Are all Loners on the spectrum?

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It seems that they are being that NTs need to socialize, its part of their genetics

You assume it's always by choice.

"Part of their genetics" I don't get it. I realize Autism and Aspergers are considered hereditary but surely it's possible and even common nfor NT's and aspies/aut's to exist within the same family unit.

There's lots of reasons someone might me a loner. there's a long list of things that can cause people to withdraw like that. it could be low self estem from a real or perceived physical or mental defect or deficit. depression, anti-social personalty, severe OCD, or maybe they are just shy. I'm sure there are many, many more reasons, those are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head.

Of course, it could be that they don't "fit" into society and are more or less outcast, whether or not they want to be.

I agree that there are many conditions out there that would cause someone to be a loner. It is not just people on the spectrum, nor do I think all people on the spectrum are automatically loners. Some people do have meaningful relationships despite being socially awkward. Also, I think it is possible for people without conditions to be loners sometimes.

No. Loner is more of a personality type. You could be a loner but not have any socializing problems. You just choose to be alone. You could be a loner and not have any repititive rituals or special interests. PTSD can cause one to be a loner. A loner can be a sociapath. There are allot of reasons one could be a loner.

Nor are all people on the spectrum loners.

Hermit
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A hermit is a person who lives, to some degree, in seclusion from society.[1]

In Christianity, the term was originally applied to a Christian who lives the eremitic life out of a religious conviction, namely the Desert Theology of the Old Testament (i.e., the forty years wandering in the desert[2] that was meant to bring about a change of heart).

In the Christian tradition the eremitic life[3] is an early form of monastic living that preceded the monastic life in the cenobium. The Rule of St Benedict (ch. 1) lists hermits among four kinds of monks. In addition to hermits that are members of religious orders, the contemporary Roman Catholic Church law (canon 603) recognizes also consecrated hermits under the direction of their diocesan bishop as members of the Consecrated Life. The same is true in many parts of the Anglican Communion, including the Episcopal Church in the United States. In the Canon Law of the Episcopal Church, those who make application to their diocesan bishop and who persevere in whatever preparatory program the bishop requires, take vows that include lifelong celibate chastity. They are referred to as Solitaries rather than hermits; each selects a bishop other than their diocesan as an additional spiritual resource and, if necessary, an intermediary.

Often, both in religious and secular literature, the term "hermit" is used loosely for anyone living a solitary life-style, including the misanthrope, and in religious contexts is sometimes assumed to be interchangeable with anchorite / anchoress (from the Greek ἀναχωρέω anachōreō, signifying "to withdraw", "to depart into the country outside the circumvallate city"), recluse and solitary. However, it is important to retain a clear distinction between the vocation of hermits and that of anchorites.


http://www.hermitary.com/ looks interesting

THE HERMIT from http://www.learntarot.com/maj09.htm

INTROSPECTION
SEARCHING
GUIDANCE
SOLITUDE



[ Actions ] [ Opposing Cards ] [ Reinforcing Cards ] [ Description ] [ Reversed? ]

ACTIONS

being introspective
thinking things over
focusing inward
concentrating less on the senses
quieting yourself
looking for answers within
needing to understand

searching
seeking greater understanding
looking for something
wanting the truth at all costs
going on a personal quest
needing more
desiring a new direction

receiving/giving guidance
going to/being a mentor
accepting/offering wise counsel
learning from/being a guru
turning to/being a trusted teacher
being helped/helping

seeking solitude
needing to be alone
desiring stillness
withdrawing from the world
experiencing seclusion
giving up distractions
retreating into a private world


OPPOSING CARDS: Some Possibilities

Lovers - being in a relationship, sexuality
World - involvement with the world
Two of Cups - making connections, partnerships
Three of Cups - being in a group, being with others
Nine of Cups - sensual pleasure


REINFORCING CARDS: Some Possibilities

High Priestess - looking inward, withdrawing
Four of Cups - withdrawing, being introverted
Eight of Cups - searching for deeper meaning
Four of Swords - contemplating, being quiet
Seven of Swords - being alone, staying away from others


DESCRIPTION

The traditional hermit is a crusty, bearded character who has withdrawn from the company of men to live a life of seclusion and hardship. Card 9 supports this understanding. The Hermit represents the desire to turn away from the getting and spending of society to focus on the inner world. He seeks answers within and knows that they will come only with quiet and solitude.

There comes a point in life when we begin to question the obvious. We sense that there is a deeper reality and begin to search for it. This is mainly a solitary quest because answers do not lie in the external world, but in ourselves. The hermit on Card 9 reminds us of Diogenes, the Greek ascetic who is said to have gone out with a lantern in hand to search for an honest man. Diogenes is a symbol of the search for truth that the Hermit hopes to uncover by stripping away all diversions.

