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Sora
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05 Jan 2009, 12:20 pm

All right, I always considered pragmatic language deficits as a normal part of AS. If you have trouble with pragmatics of language you might be unintentionally rude, cannot do the normal give-and-take in a conversation. You don't know when to talk or how to engage others in a conversation and so on.

Typically AS.

But what are problems with semantics? I thought it meant having problems with grammar. But why then do people who speak just fine are said to have trouble with semantics?


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Danielismyname
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05 Jan 2009, 12:27 pm

People with AS shouldn't have problems with semantics, whether as a child or adult. It's written and verbal language; reading and writing. The children with Autism and SPD will have early problems with reading, writing and talking, whereas the children with AS and NLD shouldn't.

It's those with Autism who have problems with semantics [as well as pragmatics], as children, and sometimes into adulthood (well, there's always going to be some level of impairment, no matter how much someone has improved).



Mysty
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05 Jan 2009, 1:18 pm

I don't know what SPD is, so I don't know how this applies to that. However, semantics is meaning in language, not grammar. A sentence can be perfectly gramatical and have no meaning. I think the classic example is "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.".

Ah, you must mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_p ... c_disorder



Last edited by Mysty on 05 Jan 2009, 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

05 Jan 2009, 1:20 pm

I might have this condition. That would explain why I have difficulty time understanding what I am reading, what people are saying, and when I look a word up in a dictionary, it is so complicated to understand so I have to use the thesaurus. I found the children's dictionary easier to understand. They described the meaning of words in a easy way kids would understand.

But this condition also sounded a lot like AS when I read about it on wikipedia. I think this is another made up condition and when two people discovered it, they basically rediscovered AS and the problems I have are maybe related to having a learning disability.



Jenk
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05 Jan 2009, 1:45 pm

http://www.nldontheweb.org/heller.htm



Last edited by Jenk on 05 Jan 2009, 2:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Danielismyname
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05 Jan 2009, 2:02 pm

Just FYI and all, SPD is to Autism as NLD is to AS.



Sora
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05 Jan 2009, 2:19 pm

MR wrote:
"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously."


I understand that this sentence is unrealistic, but to me it has a meaning. Though now I read about it and how it is supposed to be nonsensical. But it must have a meaning to everyone, you can imagine that sentence visually even.

At least now I know that we're not talking about grammar.

The article that you, Jenk, posted is extremely interesting, but from what I understand (having never looked into that topic before) it's also mainly about pragmatics and how come children/people have semantic and pragmatic deficits.

But I'm still at step 1: what are semantics?

Neologisms and having trouble to find the right words are not semantics from what I understand.


I'm really missing something here, oh boy. It can't be that hard to understand can it.


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Jenk
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05 Jan 2009, 2:23 pm

Took me 15minutes to work out i'd misinterpretted the question and gone off an irrelevent tangent. It can be difficult to sift through the information. Especially as many of us have a life worth of relevent reading to catch up on. Occasionally too eagar to discuss, see 'buzz word,' neglect context.
Semantics, deriving meaning from words.



Last edited by Jenk on 05 Jan 2009, 4:23 pm, edited 8 times in total.

Sora
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05 Jan 2009, 3:15 pm

Jenk wrote:
Took me 15minutes to work out i'd misinterpretted the question and gone off an irrelevent tangent.


Not irrelevant, because it really was interesting. Especially because it mentions hyperlexia too! It's just not that useful to me right now because I'm not comprehending the basis.

So semantics has to do with the meanings of words.



I just wonder how. I tried finding examples of semantic errors but found none so far.

There are plenty of explanations of how the pragmatic difficulties of SPD show. But definitions and articles always seem to leave out the semantics.


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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett


05 Jan 2009, 3:26 pm

But everyone interprets things different. Sometimes it's funny to see people fighting over semantics. Someone says one thing, and another person thinks they meant another thing so bam they are fighting over what he or she meant by when they said it. The person doesnt even listen to what that other meant meant when they said X.
Should I assume all these people have SPD when they misinterpret something and don't listen?

Seems like doctors made up a condition for people who misinterpret things.



Last edited by Spokane_Girl on 05 Jan 2009, 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mysty
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05 Jan 2009, 3:30 pm

Sora wrote:
MR wrote:
"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously."


I understand that this sentence is unrealistic, but to me it has a meaning. Though now I read about it and how it is supposed to be nonsensical. But it must have a meaning to everyone, you can imagine that sentence visually even.


No, it has no meaning to me. And I cannot imagine the sentence visually. And I think I'm typical in that. The individual words have meaning, but they don't fit together to convey an idea.

Unrealistic would be "I flew to the sun". It conveys meaning, but not something that would actually happen.



Danielismyname
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06 Jan 2009, 2:58 am

An error or impairment in semantics would be an inability to read or marked difficulty with reading (writing, speaking, etcetera); whereas the same in pragmatics would be the inability to completely grasp what is read, i.e., what does this really mean?

People with Autism/SPD will often be delayed in reading and writing (talking goes without saying), as well as understanding what the words (semantics) actually mean (pragmatics). Those with AS/NLD have problems with pragmatics.



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06 Jan 2009, 8:09 am

Semantics are the word choices you use to communicate an idea. For example, if you say "Look at the blue sky" as opposed to "There is the blue sky". Both could mean for you to look at the sky. The first sentence is literal, it tells you exactly what to do, the second "implies" that you look at the sky (There it is!) but it doesn't directly tell you to look. They could both be intended to say the same thing, but they really don't. That is where confusion comes from, and arguments about semantics.

My son has difficulities in pragmatics and semantics, so I tend to use rote phrases, because I could say the same thing 2 different ways and he will understand one, but not the other.