Anyone able to overcome 'all or nothing' thinking?

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The-Raven
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11 Jun 2011, 4:23 am

In aspergers people often have 'all or nothing' thinking or 'black and white' thinking, it is also common in NTs who are stressed, anxious or suffering depression. It is known as a cognitive distortion.

In articles on it and sections in books, it just says to 'stop doing it', and say to recognise things are grey and more complicated and to correct yourself. I find this impossible, just too hard.

Has anyone been able to overcome thinking in this way? How did you do it?

some articles on it
http://www.healthymind.com/s-distortions.html
http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/dl ... epression/
http://www.studentdepression.org/all_or ... inking.php



meeemoi
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11 Jun 2011, 4:30 am

what do you mean, in a social context?

i know in my actions, work and my focus I am like that.
Either I do something almost 100% of the time
or i just give up and and dont want to think about it cause im doing someth



The-Raven
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11 Jun 2011, 4:46 am

I mean in all contexts.

For example I watched a porn video and saw how I could never compare sexually or visually to a porn actress and so decided i was never going to have sex again. I could not cope with the idea of having sex and being crap at it and ugly looking. This serves me poorly as that means I loose out on sexual enjoyment, I would do better to be able to have sex even though Im not very good at it and have bodily imperfections, however despite knowing that I am unable to.

It limits me in all areas of my life.



League_Girl
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11 Jun 2011, 4:47 am

Thinking positive.

I admit I got really black and white when I lost my baby because I was going "I will never have a baby" "What if I can't have kids?" and my mother was like "STOP!! !" and then told me lot of women have miscarriages and they go on having kids and told me how all my aunts but one lost a baby. I was aware that lot of women have kids after a miscarriage but I couldn't stop the negative thinking. The feelings were too strong so logic was useless. I would just say I was acting B&W than being B&W because I was aware of the positives and knew I could still have a baby.

As a kid, I was in therapy for my black and white thinking because I had negative thoughts and viewed myself as abnormal and a failure. If I messed up, I failed. I don't even remember this but mom told me about it because she was telling me to think positive thoughts and to remember what my therapists taught me as a kid. I still get that way but I snap out of it. Everyone is stupid because we all do stupid things. That's what I tell myself when I am stupid. I say everyone is stupid, everyone does stupid things. Bam bye bye B&W thinking. Being stupid doesn't mean you are stupid forever. It just means you were stupid for what you did. In fact I think everyone else around me is black and white just by how they talk or maybe they are doing B&W talking.



The-Raven
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11 Jun 2011, 5:02 am

thanks Leaguegirl, I think miscarriage is a particularly difficult experience which leaves people feeling terrible, i think its very impressive that you were able to over come its negative effects so well.



League_Girl
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11 Jun 2011, 5:11 am

Well actually something else happened so it distracted me from my miscarriage and the feelings about it I literally forgot all about my pain and feelings and grief. Then by the time the other issue blew over, I was over the miscarriage because I didn't want to go back to feeling miserable again about it.



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11 Jun 2011, 6:24 am

I had another aspie tell me that I was the most extreme black and white thinker he has ever met-When I found out about me aspergers and I told the boss at work he asked "well whats next-is there a medicine for it" and I told him-"no there is no medication for me-and in my mind there are only two options- 1-accept me as I am or 2-Get rid of the defective employee-I have no gray area of thinking.


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The-Raven
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11 Jun 2011, 6:27 am

Radiofixr wrote:
I had another aspie tell me that I was the most extreme black and white thinker he has ever met-When I found out about me aspergers and I told the boss at work he asked "well whats next-is there a medicine for it" and I told him-"no there is no medication for me-and in my mind there are only two options- 1-accept me as I am or 2-Get rid of the defective employee-I have no gray area of thinking.

yes thats why the advice in the self help articles and books dont work for me, I dont have a grey thinking, I dont beleive what they say.



