Has anyone attempted to divide Aspergers into subtypes?

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MONKEY
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30 Jan 2009, 1:03 pm

pensieve wrote:
I can only relate to a few that poopy listed.

I am:
honest
short-tempered/ impatient
have times when I cannot control my emotions
hypersensitive to light, noise, touch, taste
mildy dyspraxic
ADD issues
has bursts of hyperactivity
has a vivid imagination
has mild synethesia
non-mathematical, though I'm slowly re-learning it.
has great attention to detail
a fact-collector
monotone voice
stutters, mispronounces words, can't explain things properly
can't express self or show enthusiasm
suspected alexithymia
has a very fast brain (as my teacher says)
social dyslexia
stims occasionally
very visual

What would you call that sub type, besides being Shanti (me)?


That's quite like me actually


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raggle-taggle-gypsy
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30 Jan 2009, 1:25 pm

Ticker wrote:
If there is language delay then the person doesn't have Aspergers. Its part of the DSM that there is no language delay. They have some other spectrum disorder. Its funny everyone seems to want to be an Aspie but I read about people on here and have met some in person who likely have Rhetts Syndrome but no they cling to their self diagnosis of Aspergers.

There aren't subtypes of Aspies. What makes us different are mostly our co-morbid conditions. Someone with AS and Schizo is going to be different from someone with AS and PTSD for instance. And also our life experience and way we were raised makes us different. Its not subtypes of Aspie. People are just different just like NTs aren't all the same.


Who made you resident psychiatrist? You took a pretty similar tone with me when I joined. Are you jealous that too many people are encroaching on your niche?

Co-morbid conditions aren't necessarily the determinants of difference. Take social impariment; different types of communication difficulties; motor clumsiness; sensory issues; repetitive behaviours; and limited interests. These are core issues of AS and the difference between serious AS and mild AS isn't that all symptoms are either serious or mild. Some people can be seriously impaired in a selection of some issues and lightly impaired in others.


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buryuntime
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30 Jan 2009, 1:31 pm

here's me:

- honest
- very bad executive function problems
- stims a lot
- hypersensitive to touch and light, the opposite for taste
- non-mathmatical
- do things over and over more than I'm a fact-collecter (I pace probably half the day)
- can't explain anything, very bad vocally and selectively mute around a lot of people
- can't follow verbal directions at all, easily lost
- no problem showing enthusiasm, but cries/laughs during serious conversations or smiles/laughs at everything said.
- VERY easily overwhelmed
- face-blindness
- doesn't catch half of what people say during noisy settings like school. (is this audio-processing disorder or an AS thing?)
- bad working memory, and memory all together.



Ticker
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30 Jan 2009, 2:25 pm

raggle-taggle-gypsy wrote:
Who made you resident psychiatrist? You took a pretty similar tone with me when I joined. Are you jealous that too many people are encroaching on your niche?

Co-morbid conditions aren't necessarily the determinants of difference. Take social impariment; different types of communication difficulties; motor clumsiness; sensory issues; repetitive behaviours; and limited interests. These are core issues of AS and the difference between serious AS and mild AS isn't that all symptoms are either serious or mild. Some people can be seriously impaired in a selection of some issues and lightly impaired in others.


I suppose someone who is undiagnosed is an expert on the autism spectrum? Heck you don't even KNOW what YOU HAVE. I've also read the DSM. Co-morbid conditions are a big reason we are different from one another. Its like at AS meetings where one guy is able to talk yet another guy who has 8 different mental illness diagnosis hides in the corner and starts crying when someone accidently bumps into his chair. Absolutely people who have multiple disorders are going to act differently than someone who has just one disorder. Its just logical. What else can I say? Did it occur to you that some people on here have degrees and have studied medicine and psychology?



poopylungstuffing
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30 Jan 2009, 2:26 pm

buryuntime wrote:
here's me:

- honest
- very bad executive function problems
- stims a lot
- hypersensitive to touch and light, the opposite for taste
- non-mathmatical
- do things over and over more than I'm a fact-collecter (I pace probably half the day)
- can't explain anything, very bad vocally and selectively mute around a lot of people
- can't follow verbal directions at all, easily lost
- no problem showing enthusiasm, but cries/laughs during serious conversations or smiles/laughs at everything said.
- VERY easily overwhelmed
- face-blindness
- doesn't catch half of what people say during noisy settings like school. (is this audio-processing disorder or an AS thing?)
- bad working memory, and memory all together.


