Are there any true geniuses here? (IQ over 155)

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ffsjeyuu
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24 May 2013, 2:03 am

I haven't yet had an IQ test but many who know me in a range of professions say that I am quite intelligent.
I have also received mixed reception on the effectiveness of IQ tests and have heard many psychologists and educators say its outdated and a hard way to perceive intelligence as a whole, and that many aspies could pass based simply on the way they think.



cyberdad
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24 May 2013, 6:48 am

I have some concern over the OP using the term "true" genius being defined solely by an IQ > 155?



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30 Jan 2016, 1:33 pm

A few years ago I had a unique opportunity. I registered for an overflow day for a Future Horizons autism conference in Dallas. That Saturday the "conference" with Tony Attwood was in the close quarters of the Richardson, TX City Hall community room. Since it was "only" Tony Attwood (certainly not a disappointment, because it was amazing) he arranged for Temple Grandin to call in and do a conference call, and answer some questions for us. I asked her a question about something she had said, which is closely related to what you said in your post, about Einstein.

You see, I was diagnosed BECAUSE I was having occupational problems. After being married for 11 years, a stay at home mom for most of that time, I was almost forty and somehow I couldn't seem to keep the most basic of jobs. I had a great work ethic. (Maybe too good, because one employer got suspicious and thought I would try to take off early since I had worked 40 hours before Friday.) I provided a good work product. (So good that a co worker at another place felt threatened and decided to target me and of course I had no idea my "friend" was back stabbing me and feeding the boss with things that were untrue.) I was diligent and worked with a sense of urgency. (And another office, which could politely be described as "lethargic and apathetic", didn't like that I moved quickly and worked diligently and, as one board member observed, "raised the bar to a new standard that the others can't appreciate") I sought an evaluation at the urging of a friend. After a very thorough evaluation (which included a full-scale IQ test) I was told my occupational problems were directly related to having AS. I felt liberated, because it meant that there was a reason. (Not that it was a great one, but at least there was something logical behind the fact that I was intelligent, good at what I did, worked hard, and yet I couldn't keep a job.) As far as the IQ? Performance IQ was 155, verbal was 122, resulting in 139. When gaps like that happen, they generally replace unusually low, outlying subscores with the performance score, because it's an indication that when there's a big drop there's something else in play, but that's really neither here nor there... The performance score is the "brain power" and when they saw that, they literally didn't know what to do with me. After my diagnosis they asked what kind of help I needed. I said I want a job. They said "We don't know how to place someone like you." I have talked to different employment agencies contracted by the SSA and it's like going into the post office. In 1956. (I finally understood what the county meant when they said they didn't know what to do with me.)

Fast forward back to that Saturday in Dallas and I'm in line to talk to Temple Grandin. I can't remember what I asked her exactly, but it had to do with the fact that I know I have skill, abilities, talents, gifts, intelligence... And yet I feel like I am on a treadmill occupationally. She had said during a videotaped presentation that we watched, "What is Einstein were a bus driver?" This is the comment that your post reminded me of. And when she said it in her presentation it struck me. Because there I had been, for years, struggling to stay employed. I knew I had the goods, I had the drive and the brain power and work ethic to to great things... And yet the success wasn't there. Why? Her advice was simple: Sell your work product, not yourself. Because people will judge YOU because people have opinions about this and that. But when you have an exceptional work product, they will overlook the quirks. Sell the work product first, then they have to take its creator if they want the product.

I think this is good advice. For me, it's a little different because what I have to offer is rooted in who I am (but that's another story). From a "success" standpoint I can say that being bright has had ZERO benefit as far as propelling me forward. I do think that being bright can help me to compensate for some difficulties I have, because I can think my way out of some problems. But it doesn't mean I don't have some big problems! I think it means that I do a great job of seeming like I don't have as many as I do. And, admittedly, I think being bright affords me the ability to generate income-producing ideas, although I have deficits which impede my ability to put them into motion the way I'd like to. If I was "this intelligent" and did not have AS I can assure you that I would be in a different place financially. (Which would be good!) But I would rather have the smarts and potential opportunity for resources (help) than unlimited resources (ability) without the ability to generate the ideas. What good is the car without the gas to drive it?

In interacting with others, from an intellectual standpoint, I do have some issues, yes. Here's why.

Everyone feels dumb sometimes. Everyone. I do, you do, we all do. But when we talk to people, everyone likes to think they are smart. If two people are talking, and one person thinks the other person is not making sense, they are more inclined to think the other person is either dumb or crazy. (Or something.) When I am talking to people, and I am talking about concepts that they have a hard time wrapping their head around, it sounds like nonsense. And, since I am not college degreed (yet!) it stands to reason that I must not know what I'm talking about. (Never mind that I like to do research on neuroscience "just because". That doesn't occur to anyone, and if it did, it would sound like crazy-person talk.) I have ADHD so sometimes I am a little scattered and I know that doesn't help things, but the biggest problem is that sometimes I talk about things that people have no understanding of and no desire to learn about. (And might not get without serious effort, even if they wanted to.) I remember being nine, and looking around my classroom. I can't remember what the class topic was but I remember wondering how it could be that everyone in the class was dimwitted. It didn't sound plausible, but I also knew that everyone else was struggling with something that was simple to me. Back in 4th grade, I remember my teachers gave the class an achievement test. After the results, they pulled me aside and told me they lost mine and made me take it again, under direct supervision. "You did even better than the last time!" They thought I had cheated. Out of the whole class, they assumed mine could not be right. I was reading at a college level in 4th grade, but I can't remember what else it said... Just that it was unbelievably high and I "didn't seem like the brilliant type."

