I am an "indigo child" (Try and prove me wrong!)

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dusekbr
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29 Mar 2009, 1:03 am

I assumed WP would be a little more open minded to this, but you guys just might be even denser than the majority of NTs.

Go to mininova.org and search "Indigo Evolution" - Not much science in there, but plenty of emotional appeal for you drama queens.

As I have reached and passed self-actualization I'm able to process your "theory of mind." When and if you reach this stage you will as well. It is humorous to me when someone accuses me of "gloating" despite I am clearly not. It is most humorous because the only reason they assume I would do have this behavior is because it is the behavior they would likely assume. Keep sticking around this thread and you'll learn more applied psychology.

Since you are all too lazy to even go to google and search yourselves; I will just post some tid-bits here since you your too lazy/incapable of processing all the information in a short period of time (until proven otherwise.)

All quotes from wikipedia..

Quote:
In the New Age movement, indigo children are children who are believed to represent a higher state of human evolution. The term itself is a reference to the belief that such children have an indigo-colored aura.[1] Beliefs concerning the exact nature of indigo children vary, with some believing that they have paranormal abilities such as the ability to read minds, and others that they are distinguished from non-indigo children merely by more conventional traits such as increased empathy and creativity.

There is no scientific support for these claims.[2]

Some alleged indigo children exhibit precocious cognitive development and are almost certainly intellectually gifted; i.e., they have high IQs and superior general intelligence. The intellectually gifted often display unusual sensitivity, empathy, precocious moral sensibility, as well as greater-than-normal body symmetry. To a person unfamiliar with gifted children, or to an adherent of New Age principles, a child expressing these traits might appear to have paranormal abilities, or possibly a higher level of evolutionary development.



Quote:
According to Nancy Ann Tappe, indigo children are here to build the bridge to the future and show us tomorrow[10]. They are hypersensitives who are highly empathic and intuitive by nature. They can detect, or are in tune with, the thoughts and feelings of others. They are also highly introspective and thus are very self-aware and have a clear sense of self-definition. They are often filled with a strong sense of purpose and the feeling that they need to make a significant difference in the world.

According to Tappe, they are strong-willed, independent thinkers who prefer to be self-guided rather than directed by others. They tend to think outside the box, brilliant and love working with the challenges of mechanics. Computers often are their favorite toys and learning tools. Parents of these children must guide them, not teach them.

The Indigo has four distinct personality patterns. Tappe's definition of these patterns are 1)The Artist, 2)The Conceptualist, 3)The Humanist, 4) The Catalyst.[[1]].

Movement is required to keep them better focused.


Quote:
Psychologist Russell Barkley has said the New Age movement has yet to produce empirical evidence of the existence of indigo children, and that the 25 traits most commonly attributed to them, he believes, are so vague that they could describe "most of the people most of the time" and were reminiscent of the Forer effect. Barkley also expressed concern that labeling a disruptive child an "indigo" may delay proper diagnosis and treatment that may help the child.[17][18] Others have advised that many of the traits of Indigo children could be more prosaically interpreted as simple arrogance and selfish individualism, which parents with certain New Age beliefs may misperceive.


Quote:



Those are just a few of the traits that supposedly make these beings unique and superior to the rest of humanity. But wait, some of these things sound familiar. Could it be that psychologists have already identified such a condition? The traits of Indigo Children and Starseeds (I will use the term "Indigo" for both from this point on for sake of simplicity) sound a lot like symptoms of Asperger's Syndrome.

Asperger's Syndrome is a an autism spectrum disorder. People with this disorder ("aspies") show difficulties in social interaction and may have problems with sensory integration. Generally, aspies feel different from others, as they have difficulty relating to other people. They also tend to be extremely sensitive to sensory stimuli, such as light, temperature, and sound. Aspies also tend to have narrowly focused obsessions or interests (which could include space or spiritual matters). Frequently, especially before Asperger's Syndrome was well know, children with the disorder are diagnosed with ADHD.

It seems as though parents who push the Indigo theory are either uneducated, or simply do not want to admit that there may be something "wrong" with their child. These parents want so much to have a child that is "special" and "better" than other children that they are willing to believe even the most illogical of ideas. Perhaps admitting that their child is somehow "damaged" makes them feel like failures as parents. The same goes for people who discovered this theory on their own, and would rather believe that they are some metaphysical super-being than to have something wrong with them. Whatever the reasoning behind it, these kinds of beliefs do more harm than good.

Having a child with special needs does not intrinsically make you a bad parent, but neglecting the needs of your child while instead pushing some fantasy world on them does. Children need support and guidance, not some fable about why they are different and better than everyone else. The Indigo theory allows parents to ignore the real cause of their child's behavior, and rids them of the responsibility of getting treatment for their child. The Indigo theory is as irresponsible as it is illogical.

