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vivinator
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19 Dec 2008, 3:42 pm

vivinator wrote:
Lightning88 wrote:
That's a good idea. BTW, I actually have NLD so if you have any questions, feel free to ask. :wink:


if you had any psych or neropsych evaluations before you were dx'd with nld what did it/they say?


can anyone else as well as Lighting answer this? :)


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-as of now official dx is ADHD (inattentive type) but said ADD (314.00) on the dx paper, PDD-NOS and was told looks like I have NLD


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19 Dec 2008, 9:19 pm

vivinator wrote:
vivinator wrote:
Lightning88 wrote:
That's a good idea. BTW, I actually have NLD so if you have any questions, feel free to ask. :wink:


if you had any psych or neropsych evaluations before you were dx'd with nld what did it/they say?


can anyone else as well as Lighting answer this? :)

Here's what happened: I was originally diagnosed with AS in the eighth grade. But I'm actually quite the opposite of a lot of the symptons, with the exception being obsessions. Anyway, I went to a different psychologist/psychiatrist later on in twelfth grade, and she said I definitely do not have AS, but rather NLD, which we were not familiar with. So now I have a diagnosis of NLD instead of AS. There's not really too much more to it than that.



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19 Dec 2008, 10:22 pm

Its all very confusing really. I think that AS's DSM should be widened to include some forms of NLD. I think I am NLD but if I was asked whether I felt NT or AS I would have to say AS.


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Greentea
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19 Dec 2008, 10:38 pm

That Christmas kernel is so sweet...!


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zen_mistress
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20 Dec 2008, 2:59 am

Thanks. Yes it is sweet.. I went looking for a festive avatar and found that one straight away, I was lucky. He reminds me of my dog who is also white with black ears.


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Greentea
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20 Dec 2008, 3:08 am

He reminds me of myself, apart in my different world and still trying to go along with the customs of the humans...


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20 Dec 2008, 4:13 am

Look. you've heard about the experimental observation that the point at which reflex becomes amenable to conscious intervention in humans runs on the end of a half-second delay line?

It's my theory that neurotypicals develop - before age two as far as I can make out - a feedback loop between perception and behaviour that runs faster than that. Aspies don't.

In compensation, aspies develop, later, the fastest couplings they can find between conscious intervention and behaviour; and they're often unreliable (stims, twitches, ...)

The upshot - neurotypicals form judgements about people that aren't accesible to reflective intervention. People who react right pass, people who don't don't. The semantic content of the dialogue is largely irrelevant, it's the behaviour that counts.


And, yeah, I scored high on all the tests I was given as a kid. Noone noticed that I didn't communicate and noone did anything to help...



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20 Dec 2008, 4:28 am

Yeah that is my problem at times, I get hung up on semantics.

Snoopy is so adorable in his fantasy world, he has so many daydreams and so much going on in his head though he seems so quiet...

I think I am more like Peppermint Patty in personality though: she was loud, and worried too much, and would blow social situations by talking too much and letting the wrong thing come out. Familiar, lol.


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21 Dec 2008, 11:50 am

Shoot, I can't edit my original post anymore (only within the first 9999 minutes apparently). I wanted to remove the poll, change the title, and add some more general NLD information to it for NLD newbies.


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21 Dec 2008, 11:52 am

vivinator wrote:
vivinator wrote:
Lightning88 wrote:
That's a good idea. BTW, I actually have NLD so if you have any questions, feel free to ask. :wink:


if you had any psych or neropsych evaluations before you were dx'd with nld what did it/they say?


can anyone else as well as Lighting answer this? :)


I didn't have any actual evaluations before my NLD one. I'd been in therapy for a bit, but just for social anxiety.


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Greentea
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21 Dec 2008, 12:28 pm

Probably Merle could help?


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vivinator
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21 Dec 2008, 4:46 pm

I went to this neurofeedback type place called The Drake Institute which has various locations in southern California.

http://www.drakeinstitute.com/

anyway it was orientation . they first showed a video about it. mostly dealing with add/hd treatment. anyway we spoke I think to a clinician afterwards. not sure what kind. anyway my mother and sister were there. we mentioned late-talking. not sure what years.

the clinician ruled out nld because of that.
I also learned a hand flapped I think for a very short time maybe up to age 2 ill have to ask
I have visual-spatial issues.

my viq is much higher than my piq . seems to rule out hfa.
of course the late-talking plus visual-spatial seemingly rules isn't common with as.
the late-talking could exclude it. not sure how late i talked. well i did call dada and mama and 1.5 yrs.
2 languages were spoken in the house as well.

funny thing is I was only told about the appt on Fri. my sister made it. I'm going to their QEEG brain mapping tomorrow. not sure if I'll go through with the whole program. I really just wanted a neuropsych evaluation.

I think they said they aren't interested in giving me an actual dx. that may just be for the AS Assessment. with the neuropsych evaluation perhaps they would.
i'll ask them.

lol my sister wanted to know people with asperger's who went through this. was told the doctor would be more open to that if she did the brain mapping or some svc ($$$).


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All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.

