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JPmoney
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27 Nov 2008, 1:19 am

I have some questions for my fellow Aspies. I hope this doesn't cause a huge debate. I know that many people have good evidence that Asperger's is neurobiological and so forth, and I know that some people just WANT to believe that their disorders are inherent, but I'm just focusing on anecdotal evidence. I myself believe it is mostly (maybe 85%) neurobiological, but also somewhat environmental, so please don't jump on me.


1. Have you guys ever heard of anyone turning from NT to Asperger's/autistic, or vice versa?

2. Do you think Adderall/speed can "meth" a person out to the point where they seemingly become Aspie?



Last edited by JPmoney on 27 Nov 2008, 2:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

NocturnalQuilter
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27 Nov 2008, 1:24 am

JPmoney wrote:
1. Have you guys ever heard of anyone turning from NT to Asperger's/autistic, or vice versa?

The more I read on this forum, the more I'm leaning toward tossing out my recent diagnosis (which cost about $500) and just be myself without any label. So for the sake of argument I am thinking of no longer claiming to have Asperger's.
JPmoney wrote:
2. Do you think Adderall/speed can "meth" a person out to the point where they seemingly become Aspie?

I had a very long run with meth a number of years ago. I can't really say if I was any more "Aspie" then as my doctor seems to think I am now.



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27 Nov 2008, 1:30 am

Quote:
I myself believe it is mostly (maybe 75%) genetic, but also somewhat environmental, so please don't jump on me.


It is neurobiological disorder, as I explained before. Somewhat genetic.

Quote:
1. Have you guys ever heard of anyone turning from NT to Asperger's/autistic, or vice versa?

2. Do you think Adderall/speed can "meth" a person out to the point where they seemingly become Aspie?


You can not become an Aspie (or autistic). It is inborn condition, connected with imbalanced migration of genes during the fetal stage of development; the imbalance causes changes in the brain structure, and no meds/drugs really change the brain's stucture - they only damage it, but it's different.



JPmoney
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27 Nov 2008, 2:31 am

ReGiFroFoLa wrote:
Quote:
I myself believe it is mostly (maybe 75%) genetic, but also somewhat environmental, so please don't jump on me.


It is neurobiological disorder, as I explained before. Somewhat genetic.



Yeah, that's the word I should have used.



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27 Nov 2008, 2:44 am

Meth can lead to permanent neurological changes. There is a stereotypical exaggerated frown almost gurning that long term tweakers will pull. Yes your face really can "get stuck". I call this making the "crank face". I don't think this is anything like having AS. This family of chemicals was beneficial to me in that it revealed my underlying serotonin imbalance, and I was able to benefit from Prozac when that came out as a result. I was also able to dis-identify with my feelings of depression somewhat. The world isn't necessarily horrible and myself worthless. My serotonin levels may just need a little help. I've known lots of people who used and abused these substances. None of them "caught" AS from it.


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27 Nov 2008, 2:53 am

To elucidate a little further, I now know that I don't have a single personality, but a broad range of potentials, mediated by my somewhat fixed neurology, modified by present brain chemistry, and colored by all of my past and present life experiences. As a result I am much more aware that the world "out there" and my subjective personal experience of it may be somewhat congruent, or totally incongruent depending on the changing states of both relative to each other.

This is very useful. It can really help to "break trance" and get back on level to know that the "world" isn't totally screwed, just my personal experience mediated a temporary spike or depletion of neuro-chemicals.

The ability to "break trance" and jigger the radio onto a happier station can and has literally saved my life at times.


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27 Nov 2008, 3:04 am

Re, original post: No. Not only 'No,' but profoundly no. This is nonsense. Autism is a neuro-development disorder/conditon - 'conversion' is not even a factor. As to use of illicit drugs - why? This is just asking for trouble and is not related to one's neurology.

However, drugs can damage your brain - why would anyone choose to do that? But unrelated to autism/AS. Any 'altered state' is merely a chemically induced delusion of drug abuser's own volition (that is, the choice of using) that holds no validity.


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27 Nov 2008, 4:52 am

LabPet wrote:
Re, original post: No. Not only 'No,' but profoundly no. This is nonsense. Autism is a neuro-development disorder/conditon - 'conversion' is not even a factor.


I suspect that this is more a question of convention than anything else.

Let's think - I suppose that everybody agrees that environment have some effect in us, and a difference in enviroment can change (big?small?) our way of being. And, in the case of autistics/aspies, a diference in the enviromnent can affect the severity of the symptoms (for some reason thare is ABA schools and things like that).

Now, imagine someone that is somewhere between aspie and NT, very close to the border (I am assuming that autism-neurotypicalism is a continuum and the border between "autistics" and NTs is simply a convention - I don't know if you agree). For a person like that, a difference in enviromnent can indeed be the diference between the symptoms being severe enough to be considered aspie or not - then, a change in enviromnent (specially in childhood or adoloscence) can indeen change a person from "NT with some aspie traits" to "mild aspie" or the opposite.