This attitude continues as an adult. I was hand picked to be a part of Advancing Futures for Adults with Autism, which worked to create public policy which was adopted by Obama not long ago. Anyway, when I arrived at the consortium for the meeting, I was in my bell-bottoms, platform wedges, checking out the donuts and checking my text messages. The senators and judges and other notables in the room probably assumed I was lost. But the facilitator at our table, knowing I was there for a good reason and seeing the disapproving looks my way, asked me an autism-related question. Typical to form, my gaze shifted and my bubbly demeanor became serious and I said something I can't remember but it was my answer... And I had completely disarmed my previously judgmental table-mates. By the end of the day they were asking for help with their kids and I had made some solid board commitments. But until I had my opportunity, I was probably misjudged, and clearly underestimated.

I know this is a long answer, and my apologies for that... You question, while a simple one, is really a topic which touches a lot of issues. It's not just about intelligence, but success. I tell my son all the time that being bright isn't going to make him successful, and he knows that. But it can be a useful tool. 90% of people with ASD (who want to work) are under or unemployed. That is a dire statistic. And I think it says more about stigma and a lack of autism acceptance than it does about the success of being bright, or working hard, or the non-stigma related "deficits" that people with autism have.



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30 Jan 2016, 3:02 pm

I've been tested 160.


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zeertheseer
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30 Jan 2016, 3:03 pm

I WOULD take the MENSA test, but... that sounds like a lot of work, and similar to my school life... NO THANKS lol


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Pieplup
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30 Jan 2016, 5:47 pm

zeertheseer wrote:
I WOULD take the MENSA test, but... that sounds like a lot of work, and similar to my school life... NO THANKS lol

:lol:


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30 Jan 2016, 9:51 pm

I'm...comfortably above the threshold. However I cannot:
-learn a second language
-understand music.
-grasp certain math concepts.
-understand people intuitively.
-understand most spoken conversations.
-do sports without injuries due to clumsiness.
-draw/sketch anything alive.
-often remember conversations from the prior day.
-find my keys, phone or pants.
-do much better than survive in an office environment.
-not scare people off with my odd way of seeing things.
-survive in a loud or busy environment without shutting down.
...and the list goes on and on.

Basically, what I can do is excel at written English language comprehension and do certain types of logical or visual (ie word or picture) problems better than most. And that's really all standardized IQ tests measure, due to their nature. Not all that impressive when you look at the bigger picture.


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31 Jan 2016, 8:29 am

I was tested at 10 or 11 and scored 156. My executive functioning difficulties mean I can't do anything magical with it.


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29 Jun 2019, 8:49 am

Having scored 154 in a postal test (MENSA) in my twenties, I may have once qualified, but a third bout of Post Viral Chronic Fatigue in 2006 left me with few memories and much reduced imagination and short term memory (rather important for problem solving!) so I’m no longer in that league. Still recovering, I’m pleased with the way my SUDOKU has improved from level 8, @ nine months ago, to level 15, but when I read posts attributed to me before the illness, I’m in awe of that guy! I had no idea at the time that I was anything special, but, now that he seems like a different person, I can see I had immense presence, and it’s no wonder “autism experts” steered clear of me! Not so much Alpha Male, as Alpha Menace!



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29 Jun 2019, 9:19 am

I score between the 120-140 range, depending on the test. On the WAIS (Weschler Adult Intelligence Scale), however, I scored only average because I completely bombed out on the block design test. It was humiliating, to say the least.



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29 Jun 2019, 9:53 am

I only ever did one official test at school as a teenager. I was never told the result . Taking online tests and grouping them as non-verbal or verbal , I do significantly better on the latter .

Psychiatrists over the years have described me as very intelligent .



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30 Jun 2019, 1:10 am

My WAIS scores: GAI 145, FSIQ 129. In grade school my Otis-Lennon GAI was 146. Both of those scores would qualify me for Mensa.

Not a genius, but considered substantially smarter than your above average bear.

I don't think overall intelligence matters that much. It helps you learn certain things faster, but breakthroughs come from experience. Richard Feynman famously only scored 125 on an IQ test, but was amazingly influential in one of the most intellectually difficult fields.

It's like basketball. Being over 7 feet tall helps play the game, but most of the best-ever players have been shorter than 7 feet.


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30 Jun 2019, 1:32 am

far from a genius, but my scores [WAIS] were all over the map from mentally ret*d to gifted, depending on how i felt on the day of the test.



cyberdad
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30 Jun 2019, 1:50 am

Antrax wrote:
Richard Feynman famously only scored 125 on an IQ test, but was amazingly influential in one of the most intellectually difficult fields..

Feynman probably also had perseverance in face of adversity (measured using the AQ index) and ability to regulate his emotions when he failed (measured using the EQ index).

My WAIS is 129 but like Blabs my sub component scores are all over the place so depends how I feel on the day...



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30 Jun 2019, 1:52 am

i tend to believe that a true genius doesn't fluctuate but is sharp always. a true genius shoots at targets the rest of us can't even see or conceive of to begin with.



cyberdad
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30 Jun 2019, 1:54 am

auntblabby wrote:
i tend to believe that a true genius doesn't fluctuate but is sharp always. a true genius shoots at targets the rest of us can't even see or conceive of to begin with.

Exactly....I spoke of Nicola Tesla in another thread...I can't think of a more perfect example...