Sounds like we sort of have a lot of similar traits.

Things I forgot to mention which seem to place me on the spectrum:
Audio processing disorder, face blindness (mild but annoying), weird reactions during conversations...blank out...start crying..etc, very easily overwhelmed, Was inclined to sometimes be selectively mute when I was younger. This flat feeling would come over me and i just couldn't get any words out.

Another thing about me is that I have had issues with not knowing proper boundaries. When I was a teenager, I had to have "tact" harshly drilled into me. I would get overly familiar with people and not notice that they did not like me...or that they thought I was hitting on them...
I have a tendency to provide too much information.



millie
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30 Jan 2009, 3:21 pm

Quote:
poopylungstuffing wrote:
I saw a video that described several types of Aspies. These were all unofficial subtypes. Most people who responded to the thread attested to being a combination of several of the types listed. I could not decide which one I most closely related to.


Provided that I am indeed an aspie,
I am self-centered, right-brained, artisticly and musically inclined, strong visual/associative memory, non-mathematical, an obsessive collector of things and a repetitive doer moreso than a gatherer of information...though I went through more obsessive fact-collecting phases when I was a kid...I have a funny voice, walk on my toes, stim a lot, am marked by sorta arrested emotional maturity, basic AS-ish sensory issues and avoidance of eye-contact, strong (combined-type)ADD issues, such as executive dysfunction out the wazoo...am somewhat less intelligent than a lot of the aspies in some ways...am very disorganized, somewhat extroverted, socially liberal, and not inclined to lead a very regimented life.

I would like to know if there are other aspies who sorta fit this description...and if we would be a subtype.



poopy - i share many of the above but not all.

i am a toe-walker only in bare feet - i must have shoes of some description on at all times
i am right brained,
i am visual-associative with a memeory that functions in this manner
i cannot do maths beyond the basics
i am artistic-creative with musicality as well ( but not pursued.) my job is a painter
very poor executive function in some areas, excellent in others (special interest)
extreme sensory issues that can prevent me going out or conversing with others
arrested emotional maturity - i am a big kid most of the time

i also have excellent verbal skills on special interests and can perform well academically IF and ONLY IF i am interested. otherwise...the switch is OFF.
i do lead a somewhat regimented life - by virtue of the fact that most of it is spent at home!
i have a strong social conscience
and i can be socially extroverted. bt sadly, i can never really feel lasting connection with people. (the last one makes me sad a lot actually.)

Other features:

obsessive special interests.
fairly severe sensory problems
hyposenstiive to taste,
same food flavours - extra extra hot chilli at every meal.
odd prosody and zee frequent use of zee accents.
mimicry of people and animals
one on one social connection is best.
unable t contend with crowds or groups or even three way conversations.
severe stimming at times -
so-called meaningless object collection.
severe reaction to unprepared touch.
novel approach to sexuality (pansexual)
highly individual
social justice freak
whislte blower
unable to work with others or in groups.
solitary researcher and worker
fact collector and information collector.



Last edited by millie on 31 Jan 2009, 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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31 Jan 2009, 12:48 pm

raggle-taggle-gypsy,
am dont know anything of seperate versions of aspergers,but one of the long time support workers am have from the national autistic society,said no two people on the spectrum-both with any form of autism are alike.
She has worked with many,many adult autists,in residential and day care and said are all different.
So maybe its more....[cant think of a different word for it] a form-of a form of autism,more than having seperate types-everyones unique experience of it.