-HL Mencken


-as of now official dx is ADHD (inattentive type) but said ADD (314.00) on the dx paper, PDD-NOS and was told looks like I have NLD


vivinator
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21 Dec 2008, 4:48 pm

LostInSpace wrote:
vivinator wrote:
vivinator wrote:
Lightning88 wrote:
That's a good idea. BTW, I actually have NLD so if you have any questions, feel free to ask. :wink:


if you had any psych or neropsych evaluations before you were dx'd with nld what did it/they say?


can anyone else as well as Lighting answer this? :)


I didn't have any actual evaluations before my NLD one. I'd been in therapy for a bit, but just for social anxiety.


oh im assuming most with nld would merit an eval. of course there are other factors such as school dist. and you are younger than me.


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All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.

-HL Mencken


-as of now official dx is ADHD (inattentive type) but said ADD (314.00) on the dx paper, PDD-NOS and was told looks like I have NLD


Zonder
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21 Dec 2008, 8:10 pm

David Dinklage, who was mentioned previously in this thread, gives an important caveat in his article Asperger’s Disorder and Nonverbal Learning Disabilities: How are These Two Disorders Related to Each Other:

“As humans, we naturally want to categorize. [But] the complex relationship between Nonverbal Learning Disabilities and Asperger’s Disorder may be an example of how categorizing too rigidly can confuse, rather than clarify, our thinking.”

I think the point he is making is that it is incredibly hard to categorized brain-based developmental/neurological "differences" because the brain is so complex AND there is so much overlap between the different "syndromes" that someone out there has identified (thank you Dr. Asperger).

Funny thing, I have more of a verbal learning disorder, I am definitely a predominantly visual learner, but still have some of the same things that are seen in Asperger's Syndrome and/or NLD. I have intense focus and a couple of long-term special interests. I was behind my peers in social and emotional development, and continue to have problems with that. I didn't participate in games and didn't use my imagination in play. I get socially anxious, panicky, and depressed because of the uncertainty I experience due to my neurological makeup. Technically, I could probably have had a diagnosis of PDD-NOS as a child (if they had been doing that in the 1960s). I also fit the description of kids labeled with "Einstein Syndrome" (a term developed by economist Thomas Sowell whose son was a late talker and had other developmental issues). I also match the characteristics of Visual-Spatial Learner which is the opposite of Nonverbal Learning Disorder.

My IQ and psychological tests show that I look a lot like "Twice-Exceptional" kids who are "gifted" and have Autism Spectrum Disorder. Their lowest scores, like mine, are in socialization. BUT, I've worked very hard on communicating and socializing effectively, by college I was doing OK, and now in my 40s, I'm quite skilled and verbal and written communication. It took a lot of work to get where I am, but that doesn't mean that I don't still struggle with many of the same things I was struggling with when I was three. My wiring doesn't seem to have changed, but I've found some ways around some of the problems.

I guess the point of this ramble is that there are "building blocks" that make up the neurological differences that we experience. It all boils down to how effective our brains are at transferring signals and types of information in and between different areas of the brain. The combination of specific "building blocks" can put us in one category or another, and there is enough similarity of traits in groups of people that they then get labeled with a "syndrome" such as AS or NLD. But there are a whole lot of people who have a little bit of this and a little bit of that, and in the end get more and more confused by professionals (and armchair enthusiasts) who continue to try to narrow down categories in ways that ultimately might not be so helpful.

I'm all for finding a good category that fits, but I keep seeing that it's often not one or the other. It is a combination.

Z



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22 Dec 2008, 12:30 am

vivinator wrote:
my viq is much higher than my piq . seems to rule out hfa.


While I can see how the IQ scores would / could be this important to a learning disorder diagnosis, I personally am autistic and on separate occasions have tested differently on different (but comparable) IQ tests: on Stanford-Binet visual-spatial and performance was more than a standard deviation above verbal, whereas on WAIS-III that I took 8 years later it was the opposite - while the overall score had decreased quite a bit, the verbal was now a standard deviation higher, despite my having lost quite a bit of my speech/language skills!

zen_mistress wrote:
Its all very confusing really. I think that AS's DSM should be widened to include some forms of NLD. I think I am NLD but if I was asked whether I felt NT or AS I would have to say AS


I get what you mean here. I have a friend with NLD, and she strikes me as more on the aspie side than the NT side, evne though diagnostically she doesn't present like Asperger/autistic people. Maybe because of ADHD, but I've known a lot of people wiht ADHD, and I don't know, maybe the two combined can be a description of someone who is spectrummy.


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22 Dec 2008, 2:28 am

I have NLD (self-diagnosed). I don't have anything in common with Aspies, except that Aspies are as bad as NLDers at the non-verbal part of social interaction, so we have a topic of conversation in common where we're very much alike and can benefit from discussion about it. If there was a good forum for people with NLD on the internet, however, there wouldn't be a point for me to be here on WP.

What I mean to say is that I don't see any overlap or similarity or kinship between the 2 conditions. Having 1 trait in common with another condition doesn't make the 2 conditions similar or overlapping or the difference between them confusing. Especially in the case of NLD and AS, where another trait is actually opposite in both: (visual-spatial vs. verbal skills) which makes both populations develop in totally different directions regarding studies, occupation, and challenges.


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