Wallourdes
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11 Jun 2011, 6:47 am

I've had this until a few years ago.

The B&W thinking is about extremes and absolute choice.

So things like being open to and/and instead of thinking or/or. In short, both answers can be right instead of only one answer can be right or atleast partially.
Ofcourse there are situations where there are absolutes, like in being pregnant - you're either are or you're not.


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League_Girl
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11 Jun 2011, 1:13 pm

You learn the fire escape routes at school or work? Find the gray where you won't follow these. Well what if where you are in the building kept you from taking those fire escape routes because there was fire in the way? You are going to try and find another way out. If you do this during a fire, you are not that black and white. A black and white thinker would stay in the fire and refuse to find another way of escaping because it be the wrong way to do it.


You need to accept people for who they are, but what of that person was just a jerk? Do you still have to accept them? A black and white thinker would say yes because you need to accept everyone for who they are. I wouldn't hang out with that person at all and not have anything to do with them.


Drinking and driving. Definitely wrong. No gray in that. It's wrong period. But what if the person was at the bar drinking and then there was an emergency, they had to go to the hospital, would it still be right of them to go in their car and drive there risking their own life and others? What if no one would give them a ride and they were worried the cab wouldn't get there in time? Could this be the gray area there for when it's acceptable? Honestly if I were in this situation, I wouldn't do it at all. I drank, can't drive until the hour has gone by. I wouldn't let anyone else drive me either if they have been drinking. I wouldn't even let my cousin drive my car when she had a beer until an hour had gone by after she had last drank. She assured me she was okay but nope the law states you are not to drink and drive and it takes an hour for the effect to wear off.

What about leaving your kids in the car? I think it's okay if you have to run back in the house to get something while you have your kids out in the car. If it's real hot out, leave the car running or have the windows down or door open. What if you have to drop something in the mail box and it's just right outside your car where you parked, I would leave them as I run for it. But some people may not do this and just take their kids out of their car even if they have to walk ten feet to the mail box or twenty feet or even if they have to run back inside their home to get something. Some people are black and white about this too but how black and white can you get? What if you were putting groceries away, would you put your kid in the car after you put all your groceries away and shopping cart? After all the law states, "do not leave your kids alone in the car" well you are leaving them in the car when you are putting the groceries away or washing your car at the coin operating car wash place, or just standing right outside your car talking to someone or waiting on someone? Same as when I get out of my car and close the door and then open the passenger car door, my son was just left alone in the car for a few seconds. I just broke the law for a few seconds. Should I be arrested for that? Think of all the gray areas about leaving your kids alone in the car. If you leave them alone in the car for a few seconds after you get out and then you open the car door to get them out, you are not that black and white if you think that is okay.
Actually parents have gotten arrested for being thirty feet away from their car with their kid in it even though they could still see their car and I know people have called the police on someone for putting away a shopping cart because their kid was left alone in the car. You can leave your kid for three seconds and someone else sees it and thinks someone left their kid in there but they don't know it was just three seconds ago. Now I don't judge anyone when I see a shopping cart in the middle of a parking lot where it doesn't belong. I no longer think "lazy people" because I now think that cart could have been left by a mother who didn't want to take chances of CPS being called on her and the cops for putting away a shopping cart. Plus what if it's very hot out, maybe a mother didn't feel comfortable leaving her car running when she puts away her cart or didn't feel comfortable putting it away leaving her kid in the hot car for a few minutes or with the windows down.


I also think critical thinking helps you find the gray because of all the what ifs? I used to do what ifs a lot as a kid because I was always questioning the rules or what people say.

