (he will know himself) then thats it. If he wants to go, go. If he wants to take time out, make sure he's OK and if need be help him find a quiet place to calm down. He may be interested in returning after 10-20 mins. Forcing him to stay will be completely counter productive, and potentially disasterous. Melting down person is not pretty, can be highly unpredicable, and near impossible to calm down short of removing from the area to a nice quiet spot. And for all that, is much much worse for the poor bastard going through it than anyone else. It can take days to regain a proper sense of normal self, days in which you are much closer to that nasty point. And yes, it can end up as a chain reaction so you end up spending a whole week melting/shutting down on a regular basis just because of little things, and those weeks are HELL.

That said, if he gets to the point he is comfortable in a small gathering you can encourage him to work up to larger ones if he is interested, but they just may never be his thing.

Well as awful as that may sound, yes, I am embarrased by him. People in the social circles I know don't have time or patience for people with difficulties like him, and neither do I. I guess he is what he is and there's nothing I can do or say to change that, maybe social interaction wouldn't do him any favours.

I grew up in a world devoid of video games! Hard to believe, I know! They just didn't exist when I was a kid. My version was books, tons of them. I read constantly. Same result though....I was socially inept. However, I was that way before I started reading, so I don't think the books caused it. Actually, I enjoyed the books (my parents thought it was a waste of time also!). Truth is, I learned plenty about humans & their behaviors through the books. I actually preferred living through the characters in the stories I read vs living/dealing with people who had no basic understanding of me & had different expectations for me.

I never got into hanging out at parties, bars, discos, or the like. I just didn't care for it. I don't think you can change your brother's wiring by taking away the video game, nor will you change him by telling him it's a waste of time. Just the opposite could happen, that it drives him deeper into it.

Well you don't HAVE to invite him out to any events. It sounds like, for now, he's fine by himself.

Problem is, yes, it's NOT good to play video games constantly, and neglect things like personal care, education, or work.

But at your brother's age (13, I assume), think about it from his point of view, does he particularily WANT to hang out with his peers? His peers being, middle school kids.

Take it from me, for kids with Aspergers, middle school is a living hell. The idea being, people with AS don't really care about social heirarchies at this age. But everyone else really does. The people who aren't interested in "playing the game" quickly fall to the bottom of the heirarchy. In fact, effective social communication between kids with AS, and the majority of NT kids isn't really even possible until Grades 10, 11, 12, when most of the NT kids have grown out of the "OMG, liek, WHAT is she wearing?!?!", and "Hur Hur Hur, UR gay" phase.

Think about how most kids behaved when YOU were in middle school. Would YOU want to hang out with them?

So, let your brother play his games. If he's still doing that by age 16 and 17, then let us know. Just never expect him to be Mr. Popular.

Sadly, in most cases NT kids will not grow out of their "OMG, liek, WHAT is she wearing?!?!", and "Hur Hur Hur, UR gay" phase until college. Even then, you'll still have the 10% that still will not grow out of that phase.

Well, a good amount of the boys lagged behind. But people just got more friendly around Grade 10 in my area. Even if a few of them were a bit dumb. There is probably a difference between suburban Canada and America, though.

Now now now. Don't be so judgmental. It might seem like a complete waste of time to you but playing MMORPGS all day might be your brother's way of coping psychologically.
It's not what you would do but not everyone's same, right? I do a lot of things independently that seem pointless but they give my brain this feeling of coping or something, I can't explain, just always been like that.
Usually what I need to do is write something but I have had other interests before, not just writing. Give the man his space.