In readings, the Hermit often suggests a need for time alone - a period of reflection when distractions are limited. In times of action and high energy, he stands for the still center that must be created for balance. He can also indicate that withdrawal or retreat is advised for the moment. In addition, the Hermit can represent seeking of all kinds, especially for deeper understanding or the truth of a situation. "Seek, and ye shall find," we have been told, and so the Hermit stands for guidance as well. We can receive help from wise teachers, and, in turn, help others as we progress.

Home > Catholic Encyclopedia > H > Hermits
Hermits from http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07280a.htm

(Eremites, "inhabitants of a desert", from the Greek eremos), also called anchorites, were men who fled the society of their fellow-men to dwell alone in retirement. Not all of them, however, sought so complete a solitude as to avoid absolutely any intercourse with their fellow-men. Some took a companion with them, generally a disciple; others remained close to inhabited places, from which they procured their food. This kind of religious life preceded the community life of the cenobites. Elias is considered the precursor of the hermits in the Old Testament. St. John the Baptist lived like them in the desert. Christ, too, led this kind of life when he retired into the mountains. But the eremitic life proper really begins only in the time of the persecutions. The first known example is that of St. Paul, whose biography was written by St. Jerome. He began about the year 250. There were others in Egypt; St. Athanasius, who speaks of them in his life of St. Anthony, does not mention their names. Nor were they the only ones. These first solitaries, few in number, selected this mode of living on their own initiative. It was St. Anthony who brought this kind of life into vogue at the beginning of the fourth century. After the persecutions the number of hermits increased greatly in Egypt, then in Palestine, then in the Sinaitic peninsula, Mesopotamia, Syria, and Asia Minor. Cenobitic communities sprang up among them, but did not become so important as to extinguish the eremitic life. They continued to flourish in the Egyptian deserts, not to speak of other localities. Discussions arose in Egypt as to the respective merits of the cenobitic and the eremitic style of life. Which was the better? Cassian, who voices the common opinion, believed that the cenobitic life offered more advantages and less inconveniences than the eremitic life. The Syrian hermits, in addition to their solitude, were accustomed to subject themselves to great bodily austerities. Some passed years on the top of a pillar (stylites); others condemned themselves to remain standing, in open air (stationaries); others shut themselves up in a cell so that they could not come out (recluses).

Not all these hermits were models of piety. History points out many abuses among them; but, considering everything, they remain one of the noblest examples of heroic asceticism the world has ever seen. Very many of them were saints. Doctors of the Church, like St. Basil, St. Gregory of Nazianzus, St. John Chrysostom, St. Jerome, belonged to their number; and we might also mention Sts. Epiphanius, Ephraem, Hilarion, Nilus, Isidore of Pelusium. We have no rule giving an account of their mode of life, though we may form an idea of it from their biographies, which are to be found in Palladius, "Historia Lausiaca", P.L., XXXIV, 901-1262; Rufinus, "Historia Monachorum", P.L., XXI, 387-461; Cassian, "Collationes Patrum; De Institutis coenobitarum", P.L., IV; Theodoret, "Historia religiosa", P.G., LXXXII, 1279-1497; and also in the "Verba Seniorum", P.L., LXXIV, 381-843, and the "Apophthegmata Patrum", P.G., LXV, 71-442.

The eremitic life spread to the West in the fourth century, and flourished especially in the next two centuries, that is to say, till experience had shown by its results the advantages of the cenobitic organization. St. Gregory the Great, in his "Dialogues", gives an account of the best-known solitaries of central Italy (P.L., LXXVII, 149-430). St. Gregory of Tours does the same for a part of France (Vitae Patrum), P.L. LXXI, 1009-97). Oftentimes those who helped most to spread the cenobitic ideal were originally solitaries themselves, for instance, St. Severinus of Norica and St. Benedict of Nursia. Monasteries frequently, though by no means always, sprang from the cell of a hermit, who drew a band of disciples around him. From the beginning of the seventh century, we meet with instances of monks who at intervals led an eremitic life. As an example we may cite St. Columbanus, St. Riquier, and St. Germer. Some monasteries had isolated cells close by, where those religious who were judged capable of living in solitude might retire. Such was especially the case at the monastery of Cassiodorus, at Viviers in Calabria, and the Abbey of Fontenelles, in the Diocese of Rouen. Those who felt the want of solitude were advised to reside near an oratory or a monastic church. The councils and the monastic rules did not encourage those who were desirous of leading an eremitic life.