Parents who have children who display these traits need to have their child evaluated by a professional. If a child does have Asperger's or autism, they need to get the proper care and treatment. Having AS or autism doesn't mean that they are "damaged," it simply means that they are different. But, they are not interdimensional beings or aliens. Accept your child for who they are, without trying to raise them to super-human standards. They are simply human beings like everyone else. If you let a child believe that they are an alien or some other such nonsense, and they don't grow out of it by time they reach adulthood, they will stand no chance of being able to function in the real world.
Quote:



McTell wrote:
I hope this doesn't sound like blunt rudeness, but - where is this science? You cannot simply answer the question "What is scientific about it" by claiming correlations and saying "Genetics."

A link would be quite nice, and certainly appreciated, if you know of any information on the internet that is weightily backed by science.


I got some for you in a just a second here =)


AnnieK wrote:
Ah, so, "indigos" are orangutans (48 chromosomes)?

That explains a lot.


http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa075974

http://www.childrenshospital.org/clinic ... 925P9.html

Your lame attack effects me not, but you did just insult anyone and everyone autistic.

amazon_television wrote:
If you need to attach a label to yourself such as "indigo" (this discussion was the first I ever heard of that), in light of the above reasons that just sounds like massive insecurity to me, whether it's "true" or not, but whatever, that's your prerogative, and more power to you.

No one can "prove" you wrong, nor can you "prove" yourself correct, in a scenario/discussion in which scientific "proof", at present, does not exist. I don't understand the uproar here, if it makes you feel good to be "indigo", you can be whatever you like if you believe in it enough. Once again, that's your deal, not ours.


I believe your intentions to be good, but hear me out.

Why do I feel the need to attach a label? Why do people call themselves Aspies? Why do you feel the need to label you what you ARE. You feel its a massive security because your not even on the same level of Marlow's hierarchy of needs.

From wikipedia..
Quote:
Near the end of his life Maslow revealed that there was a level on the hierarchy that was above self-actualization: self-transcendence[7]. "[Transcenders] may be said to be much more often aware of the realm of Being (B-realm and B-cognition), to be living at the level of Being… to have unitive consciousness and “plateau experience” (serene and contemplative B-cognitions rather than climactic ones) … and to have or to have had peak experience (mystic, sacral, ecstatic) with illuminations or insights. Analysis of reality or cognitions which changed their view of the world and of themselves, perhaps occasionally, perhaps as a usual thing."[8]
- AKA "SELF-INDIGOIZATION."

pandd wrote:
Do you have any idea how very easy it is to check for extra chromosomes? It is well within the limits of even the most pedestrian legitimate biological research

Do the majority of human beings experience synthetically? Ie.. seeing sound, feeling mechanical motion?
No, and neither do the majority of autistic people, and of course some non-autistic people do.


I'll get the test done in the near future.

I have been experiencing synthesia my entire life, but I've never been aware. How do you know what someone else's pain feels like? How do you know that you and I see the "same" blue? We have different sense, but we just learn to be constant with labeling them the same. I was tried to fathom that as a small child and to this day I meet intelligent people who often seem to be trapped in the box.
kittenmeow wrote:
Welcome. You're a feisty spirit too.
I don't feel any need to ambush you.

However, for some reason I just had a vague memory about a movie from the 80's called Children of the corn. I don't remember movies in great detail but I think it was the blonde hair and blue eyes that made me remember pieces of the film.

Maybe it was another movie.


Native Americans refer to "indigo children" as "children of the sun."

AnnieK wrote:
Also, as I pointed out having *more* chromosomes doesn't necessarily mean you are more intelligent or talented. Orangutans and the tobacco plant have more chromosomes than humans. Still, it is expected of people with little understanding of science but try to co-opt buzz words from science in order to provide some sort of basis for tricking people.
.


I never said otherwise. I don't even bother reading anything you write so a more efficient use of your time would be to close this tab.

carltcwc wrote:
I think theres a relation to mental disorders and "indigo childern". Indigos are basically psychics. I Have a lot of indigo traits but dont have blue eyes, and my aura is usually green. I have profitic dreams and other psychic abilities too. I think that people who have mental "disorders" have areas of streangths in other areas than where they have things that they have a hard time with and for many of us its psychic abilities.


It's not magic, it's science.



AnnieK
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29 Mar 2009, 1:10 am

Quote:
AnnieK wrote:
Also, as I pointed out having *more* chromosomes doesn't necessarily mean you are more intelligent or talented. Orangutans and the tobacco plant have more chromosomes than humans. Still, it is expected of people with little understanding of science but try to co-opt buzz words from science in order to provide some sort of basis for tricking people.
.