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31 Jan 2009, 1:03 pm

Here’s me:

-Studied Applied Mathematics/Sciences to Advanced/Higher Level
-Overwhelmed during group work/crowded situations
-Executive dysfunction masked by a self trained neurotic need for order
-The need to plan everything to the last detail/frequently makes contingency plans
-Talk is mainly task and object orientated
-Forms strong emotional attachments to objects and technical equipment
-Brilliant at observing, recording and analysing details in the physical environment
-Collector of facts, explanations, music, books, objects and items from the natural world
-Self trained: strong research, academic and study skills
-Hypergraphic (?)
-Honest, conscientious and helpful
-Determined: focuses on solitary individual study
-Fiddles with, examines and investigates objects
-Occasional face blindness
-Can only work with and issue instructions to a maximum of 3 other people at a time before shutting down socially
-Can comfort those who are lonely/in distress
-Ability to process group interactions/emotional atmosphere on the macro-scale
-Difficulty approaching people unless I have to issue them formal instructions or am sent on an errand
-Passive socialising style, non-cliquish, others usually initiate conversations first
-Difficulty following subtle social cues and rules, struggles if not told exactly what the procedure is
-When leading, good at assigning people tasks
-Can mentor others and offer practical support on a one to one basis
-Can follow clear unambiguous instructions and dangerous procedures safely (e.g. Chemistry experiments such as titrations)
-Brilliant visual presentation and lecturing/monologuing skills (if planned meticulously beforehand). Confident performing in front of lots of people listening silently
-Excellent listening skills
-Excellent punctuality
-Does not procrastinate (unless overworked or over stressed)
-Workaholic perfectionist
-Approaches social situations from a systematic perspective
-Brief and blunt communication style
-Satirical sense of humour
-Behaviour out of sync with everyone else especially physical movements
-Eyes frequently focus intensely on objects in the physical environment, often to the exclusion of people in the social environment
-Magnifying glass like perception: can detect details/faults in systems and equipment
-Good detailed memory
-Excellent rote recall and recitation skills
-An affinity and ability in poetry, art and music.
-Can use and understand abstract concepts, models, metaphors and similes
-Poor handwriting
-IT skills above average (still learning)
-Profound inability to chat on mundane things and relationships: conversation tends to centre around own interests and the physical environment. Cannot “switch off” has to anlayse everything in detail
-Can reciprocate during conversation (learned behaviour), but only up to a point
-Can find it difficult to cooperate with others, contribute to discussions and follow their ideas. Hates compromise. Perspective taking issues
-Non-verbal communication issues (?)
-Occasional “zoning out”, fainting, seizures (?)
-Can perceive music in colour, can taste/visualise/smell someone’s verbal descriptions
-Overactive imagination and vivid dreams
-A wide variety of hobbies and interests: may be many on the go at once
-Physical Clumsiness/difficulties syncing up with groups of people
-Can play sports/exercise/swim/balance if required
-Panics if plans or environment are changed without warning
-Cannot be spontaneous
-Nervous using public transport/places
-Often alone, can’t group-up with others easily
-Sudden bursts of energy/inspiration ADHD?
-Has a strong desire stand out, wears comfortable clothes, oblivious to the idea of “fitting in”


Sorry it's long.
There's something different about me.
It's like I impale myself on my own "sword of determination and ability" sometimes.
Sometimes my having a driven and non-compromising personality irritates other people.
How well I cope heavily depends on the social environment I find myself in.



poopylungstuffing
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31 Jan 2009, 1:18 pm

raggle-taggle-gypsy wrote:
Do you have a link to the video?



Here it is...sorry it took a while...

Will maybe eventually find the link to the thread it last appeared in.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Yd8E-IlVw[/youtube]



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31 Jan 2009, 2:25 pm

On SORA's list:

We already have that speech development that divides a part of the spectrum from classical autism, calling it 'AS'.

2. those with a very early and very fast language development

The use of the criterion of repetitive behaviours to divide AS into subtypes would also lead to confusion, I think. There are those with a diagnosis of AS that:

1. have a special interest (however, classical autism doesn't exclude a special interest and many kfolks with classical have or develop one)
3a. that have routines that if broken distress the individual
5. that have stereotypical mannerisms
X. the social interaction part.