The widespread relaxation of monastic discipline drove St. Odo, the great apostle of reform in the sixth century, into the solitude of the forest. The religious fervour of the succeeding age produced many hermits. But to guard against the serious dangers of this kind of life, monastic institutes were founded that combined the advantages of solitude with the guidance of a superior and the protection of a rule. Thus, for example, we had the Carthusians and the Camaldolese at Vallombrosa and Monte Vergine. Nevertheless there still continued to be a large number of isolated hermits, and an attempt was made to form them into congregations having a fixed rule and a responsible superior. Italy especially was the home of these congregations at the beginning of the thirteenth century. Some drew up an entirely new rule for themselves; others adapted the Rule of St. Benedict to meet their wants; while others again preferred to base their rule on that of St. Augustine. Pope Alexander IV united the last into one order, under the name of the Hermits of St. Augustine (1256). Three congregations of hermits were called after St. Paul, one formed in 1250 in Hungary, another in Portugal, founded by Mendo Gomez de Simbria, who died in 1481, and the third in France, established by Guillaume Callier (1620); these last hermits were known also by the name of the Brothers of Death. Eugene IV formed into a congregation, to be called after St. Ambrose, the hermits who dwelt in a forest near Milan (1441). We may mention also the Brothers of the Apostle (1484), the Colorites (1530), the Hermits of Monte Senario (1593), and those of Monte Luco, who were in Italy; those of Mont-Voiron, whose constitutions were drawn up by St. Francis de Sales; those of St-Sever, in Normandy, founded by Guillaume, who had previously been a Camaldolese; those of St. John the Baptist, in Navarre, approved by Gregory XIII; the hermits of the same name, founded in France by Michel by Michel de Sainte-Sabine (1630); those of Mont-Valérien, near Paris (seventeenth century); those of Bavaria, established in the Diocese of Ratisbon (1769). The Venerable Joseph Cottolengo founded a congregation of hermits in Lombardy in the middle of the nineteenth century. Some Benedictine monasteries had hermitages depending on them. Thus we have the case of St. William of the Desert (1330) and the hermits of Our Lady of Montserrat, in Spain. The latter were well known from the sixteenth century, from their connexion with García de Cisneris. They disappeared in the eighteenth century. At the present time there exists a body of hermits on a mountain near Cordova.

We see, therefore, that the Church has always been anxious to form the hermits into communities. Nevertheless, many preferred their independence and their solitude. They were numerous in Italy, Spain, France, and Flanders in the seventeenth century. Benedict XIII and Urban VIII took measures to prevent the abuses likely to arise from too great independence. Since then the eremitic life has been gradually abandoned, and the attempts made to revive it in the last century have had no success. (See RULE OF SAINT AUGUSTINE; CAMALDOLESE; CARMELITE ORDER; CARTHUSIAN ORDER; HIERONYMITES; also under GREEK CHURCH, Vol. VI, p. 761.)

No. About 25% of NTs are introverts, for whom socializing takes effort, and who seek out solitude to relax. The difference between these folks and autistic introverts is that their social skills are not lacking; they just prefer to be alone more often, and tend to be more introspective and have smaller numbers of closer friends.

Additionally, it is not necessary for an autistic person to be introverted. There are autistic extraverts; I know one or two myself. Like NT extraverts, they enjoy being with people; but they are often obviously odd or eccentric. Their social skills are sometimes better than autistic introverts because of the sheer amount of practice they get; but in general they are still autistic and still have to spend a good deal of effort on socializing. It's my guess that about 25% of autistics are extraverts, but I don't have any real stats.

As for introverted autistics--there seem to be two basic styles there too. One group of autistic introverts is generally non-anxious, and can comfortably interact with others; they simply choose not to, more often than not, because they find it not as interesting or more tiring. The second group is more anxious, and isolates themselves because they are afraid of hurting someone, embarrassing themselves, etc.

Yeah Ive known some introverted NTs who are mostly loners or have been loners at some point during their lives. And I know an extroverted aspie who likes being around people and tries to befriend everyone but is not terribly successful at connecting with people. I think aspies are more likely to be loners largely due to a lack of social acceptance. And I do think theres a higher percentage of aspie introverts. One reason why aspies have a lower social tolerance might be partially due to a lack of social contact to begin with. I noticed that my social tolerance has grown throughout the yrs because I socialize more due to better social skills. I recently able to tolerate a day with 13 hrs of almost non-stop socialization which included going to 2 bars however the next day I was terribly exhausted whereas 4 yrs ago, I wouldn't have been able to do that.

No. There are some who are loners who don't have an ASD.

Personally I think it's a continuum and I do think there's a close link between AS/ASD and introversion/HSP as argued here:

"The remaining sections of this thesis transition from definition and historical background to exploring how introversion and autism fit together and define this continuum. The four factors are taken individually, but each chapter presents them in dynamic with other aspects of introversion to demonstrate how these factors relate to each other to create the relationship of features that typifies introversion at the non-clinical part of the continuum, and autism in its more severe expression."

http://etd.fcla.edu/CF/CFE0003090/Grime ... 005_MA.pdf