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magz
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29 Mar 2021, 11:17 am

 ! magz wrote:
Please, stop right now.


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magz
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29 Mar 2021, 11:21 am

Reminder of the rules:

alex wrote:
The following activities are unacceptable on WrongPlanet:

(...)

2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.
I invite new members to read the whole: viewtopic.php?t=73832
PPR and other subfora guidelines: viewtopic.php?t=204613
The Haven rules: viewtopic.php?t=297515


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29 Mar 2021, 11:35 am

Back to the topic -

Here's a brilliant article written by a former ABA practitioner about this topic.

https://neuroclastic.com/2020/06/02/i-a ... Q2AJPw5bMw


Edit by Issy: I removed the long quote.



Last edited by IsabellaLinton on 29 Mar 2021, 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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29 Mar 2021, 11:56 am

I had to stop reading when I saw the words "Judge Rotenberg Center" before I was triggered into another days-long simmering rage.

By all other accounts I have read, that place is worse than a military boot camp, in that it tries to teach unthinking obedience using barbaric methods, and it has become the embodiment of everything bad about ABA.


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29 Mar 2021, 12:44 pm

Fnord wrote:
What you are describing is autistic behavior -- black-and-white thinking, failure to perceive nuances, failure to recognize behavioral cues, sweeping generalizations, et cetera.  Please adjust your thinking and try again.  Thank you.

In my experience, "black-and-white" thinking, failure to perceive nuances, and sweeping generalizations are common among people in general, not just autistic people (and certainly not just NT's either). They are a staple of nearly all political propaganda, for example.

Some specific kinds of "black-and-white" thinking may be more common among autistic people, however. See this old WP thread about "black-and-white" thinking, especially this post here. See also this more recent thread.

But when Hitler, in Mein Kampf, criticized the WWI-era German government for being insufficiently black-and-white in its war propaganda, I'm sure his problem with it wasn't that the propaganda didn't have enough appeal to autistic people in particular.


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magz
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29 Mar 2021, 1:52 pm

Fnord wrote:
I had to stop reading when I saw the words "Judge Rotenberg Center" before I was triggered into another days-long simmering rage.

By all other accounts I have read, that place is worse than a military boot camp, in that it tries to teach unthinking obedience using barbaric methods, and it has become the embodiment of everything bad about ABA.

I'll just quote this for you:
Quote:
We give JRC legitimacy, and then have the gall to try and distance our industry from those same practices when our critics mention them!

Our tolerance for JRC inhibits our growth in other ways. Because we tolerate JRC within our profession, we have a code of ethics that also tolerates JRC, and as a result ALSO would tolerate virtually every bad act done in the history of ABA, in 2020.


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ASPartOfMe
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29 Mar 2021, 5:00 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Back to the topic -

Here's a brilliant article written by a former ABA practitioner about this topic.

https://neuroclastic.com/2020/06/02/i-a ... Q2AJPw5bMw


Edit by Issy: I removed the long quote.

Thank you for posting this. "Thank you" is not exactly right considering the disturbing content but I can't think of anything else ATM.

Speaking of the Judge Rotenberg Torture Center and ABA conferences
ABA Conference Symposium To Bring Back Shock Treatments


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29 Mar 2021, 5:38 pm

Back to the origional topic. One can mask traits, but one eventually ends up in a mental mess when one burns out and if I had known the dangers of masking for soo long I could have avoided the mess I got into.


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29 Mar 2021, 6:14 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Back to the origional topic. One can mask traits, but one eventually ends up in a mental mess when one burns out and if I had known the dangers of masking for soo long I could have avoided the mess I got into.
Is there a difference between "masking" and "coping"?

I can see where it would be stressful trying to hide Spectrum traits. But I also can see that you might be happier if you learned how to cope with the Spectrum traits--so they didn't matter as much.

And regarding something else earlier in the thread...my understanding is that once on the Spectrum always on the Spectrum, but the severity level might change. (I assume if you got good at coping then NTs would think your Spectrum traits were less obtrusive.)


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Mountain Goat
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29 Mar 2021, 6:22 pm

Double Retired wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
Back to the origional topic. One can mask traits, but one eventually ends up in a mental mess when one burns out and if I had known the dangers of masking for soo long I could have avoided the mess I got into.
Is there a difference between "masking" and "coping"?

I can see where it would be stressful trying to hide Spectrum traits. But I also can see that you might be happier if you learned how to cope with the Spectrum traits--so they didn't matter as much.

And regarding something else earlier in the thread...my understanding is that once on the Spectrum always on the Spectrum, but the severity level might change. (I assume if you got good at coping then NTs would think your Spectrum traits were less obtrusive.)


One reason I masked to avoid being told off for stimming. I would be constantly watching every bodily movement I made while in school. It took great concentration to do. My schoolwork suffered as a result.


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magz
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30 Mar 2021, 1:55 am

Double Retired wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
Back to the origional topic. One can mask traits, but one eventually ends up in a mental mess when one burns out and if I had known the dangers of masking for soo long I could have avoided the mess I got into.
Is there a difference between "masking" and "coping"?

I can see where it would be stressful trying to hide Spectrum traits. But I also can see that you might be happier if you learned how to cope with the Spectrum traits--so they didn't matter as much.