From what pensieve mentioned:

I am:
honest
have times when I cannot control my emotions
hypersensitive to light, noise, touch, taste
hyposensitive to cold
ADD issues
have a vivid imagination (At least when I imagine social things, the future, or business)
non-mathematical, though I'm getting better.
has great attention to detail
a fact-collector
stutters, and slips up sometimes.
can't express self or show enthusiasm
mild alexithymia
has a very fast brain sometimes
social dyslexia
stims occasionally
Somewhat visual(Not quite as much as millie describes, but sometimes I DO surprise myself)

BTW I learned to read sometime before 4, and my mother agrees, but we can't remember EXACTLY when.

To add what buryuntime said:

- face-blindness
- doesn't catch half of what people say during noisy settings like school. (I think I have every symptom of CAPD**)

Adding what ambereyes said

-The need to plan everything to the last detail/frequently makes contingency plans
-Honest, conscientious and helpful
-Can only work with and issue instructions to a maximum of 3 other people at a time before shutting down socially , assuming they keep their distance!
-Can comfort those who are lonely/in distress
-Passive socialising style, non-cliquish, others usually initiate conversations first
-Difficulty following subtle social cues and rules, struggles if not told exactly what the procedure is
-When leading, good at assigning people tasks
-Can mentor others and offer practical support on a one to one basis
-Can follow clear unambiguous instructions and dangerous procedures safely (e.g. Chemistry experiments such as titrations)
-Brilliant visual presentation and lecturing/monologuing skills (if planned meticulously beforehand). Confident performing in front of lots of people listening silently
-Excellent punctuality
-Does not procrastinate (when I have a task, unless overworked,over stressed,or determining a better way)
-Workaholic perfectionist (when left to my own)
-Approaches social situations from a systematic perspective
-Behaviour out of sync with everyone else especially physical movements
-Eyes frequently focus intensely on objects in the physical environment, often to the exclusion of people in the social environment
-Magnifying glass like perception: can detect details/faults in systems and equipment
-Good detailed memory (on certain things)
-Can use and understand abstract concepts, models, metaphors and similes
-IT skills well above average (EVERYONE, including me, is still learning)
-Profound inability to chat on mundane things and relationships: conversation tends to centre around own interests and the physical environment. Cannot “switch off” has to anlayse everything in detail
-Can reciprocate during conversation (learned behaviour), but only up to a point
-Can find it difficult to cooperate with others, contribute to discussions and follow their ideas. Hates compromise. Perspective taking issues
-Non-verbal communication issues
-Occasional “zoning out”

-A wide variety of hobbies and interests: may be many on the go at once
-Physical Clumsiness/difficulties syncing up with groups of people
-Can be very upset if plans or environment are changed without warning
-Tries to never be spontaneous
-Nervous using public transport/places
-Often alone, can’t group-up with others easily
-Sudden bursts of energy/inspiration ADHD?
-wears comfortable clothes, oblivious to the idea of “fitting in”

According to poopylungstuffing's video, I may be the following types:

einstein*,numan,morrissey,nicholls,carroll*,

Einstein and Carroll describe me best.

** CAPD checklist from autistics.org:

Difficulty discriminating "foreground" from "background" noise
Distortions of Incoming Speech
Difficulty Discriminating Sounds
"Delay" or "Lag Time" in Processing Speech
Difficulty Recognising Speech as Speech
External Symptoms:
Asking for Repetition ("Huh?" "What?")

Echolalia and Re-Auditorization
Articulation Difficulties
Responding Incorrectly to Spoken Directions
Apparent "Ignoring" of People
Interrupting or "Speaking Over" People
Delayed Response to Speech
Not Remembering Names Correctly


BTW I agree with all ticker has said here, except the idea that a "professional" is professional and an expert. Have you ever seen the show "what about bob"? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103241/plotsummary

SADLY, there is a LOT of truth in that movie. And I could probably point you to HUNDREDS of similar things. People HERE have said similar things!



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31 Jan 2009, 3:21 pm

Quote:
raggle-taggle-gypsy wrote:
Ticker wrote:
If there is language delay then the person doesn't have Aspergers. Its part of the DSM that there is no language delay. They have some other spectrum disorder. Its funny everyone seems to want to be an Aspie but I read about people on here and have met some in person who likely have Rhetts Syndrome but no they cling to their self diagnosis of Aspergers.