This not occur simply because, by definition, you are aspie from childhood to dead, then:

A - if you change from "NT with some aspie traits" to "mild aspie", you will be considered, not a "NT who becomes aspie", but, or an "aspie who was some time un-diagnosed because was very high-functioning", or a NT with some personality disorder

B - if you change from "mild aspie" to "NT with some aspie traits", you will be considered, or a "NT who was mis-diagnosed as aspie" or an "aspie who becomes so high-function that even appears a NT".



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27 Nov 2008, 5:15 am

Quote:
1. Have you guys ever heard of anyone turning from NT to Asperger's/autistic, or vice versa?

Thats impossible. You can't just "turn" NT or AS.

Quote:
2. Do you think Adderall/speed can "meth" a person out to the point where they seemingly become Aspie?


I have no idea. I do know that people on here have said that when they drink alcohol they act NT.



TPE2
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27 Nov 2008, 5:20 am

ShadesOfMe wrote:
Quote:
1. Have you guys ever heard of anyone turning from NT to Asperger's/autistic, or vice versa?

Thats impossible. You can't just "turn" NT or AS.


About that, I repeat my previous comment.



Last edited by TPE2 on 28 Nov 2008, 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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27 Nov 2008, 11:25 am

JPmoney wrote:
1. Have you guys ever heard of anyone turning from NT to Asperger's/autistic, or vice versa?

2. Do you think Adderall/speed can "meth" a person out to the point where they seemingly become Aspie?


1. Some parents think their young children do. When their young child retreats from the world. They see the child as having been normal before that. But I also read somewhere that they (I don't recall who they is) looked at videos of such children when they were infants and autistic traits were present.

I can't help thinking this perhaps relates to the idea I read that autism is a preference for intellectual thinking. Preferring that to social thinking because of being stronger in it. I wonder if maybe for some children, they have weaknesses in social thinking from the start, but, as infants, social thinking is still strongest, even with the weakness, and only as the intellectual thinking develops do they become more obviously autistic. They don't preference that type of thinking until it develops enough that they are better at it than at social thinking.

I do think it's a spectrum, a range, and, well, basically what TPE2 wrote. It's not like NTs and aspies are two distinct groups with a gult in between. There's a range, and people and move along that range. People can change in how autistic (aspie) they are, and how NT they are.

2. I'm thinking a drug that treats ADHD wouldn't make a person look aspie. But, it wouldn't surprise me if there are drugs that can make a person look aspie if they aren't, at least some people some of the time. That is, I take it to be a possibilty.



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27 Nov 2008, 1:36 pm

JPmoney wrote:
I have some questions for my fellow Aspies. I hope this doesn't cause a huge debate. I know that many people have good evidence that Asperger's is neurobiological and so forth, and I know that some people just WANT to believe that their disorders are inherent, but I'm just focusing on anecdotal evidence. I myself believe it is mostly (maybe 85%) neurobiological, but also somewhat environmental, so please don't jump on me.


1. Have you guys ever heard of anyone turning from NT to Asperger's/autistic, or vice versa?

2. Do you think Adderall/speed can "meth" a person out to the point where they seemingly become Aspie?


1. No, not a single case. There are instances where someone may experience symptoms similar to those experienced by individuals on the spectrum, but that is -NOT- the same as having autism or another one of the spectrum disorders.

2. No. Not even the same function, and those I have encountered who choose to use such a substance have almost always be antithetical to what I observe in those on the spectrum.

My thoughts are that conditions on the spectrum have a genetic predisposition which is triggered, exacerbated or affected by additional factors during the earliest of developmental stages, and may possibly be further affected after birth to a minimal extent.


M.


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JPmoney
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28 Nov 2008, 6:33 am

I'm just curious because people have been saying that I must be on it. I've heard of at least 3 different people wondering about it behind my back, one of whom was a cop who was talking to my dad. Two other people have asked me right to my face (including a medical nurse). It sounded as if they all thought I was dangerous/insane/about to do something crazy. And it's always meth/speed. Not any other drug or chemical. Why would all these people be saying the same thing about me? Is it the hyperfocusing Aspie trait that's making them think this?



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28 Nov 2008, 7:39 am

It could be an 'odd prosody' thing. Do you talk fast, (perhaps when nervous, overwhelmed or enthused about the topic of conversation), use 'exaggerated' body language and gestures? Talk extensively, seemingly without let-up for a breath?



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28 Nov 2008, 8:23 am

MR wrote:
I can't help thinking this perhaps relates to the idea I read that autism is a preference for intellectual thinking. Preferring that to social thinking because of being stronger in it.


This could explain the social deficits, but not the repetitive behaviour/restricted interests.