I never said otherwise. I don't even bother reading anything you write so a more efficient use of your time would be to close this tab.


Oh, you mean you already forgot about the bit where you wrote that indigo children have more chromosomes than the normal human and that's why they have their special "talents"?

And those links are (1) about autistics not "indigo children", including autistics with *mental retardation* and (2) not about extra chromosomes or activating extra parts of the chromosomes like what you claimed.

*Roll eyes*

What I find hilarious is that you just extensively quote something without even properly reading it. Why do I say you didn't properly read it? Because it basically says people who push the indigo children thing are basically wrong. I quote from *your* post (bolding mine):

Quote:
It seems as though parents who push the Indigo theory are either uneducated, or simply do not want to admit that there may be something "wrong" with their child. These parents want so much to have a child that is "special" and "better" than other children that they are willing to believe even the most illogical of ideas. Perhaps admitting that their child is somehow "damaged" makes them feel like failures as parents. The same goes for people who discovered this theory on their own, and would rather believe that they are some metaphysical super-being than to have something wrong with them. Whatever the reasoning behind it, these kinds of beliefs do more harm than good.

Having a child with special needs does not intrinsically make you a bad parent, but neglecting the needs of your child while instead pushing some fantasy world on them does. Children need support and guidance, not some fable about why they are different and better than everyone else. The Indigo theory allows parents to ignore the real cause of their child's behavior, and rids them of the responsibility of getting treatment for their child. The Indigo theory is as irresponsible as it is illogical.

Parents who have children who display these traits need to have their child evaluated by a professional. If a child does have Asperger's or autism, they need to get the proper care and treatment. Having AS or autism doesn't mean that they are "damaged," it simply means that they are different. But, they are not interdimensional beings or aliens. Accept your child for who they are, without trying to raise them to super-human standards. They are simply human beings like everyone else. If you let a child believe that they are an alien or some other such nonsense, and they don't grow out of it by time they reach adulthood, they will stand no chance of being able to function in the real world.


Hey, thanks for that.

I do notice that you still have not posted *any* links to any scientific studies backing up your claims about *indigo children* despite repeated requests that you do so.



makuranososhi
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29 Mar 2009, 1:24 am

A reminder to those of all opinions that you can attack the concept, not the person. This post is already feels out of place in GAD and not PPR at this point... *whistles*

To the OP, I do not see how a series of quotations at the beginning of your post that repeatedly state that there is no proof or evidence for the very thing you are proposing to being proving. The suggestion has been made before here about an association between the spectrum and "indigo children" which met similar skepticism from what I recall. In reading the provided articles, I found nothing suggesting additional chromosomes, only the recognition of there being either additional or missing material at one point on a single chromosome. Your point about the need for labels is interesting, but I do not understand how the need validates the authenticity of your claims. This transcendence that is described can be found in many cultures dating back for centuries upon centuries; it seems strange to think of it in the terms proposed. Personally, I don't ascribe to belief in "indigo children" - and I don't believe in normal either. There are exceptions and the exceptional in potential in various mixtures across existence, all with some gifts and some curses... frequently in proportion from my own experience.


M.


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dusekbr
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29 Mar 2009, 1:34 am

http://www.metagifted.org

I can't prove my hypothesis in the sense that we can't prove the Theory of Evolution.

But, for the keen of eye, the clues are too strong not to believe in evolution.

Humans evolve and I'm one of the latest in evolution.



AnnieK
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29 Mar 2009, 1:42 am

dusekbr wrote:
http://www.metagifted.org

I can't prove my hypothesis in the sense that we can't prove the Theory of Evolution.

But, for the keen of eye, the clues are too strong not to believe in evolution.

Humans evolve and I'm one of the latest in evolution.


Whatever makes ya feel better.

As I said, believe whatever whacked out beliefs you want to believe but don't try to drag science down with you.

BTW, how is your communion with your alien overlord/forebear going?



makuranososhi
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29 Mar 2009, 2:19 am

dusekbr wrote:
http://www.metagifted.org

I can't prove my hypothesis in the sense that we can't prove the Theory of Evolution.

But, for the keen of eye, the clues are too strong not to believe in evolution.

Humans evolve and I'm one of the latest in evolution.


If that works for you, by all means. However, you've provided nothing akin to the sort of observable data and information that is used to create the basis for the theory of evolution. Beyond the conjuncture and abstraction is hope, and that's not a bad thing... just disagree with you about it being evolution. We're all different from one another, whether on the spectrum or off, wise or blissfully ignorant, young and old. These variations fulfills roles and provide evolutionary opportunities should the event and possibility present itself but the direction taken will depend on the challenges faced, not any specific traits that is the secret key to supremacy.