There aren't subtypes of Aspies. What makes us different are mostly our co-morbid conditions. Someone with AS and Schizo is going to be different from someone with AS and PTSD for instance. And also our life experience and way we were raised makes us different. Its not subtypes of Aspie. People are just different just like NTs aren't all the same.


Who made you resident psychiatrist? You took a pretty similar tone with me when I joined. Are you jealous that too many people are encroaching on your niche?



you know Ticker... you are treating the DSM-IV like gospel or the Bible. Ha ha ha.
Are you in the conservative old United States of Amereeca??
you see, in some countries, we are a little more forward thinking and the DSM-IV is now considered a joke. SO may i suggest you go back to some decent swatting and read up on all the different AS diagnostic criteria that exist around the world - as there are a few - and then take it from there.

I have been amazed at how many people posting on WP actually assume the DSM is the only criteria used for assessment. and often they have been from the U.S for some reason.....

ZAT eez zee dark ages hunny bunny.....to sink zee DSM is EET eez a leetle beehind zeee times.



31 Jan 2009, 3:28 pm

I had a language and development delay but still got diagnosed with AS when I was 12. My psychiatrist wrote I was between autism and AS but I seem less than AS because my problems are mild. I used to get so wrapped up on labels and what the criteria says it drove me crazy and now I feel stupid I let it get to me. Now I don't care anymore about my diagnoses.

My mother says I do meet the criteria but I never asked her to define it. She just can't stick to what she says because she keeps changing her words. Just tells me she can't be honest and she opens up a little bit.



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31 Jan 2009, 3:55 pm

millie wrote:
Quote:
raggle-taggle-gypsy wrote:
Ticker wrote:
If there is language delay then the person doesn't have Aspergers. Its part of the DSM that there is no language delay. They have some other spectrum disorder. Its funny everyone seems to want to be an Aspie but I read about people on here and have met some in person who likely have Rhetts Syndrome but no they cling to their self diagnosis of Aspergers.

There aren't subtypes of Aspies. What makes us different are mostly our co-morbid conditions. Someone with AS and Schizo is going to be different from someone with AS and PTSD for instance. And also our life experience and way we were raised makes us different. Its not subtypes of Aspie. People are just different just like NTs aren't all the same.


Who made you resident psychiatrist? You took a pretty similar tone with me when I joined. Are you jealous that too many people are encroaching on your niche?



you know Ticker... you are treating the DSM-IV like gospel or the Bible. Ha ha ha.
Are you in the conservative old United States of Amereeca??
you see, in some countries, we are a little more forward thinking and the DSM-IV is now considered a joke. SO may i suggest you go back to some decent swatting and read up on all the different AS diagnostic criteria that exist around the world - as there are a few - and then take it from there.

I have been amazed at how many people posting on WP actually assume the DSM is the only criteria used for assessment. and often they have been from the U.S for some reason.....

ZAT eez zee dark ages hunny bunny.....to sink zee DSM is EET eez a leetle beehind zeee times.


I guess I'm backing the use of the DSM-IV-TR up then.

I believe that the DSM and ICD used to diagnose autism. These are the 2 internationally recognised systems of (mental) disorders and diseases.

We can only talk about disorders because we not only call them the same or similar, but because the disorder we talk about are actually the same or similar - and not completely different from country to country because each place can come up with their own completely unscientific definition.

There are enough laypeople as it is who're coming up with labels for disorders for which we already have common labels and definitions.

And there's really no reason to allow a language delay in AS.

It could be just part of classical autism then, because lots of people with classical autism will get an AS diagnosis if a set of criteria is used that allows any kind of language delay. If one uses Gillberg's criteria for AS (as some places do) almost half the people with classical autism or atypical autism as diagnosed by the ICD-10 could be diagnosed with AS.

What is AS then, if not the absence of a language delay plus the absence of a cognitive delay?

There should be no problem for those with a language delay to accept that they cannot have AS currently. Both are just labels.