And regarding something else earlier in the thread...my understanding is that once on the Spectrum always on the Spectrum, but the severity level might change. (I assume if you got good at coping then NTs would think your Spectrum traits were less obtrusive.)

Masking: carefully not having a grimace of pain in noisy environment.
Coping: Having a pair of earplugs in my pocket and explaining that I'm very sensitive to noise and the level here is above my pain threshold.


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30 Mar 2021, 9:29 am

Mountain Goat & magz: Both good posts.

Stimming in school reminds me of problems I've heard from the ADHD realm.

My bride is ADHD and the one childhood friend I still have is also. A year ago or so I heard them talking about their early years in school and...
                     8O

Upon comparing notes on their early years in school they both noted they had trouble in school because they would get distracted. It turns out both of them had had teachers who tried to address the problem by putting them in a chair right next to the teacher's desk.

It didn't work with either of them. My friend says his attention still wandered. My bride said she used to leave the chair and physically wander!

P.S. OK, Neurodiverse folk. We are stranded on Earth but...for us...it is the Wrong Planet. I don't know what planet an Aspie belongs on but might the ADHD folk belong in hyperspace?


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11 Apr 2021, 4:17 am

aspieprincess123 wrote:
It's a crazy question but can autism be conditioned out of a person as in by corrective behaviour.

I tried reading up and it appears it cannot we can learn coping strategies but you still have autistic behaviour at times.

Reason why I ask is I'm sick of my autistic traits getting in the way of my life like when I get stressed I have behavioural meltdowns or my autistic traits make my life hard for me.

My partner once mentioned that he used to be autistic but his real dad put him though conditioning to stop his autism from being an issue. He don't talk to his real dad anymore.

I remember asking once during his therapy what he meant by conditioning and he said his read dad used to put loud static on headphones and force him to listen to it for hours at a time to reduce his sound sensory.

He also mentioned when he did something considered autistic he used to get his knuckles rapped till he learn to mask almost to a NT level. He was such at a NT level that when I first met him I said he was lying about having autism and he ended up showing me his diagnosis to shut me up.

Course now with what's happened with his grief and epilepsy his autistic traits are showing more often though his mum still claims he's cured and the traits are merely cause he's mirroring me.

No it cant be conditioned out of someone.Its lifelong.



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24 Apr 2021, 6:17 am

Autism can't be conditioned out of you any more than a cat can be conditioned into being a dog.


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25 Apr 2021, 11:06 pm

I had bad sound sensitivities when I was little but I was forced to be in environments where there were loud noises like working with & around machines & power tools & I kinda learned to tune noise out. When in those environments I tried to focus on the task as best I could.

Some of my autistic behavior like having meltdowns got a lot better after I moved out of my parents & in with my girlfriend. She is a lot more accepting of my behavior than my parents were. My parents on my case about things complaining about various things related to me majorly frustrated me & made me feel unwanted which of corse negatively affected my mental health which triggered bad meltdowns. It's kinda a negative cycle. I still had plenty of bad meltdowns with my girlfriend but they were still a lot less than living with my parents. Getting on a good combo of psych meds also helped reduce my meltdowns. Autism can have lots of comorbid disorders like depression, anxiety, OCD, & moodieness. Those disorders might be learned behaviors as a result of us facing various problems in life due to our autism instead of being part of our autism. Those things can make our autism appear worse. Getting on the rite meds to treat those things has been a huge help to me which helps keep me more stable & less likely to meltdown.


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01 May 2021, 2:40 am

I was thankfully diagnosed at a young age, but have never really been 'conditioned' out of my Autism. Just had to find a way to balance everything out over the years.

I had speech therapy which is where I received my diagnosis, because (from what my parents told me) I used to get frustrated that I couldn't properly articulate my thoughts, feelings and emotions. By 'properly', I mean, at one point, I'd simply parrot talk advertisements as a means of communication.

There was times where my Mother especially was alarmed by how my Speech Therapist would attempt to force me to engage in eye contact by lightly moving my face and repeating "Look at me", which in turn I vaguely remember it making me feel worse and more inclined to stare at my shoes. I've had those similar 3 words remarked tirelessly from many people over the years, and still dart my eyes around my closest family, friends and my partner. Thankfully, they've never minded my lack of eye contact.

I suppose during adolescence, I attempted self-conditioning and masking, but to no avail, having that persistent frustration of being unable to connect with people on a social level, as I hardly helped myself to becoming an open and easy target for bullying. If anything, my attempts of 'fitting in' made me more of an outcast!

Though Depression and Anxiety were my parting gifts, those experiences did help me gauge and read people better, which proved beneficial as I entered adulthood.

It took me the best part of 15 years to slowly open up to people about my Autism, but also around my closest friends who like me for me, working out and reading people, constantly self-improving my decorum with little to no masking. Simply finding more different and discreet ways of stimming, and coping, ensuring if I do find myself in an overwhelming situation to find the right place and time after to decompress.

Retaining who I am and still expressing my traits, but in a way that doesn't draw too much attention to myself from the uninformed (despite not caring much for stranger's opinions of me) as my closest friends, family and partner accept me for me. So finding a balance, which at times is a very stressful juggling act, but letting myself decompress in a comfortable way in the comfort of my own home.


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Last edited by And So It Goes on 01 May 2021, 3:47 am, edited 3 times in total.