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ZodRau
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29 Mar 2009, 2:19 am

pandd wrote:
dusekbr wrote:
As far as I know there is no criteria. The bleeding edge research suggests we may possibly have 2 extra chromosomes or have a more "activated" DNA.

Do you have any idea how very easy it is to check for extra chromosomes? It is well within the limits of even the most pedestrian legitimate biological research.


When I was first tested 28 years ago, it took a hospital admission, an IV line, and a blood-draw every 5 minutes for a period of 24 hours, with the results being sent off to a specialized lab.. A year ago, the same test took one small blood draw at my GPs office, and was processed in his office's lab.

I have got an extra chromosome, but I'm more partial to purple.



kittenmeow
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29 Mar 2009, 2:34 am

This somehow seems false. Someone just instigating and perhaps perceives aspies as arrogant so is using an exaggeration to mirror what they see in aspies but declaring themself as "indigo" to prove some point.

I'm not really buying it. If someone with aspergers pissed you off, fine go take it up with that person. No need to take it out on everyone here.



dusekbr
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29 Mar 2009, 3:26 am

kittenmeow - I have a rare "mild variety" of symptoms correlated with AS. There is great synergy in the science of autism and much is too be learned from "indigos" that will benefit diagnosis accuracy and treatment options to other areas of the spectrum. Lots of people think of the spectrum as a linear line and I disagree. Linearly it implies that one side is more "functioning" than the others. I view the spectrum as a sphere because evolution is like a tree and lots of plants have the sphere shape like so many other beautiful things in nature/science/truth.

Initially I never would have thought aspie's would be so hypocritical of someone else on the spectrum. You just can't fathom that my mental age with respect to a development above self-actualization is higher than yours. I have theory of mind and I because I have completed self-actualization I am able to analyze your current phase better than even you yourself on occasion. This is because your emotions trigger defense mechanisms and your subconscious mind filters out information to your ego (what you perceive as real.)



makuranososhi
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29 Mar 2009, 3:44 am

Could you explain what hypocrisy you see? I'm confused, as while there are many critical comments, I do not understand the nature of that statement... You've claimed theory of mind, you've claimed to be self-actualized beyond the understanding of many here; I would ask for some sort of proof, something quantifiable that might be relevant to the conversation. A series of claims do little to substantiate what you describe as being anything other than your own experience, your own beliefs - which you are entitled to, but may want to consider that what is truth for you is not truth for others. That you seem to presume you know better than anyone else makes it a challenge to have a conversation of length as no matter the argument, your "knowledge" trumps any observable fact or personal experience.


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29 Mar 2009, 4:03 am

I do think there's something in this indigo and crystal stuff. I just haven't figured it out yet. I'm a third-generation agnostic and a gut-level atheist. I've never seen a ghost or anything remotely paranormal, and I see no evidence of deities. I haven't read up on the indigos much, and what I've seen includes a fair amount of wacky-ness. Still, I think there's something intuitive going on. Some emerging awareness that doesn't work in the common language or modern understanding, so a fairy tale emerges that fits the vibes, even if it doesn't make much sense. If I ever figure it out, I'll let you all know. Then again, if I ever figure it out, I probably won't be able to translate.

Anyway, I wouldn't discount it, just because it's fuzzy or unproven or incomplete. Just think of it as cosmic brainstorming. If we toss things around without condemnation or ridicule, maybe something useful will emerge.

And if they want to be pals, why not? It seems like a natural alliance. We need all the friends we can get. It's not like our status in the eyes of the mainstream will decrease because we associate with weirdos.



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29 Mar 2009, 4:12 am

I'm open to possibility; when things are assured without substantiation is when I become leery and suspect. There is so much in this universe... there is more that we don't know we don't know than the sum of all our knowledge put together. When there are flat declarations of fact, then it invokes imagery of snake oil salesmen and patent medicine 'doctors' of the western US in the 19th century. Does that make sense, Tahitiii, at least from a personal angle?


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kittenmeow
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29 Mar 2009, 4:19 am

dusekbr wrote:
kittenmeow - I have a rare "mild variety" of symptoms correlated with AS. There is great synergy in the science of autism and much is too be learned from "indigos" that will benefit diagnosis accuracy and treatment options to other areas of the spectrum. Lots of people think of the spectrum as a linear line and I disagree. Linearly it implies that one side is more "functioning" than the others. I view the spectrum as a sphere because evolution is like a tree and lots of plants have the sphere shape like so many other beautiful things in nature/science/truth.