(And I still think we should all just come under the header 'ASD'. I dearly hope it will be implemented in both the next DSM and next ICD.)


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31 Jan 2009, 4:01 pm

millie wrote:
Quote:
raggle-taggle-gypsy wrote:
Ticker wrote:
If there is language delay then the person doesn't have Aspergers. Its part of the DSM that there is no language delay. They have some other spectrum disorder. Its funny everyone seems to want to be an Aspie but I read about people on here and have met some in person who likely have Rhetts Syndrome but no they cling to their self diagnosis of Aspergers.

There aren't subtypes of Aspies. What makes us different are mostly our co-morbid conditions. Someone with AS and Schizo is going to be different from someone with AS and PTSD for instance. And also our life experience and way we were raised makes us different. Its not subtypes of Aspie. People are just different just like NTs aren't all the same.


Who made you resident psychiatrist? You took a pretty similar tone with me when I joined. Are you jealous that too many people are encroaching on your niche?



you know Ticker... you are treating the DSM-IV like gospel or the Bible. Ha ha ha.
Are you in the conservative old United States of Amereeca??
you see, in some countries, we are a little more forward thinking and the DSM-IV is now considered a joke. SO may i suggest you go back to some decent swatting and read up on all the different AS diagnostic criteria that exist around the world - as there are a few - and then take it from there.

I have been amazed at how many people posting on WP actually assume the DSM is the only criteria used for assessment. and often they have been from the U.S for some reason.....

ZAT eez zee dark ages hunny bunny.....to sink zee DSM is EET eez a leetle beehind zeee times.


You certainly DO like the sound ee! If THE standard is behind the times only because it is a standard, then progress can NEVER occur! Labels without meaning lead to CHAOS!

And you STILL think the US is 100% conservative, with such a LIBERAL running it? HECK, that jerk STILL wants to shut down "Guantanamo Bay" EVEN after they find that many terrorists that came from there CONTINUED, and were even PROMOTED! I wonder, how long will it take before the world looks at him as even being WORSE than what I now imagine? You certainly can't call such behavior conservative, by ANY meaning.

BTW I think they are ALL jokes, as the wording requires subjective interpretation, there are NO standards for that, and FEW seem to TRY to honor it ANYWAY! The BIGGEST problem though? THEY KEEP REWRITING IT! NOT to make it clearer, but to CHANGE IT IN A MATERIAL WAY!

Why don't you bug THEM about THAT before you laugh at people here for at least TRYING to honor it!?!?!?



31 Jan 2009, 4:26 pm

millie wrote:
Quote:
raggle-taggle-gypsy wrote:
Ticker wrote:
If there is language delay then the person doesn't have Aspergers. Its part of the DSM that there is no language delay. They have some other spectrum disorder. Its funny everyone seems to want to be an Aspie but I read about people on here and have met some in person who likely have Rhetts Syndrome but no they cling to their self diagnosis of Aspergers.

There aren't subtypes of Aspies. What makes us different are mostly our co-morbid conditions. Someone with AS and Schizo is going to be different from someone with AS and PTSD for instance. And also our life experience and way we were raised makes us different. Its not subtypes of Aspie. People are just different just like NTs aren't all the same.


Who made you resident psychiatrist? You took a pretty similar tone with me when I joined. Are you jealous that too many people are encroaching on your niche?



you know Ticker... you are treating the DSM-IV like gospel or the Bible. Ha ha ha.
Are you in the conservative old United States of Amereeca??
you see, in some countries, we are a little more forward thinking and the DSM-IV is now considered a joke. SO may i suggest you go back to some decent swatting and read up on all the different AS diagnostic criteria that exist around the world - as there are a few - and then take it from there.

I have been amazed at how many people posting on WP actually assume the DSM is the only criteria used for assessment. and often they have been from the U.S for some reason.....

ZAT eez zee dark ages hunny bunny.....to sink zee DSM is EET eez a leetle beehind zeee times.


I think it's used as a guideline. One time I diagnosed a Disney villain with AS as a joke to show how bull the AS criteria can be because she met it.



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31 Jan 2009, 4:34 pm

Which villain?