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MissConstrue
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16 Oct 2008, 2:20 am

Unknown_Quantity wrote:
I don't know if AS is the new gay.

I've had a few gay friends and I've always felt very comfortable around them like we share something, maybe it's our shared outer-ness.

I think it's easier to have Asperger's. You don't have (as many) people saying you chose this lifestyle for yourself. There's nothing in the Bible about Aspies. And we can get married everywhere (as far as I know).

Downside is we actually dress worse than other people most of the time. :wink:


I don't know, I think it can go both ways. There's ppl out there that think that the symptoms of AS can be cure by a strict regime. Now part of that might be true to some extension in terms of some social etiquette but I myself have never really accomplished that as something coming out naturally.

I think it's the same for anyone in the LGBTQ community. Just as they haven't found a gene that causes AS neither have they for those who are of a different sexual orientation. So I guess the only assumption one has to make for this "unnatural" preference is that they chose their lifestyle and it's against the bible...hypocritical though if you think about all the other things that're a sin from that "holy" book IMO.


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NocturnalQuilter
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16 Oct 2008, 2:24 am

WurdBendur wrote:
Of course, opinions really can't be wrong. They can only be unhelpful. Your example actually demonstrates the real problem that often goes unnoticed: too many people don't understand the difference between fact and opinion. The second clause is after all a factual statement, though a false one. When understood that way, we see that the only part that is opinion is "All people should starve". You could say it's "wrong" because it's based an incorrect statement, but that's not a meaningful assertion. By definition, an opinion can't be evaluated in terms of true or false because it isn't making a factual claim, but only in a subjective manner as right/wrong, just/unjust, good/bad, etc.

Let me put it this way: An opinion doesn't tell you anything about the topic. The only information it conveys is one's feelings about the topic. As such it is an expression, not a claim, and contains no useful information.


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PhR33kY
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16 Oct 2008, 3:13 am

Katie_WPG wrote:
Two-spirited refers to gay Aboriginals.


The logic of that utterly confounds me.



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16 Oct 2008, 7:25 am

WurdBendur wrote:
Triangular_Trees wrote:
All people should starve, as there is no connection between eating and staying alive.


And I'm right, because after all, thats my opinion, and opinions can't be wrong :wink:


Of course, opinions really can't be wrong. They can only be unhelpful. Your example actually demonstrates the real problem that often goes unnoticed: too many people don't understand the difference between fact and opinion. The second clause is after all a factual statement, though a false one. When understood that way, we see that the only part that is opinion is "All people should starve". You could say it's "wrong" because it's based an incorrect statement, but that's not a meaningful assertion. By definition, an opinion can't be evaluated in terms of true or false because it isn't making a factual claim, but only in a subjective manner as right/wrong, just/unjust, good/bad, etc.

Let me put it this way: An opinion doesn't tell you anything about the topic. The only information it conveys is one's feelings about the topic. As such it is an expression, not a claim, and contains no useful information.


No, opinions can be about factual type things. Especially in the area of things we haven't figured out yet. The word opinion is the correct word for what one thinks the facts are. (And sometimes we use the word feels... what one feels the facts are.) Yes, someone can have the opinion that there's no connection between eating and staying alive. It's the opinion, looking at the data, that that's what the data shows. And occasionally, as in this example, we can say such an opinion is flat out wrong.



WurdBendur
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16 Oct 2008, 4:23 pm

MR wrote:
No, opinions can be about factual type things. Especially in the area of things we haven't figured out yet. The word opinion is the correct word for what one thinks the facts are. (And sometimes we use the word feels... what one feels the facts are.) Yes, someone can have the opinion that there's no connection between eating and staying alive. It's the opinion, looking at the data, that that's what the data shows. And occasionally, as in this example, we can say such an opinion is flat out wrong.


I would call that a belief. If someone has the facts wrong, it's still just bad data. And if the data is good, then something is wrong with the approach. The laws of the universe probably work the same way pretty much everywhere, so the same data should lead to the same conclusions if we're understanding it correctly. And again, if it's testable, it's not really an opinion per se. But I'm not going to argue epistemology, because that will never end.


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16 Oct 2008, 4:38 pm

Technically, every statement has a truth-value; that includes statements of opinion.

The difference between fact and opinion is that fact is something that's true or false for everyone. Unfortunately, the validity of many facts is not known, and perhaps is unknowable. Examples of statements of fact: "The Earth is round." "God exists." "The moon is made of green cheese." Either true or false, but true or false for everyone.