Initially I never would have thought aspie's would be so hypocritical of someone else on the spectrum. You just can't fathom that my mental age with respect to a development above self-actualization is higher than yours. I have theory of mind and I because I have completed self-actualization I am able to analyze your current phase better than even you yourself on occasion. This is because your emotions trigger defense mechanisms and your subconscious mind filters out information to your ego (what you perceive as real.)


You fail. You have no idea what you are really talking about because you don't know me. You have no idea. Just because you are able to speak highly of yourself doesn't make it true. I don't care about your abundance in confidence and your self-actualization because you can babble all you want. If you can't provide anything relevant to back up your claims and instead boost yourself up while attempting to push others into some pre-fabricated mold your own ego is generating then perhaps you really aren't as much of an indigo as you think.

Also, if it is true, it would be more to do with the mind rather than physical traits, you and the blond hair and blue eyes. Sounds like someone filled your head up with lies. What would you say if you met someone who was black and had the theorized indigo traits? Would you say, "Oh yeah, well you don't have blonde hair and blue eyes!"

Give it up. You're full of it. Even if you don't think you are, you really are. There are way too many people who think because they have an over inflated ego and confidence that those two traits alone will also make up for the lack of honesty and backing up their words with actions.

I am aware of picking up on things that seem unusal to others. I am aware of picking up on devious mean people and it seems more so than others. As a result because of how annoying it can be when having to watch these scenerios unfold in front of my face while my BS meter is going off the charts, I either walk away or I let that person know that they are lying.

Usually because of how blunt and "socially incorrect" it is, the ones who surround such manipulators take the manipulators side and I'm told to go away.

Later it is proven, that person really was a devious liar. I don't get apologies but it's happen so many times that it's not a coincidence.

Does this make me special and unique? Not sure and if as a result I started to think it did and I turned out to be like you, I think I'd rather not think it's special or unique.

You do not tell me falsely of what I am or not. You have no idea if I lack theory of mind. You have no idea if somewhere in my life, I started learning. It can be learned. You have no idea if I have alot of empathy or just a little but I don't see alot of this "empathy" in so called normal people. Where is the empathy when those that have been rich all of their lives make fun of the homeless?

Where is the empathy shown for understanding not everyone loves bright lights and can handle some sounds and once it's revealed they just shrug and keep the lights bright and continue making the same sound that doesn't bother them but bothers you.

Where oh where can it be?

Now you stop kidding yourself.



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29 Mar 2009, 4:29 am

Anyone want to explain the similarities between this:

1. They come into the world with a feeling of royalty (and often act like it).
2. They have a feeling of "deserving to be here," and are surprised when others don't share that.
3. Self-worth is not a big issue. They often tell the parents "who they are."
4. They have difficulty with absolute authority (authority without explanation or choice).
5. They simply will not do certain things; for example, waiting in line is difficult for them.
6. They get frustrated with systems that are ritual-oriented and don't require creative thought.
7. They often see better ways of doing things, both at home and in school, which makes them seem like "system busters" (nonconforming to any system).
8. They seem antisocial unless they are with their own kind. If there are no others of like consciousness around them, they often turn inward, feeling like no other human understands them. School is often extremely difficult for them socially.
9. They will not respond to "guilt" discipline ("Wait till your father gets home and finds out what you did").
10. They are not shy in letting you know what they need.

and this:

Characteristics of people with antisocial personality disorder may include:[citation needed]

* Persistent lying or stealing
* Superficial charm
* Apparent lack of remorse or empathy; inability to care about hurting others
* Inability to keep jobs or stay in school
* Impulsivity and/or recklessness[4][5]
* Lack of realistic, long-term goals -- an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals
* Inability to make or keep friends, or maintain relationships such as marriage
* Poor behavioral controls -- expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper
* Narcissism, elevated self-appraisal or a sense of extreme entitlement
* A persistent agitated or depressed feeling (dysphoria)
* A history of childhood conduct disorders
* Recurring difficulties with the law
* Tendency to violate the boundaries and "rights" of others
* Substance abuse
* Aggressive, often violent behavior; prone to getting involved in fights
* Inability to tolerate boredom
* Disregard for the safety of self or others
* People with a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder often experience difficulties with authority figures.[6]

?



makuranososhi
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29 Mar 2009, 5:09 am

Just one more thought... no one is going to 'prove' that you're not an "indigo child" any more than you are going to prove another member isn't "Christian" or another deeply held belief. If that is your belief, then I do wish you the most success possible with it. To assume that others will inherently agree, however, may prove to be unreasonable.


M.


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For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

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