Opinions are statements about your own mental status. They are always true, but they are only true of the person who says them because they are statements that concern only that one person's experiences. For example, "I believe God exists." (This is true regardless of whether God exists because the statement is about your belief, rather than the underlying fact.) Or, "Coffee tastes better than tea." In that statement, the belief is implied, because nobody else can step into your mind to taste what you are tasting and evaluate your preference for coffee over tea. The experience of preferring one taste to another is an individual experience.

It's also possible to make factual statements about opinions. For example, "Most people think coffee tastes better than tea." That is true or false (just survey everyone in the world to get the answer) whether you yourself prefer coffee or tea.

In response to a statement about belief in the truth or falsehood of a fact (example: "I believe God exists"), the logical response is not "You are wrong", unless the person is for some reason lying about believing in God, but "I disagree with you." That is, your opinion about the truth or falsehood of the fact is different from his. The fact still has an independent truth value; but technically, a statement of belief is always true--though only for the person who says it.

Hope that made sense.


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release_the_bats
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16 Oct 2008, 6:40 pm

NocturnalQuilter wrote:
Bisexuals are just greedy;


Having no gender-based sexual preference means that you are greedy?

Please explain.



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16 Oct 2008, 9:25 pm

Well I am asexual making it all the more isolating and confusing for me.



vadergirl
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16 Oct 2008, 10:28 pm

i'm a lesbian and i don't know if i have asperger's or not but either way, the way i view it is that neither homosexuality or asperger's are negative things but that many ignorant people cannot accept unconventional ideas or people. they are both similar in that way. neither trait is an illness or disability. it's just another way of being human. :)



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16 Oct 2008, 11:27 pm

vadergirl wrote:
i'm a lesbian and i don't know if i have asperger's or not but either way, the way i view it is that neither homosexuality or asperger's are negative things but that many ignorant people cannot accept unconventional ideas or people. they are both similar in that way. neither trait is an illness or disability. it's just another way of being human. :)


Not just human - think of all the animal species who have members that are gay, lesbian, bisexual or asexual.

Thats always something to bring up to someone whose hard core swinging a bible around "this is a sin by the devil, god is against it" because usually they are people who don't feel god gave animals the capability of committing sin and must live the way god wants them to. Unfortunately most walk away in anger that you contradicted them rather than attempting to offer some explanation for how the two beliefs they hold are compatible


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release_the_bats
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17 Oct 2008, 10:52 am

Yes, there are many animal species that engage in bisexual behavior. Bisexuality in particular seems to be common in animal behavior.

However, I suspect that if you were to make that point to a person who is against homosexuality for religious reasons, they would argue that humans are superior to animals and therefore can choose to engage solely in heterosexual behavior. It would go something like this:

"But my dog likes to do it with male dogs as well as female dogs."

"And I see your dog also likes to eat feces, and lick its nether-regions in public. So it's all right for people to do those things too?"

You could win this argument if you kept up with the latest research on the role homosexual and bisexual behavior plays in nature. Unless the person with whom you were debating did not believe in science . . . :?



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17 Oct 2008, 2:03 pm

release_the_bats wrote:
"And I see your dog also likes to eat feces, and lick its nether-regions in public. So it's all right for people to do those things too?"

Licking your own nether-regions in public is perfectly acceptable to me. I would almost pay to see it.

release_the_bats wrote:
You could win this argument if you kept up with the latest research on the role homosexual and bisexual behavior plays in nature. Unless the person with whom you were debating did not believe in science . . . :?

True believers always reserve the right to denounce science altogether if it contradicts their point and then in the same breath put forth scientific claims when they suit the argument. Be sure to remind them that they can't have it both ways.


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vadergirl
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17 Oct 2008, 3:27 pm

Triangular_Trees wrote:
vadergirl wrote:
i'm a lesbian and i don't know if i have asperger's or not but either way, the way i view it is that neither homosexuality or asperger's are negative things but that many ignorant people cannot accept unconventional ideas or people. they are both similar in that way. neither trait is an illness or disability. it's just another way of being human. :)


Not just human - think of all the animal species who have members that are gay, lesbian, bisexual or asexual.

Thats always something to bring up to someone whose hard core swinging a bible around "this is a sin by the devil, god is against it" because usually they are people who don't feel god gave animals the capability of committing sin and must live the way god wants them to. Unfortunately most walk away in anger that you contradicted them rather than attempting to offer some explanation for how the two beliefs they hold are compatible


i agree with what you're saying about animals being gay. as a student in a catholic school, i constantly hear people degrading homosexuality and it offends me that they think i'm mentally ill because i like other girls. all i meant by "another way of being human" is that all people are different. thanks for your input you seem to be understanding of christian misconceptions. :)