But yet I had an English teacher who was black and white about school work being turned in before the due date or on that day. She literally had no exceptions. If you are done with your school work, turn it in. When the due date comes and school gets out, if your work isn't turned in, it's late and she won't accept it and you get an F for it. It doesn't matter if you were sick or dying in the hospital or if a family member died so you took school off for it and went out of town. I bet she had that rule because she got so sick and tired of excuses for why they didn't turn their work in on time. So she made it black and white. But yet I still wondered of she have exceptions and was only saying those things so students turn in their darn school work and not have an excuse. She was an NT. There was no what ifs. I would make things black and white too if I got so sick and tired of excuses and late school work being turned in. But yet if you got done early with your school work, turn it in ASAP. You don't need to wait until the due date.



bergie
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11 Jun 2011, 7:26 pm

Wallourdes wrote:
In short, both answers can be right instead of only one answer can be right or atleast partially.


Things like that drive me nuts. If it's only partially right and the other answer is right, then the other answer is the only correct answer. But that is probably just my black and white thinking firing off.



Dantac
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12 Jun 2011, 9:39 pm

listen the the lyrics :P

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnHyB9KzQvs[/youtube]



hurtloam
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13 Jun 2011, 5:45 am

I think I have overcome this, or at least I can see in more color than I used to.

What Leaguegirl said about you have to accept people for who they are is true of me. When I was younger, actually, up until quiet recently I thought that I had to put up with people I dislike because you have to accept people for who they are. I have begun to realise that there are shades of other colors to this and if the person is horrible to me or stresses me out I have to step back and make sure I am looking after my own well-being. It's impossible to like everyone.

Something happened though that knocked me off my feet. I was very arrogant when I was younger. I am very intelligent and I am often right about things. I can work things out that other people struggle with. I learn about things before making a decsion or I have to be certain about something before I open my mouth and comment on a subject. I was unaware that this all or nothing way of being made me seem arrogant to others. I was unaware that my being unyeilding towards other people's opinions was not an acceptable way to behave. I felt like: "I'm right, why do you have a problem with it? You're an idiot if you don't agree with me."

Anyway, to cut a long story short, someone wrote a song about how narrow-minded they thought i was. This song was heard by alot of people before I heard it and needless to say I was very upset by it. But it gave me the jolt I needed and I started to analyse the way I see things.

I also noticed as I was growing up that not everyone sticks to the rules and that alot of things are based on personal choice. I thought that I was just an especially good Christian (that's partly what that song was about) and that I was just naturally doing things right. But then my mother is autistic, she didn't realise she was and thought that she was different because she was "chosen" for want of a better word. And I spent alot of time with people when I was growing up who were autistic who looked down on NTs for being party animals or shallow and concerned about their appearance or what kind of car they drove. We used to think of them as material people, not good spiritual people like us.

I then began to realise that people are human and we all have our own way too see things and we all make mistakes, and that doesn't necessarily make people bad through-and-through. You can only do the best that you can do.

I have certainly mellowed as I've got older.

I'm not good with relationships though. I have a hard time with the getting to know each other part at the beginning, does he like me, doesn't he like me stages. If I let the black and white thinking rule me I think right, he either likes me or he doesn't, whereas in reality it's not that simple. Maybe he thinks, she's quiet nice, but I don't know her well enough to be sure how I feel. I used to jump in too soon and want to know where everything was going. Come on, do you like me or am I wasting my time? I'm not wasting my time on some loser that doesn't really like me? You've got to have balance. Give things time and realise that other people have points of view and feelings too.



twix
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13 Jun 2011, 9:50 am

I get this. One of the ways I sometimes deal with it is if I catch myself and look for a second opinion from someone I trust.

For example with the porn thing, the other opinion might be that people actually prefer to enjoy real sex with the person that is special to them and that porn is not as good as the real thing, (no matter how supposedly perfect the actress is) therefore your thinking is wrong and you should enjoy sex without worrying about it.

I hope you don't think I'm being critical or nasty telling you that you are wrong, I am just trying to explain how I might deal with it, I'm not always good at explaining without upsetting people :?



The-Raven
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13 Jun 2011, 10:08 am

twix wrote:
I get this. One of the ways I sometimes deal with it is if I catch myself and look for a second opinion from someone I trust.

For example with the porn thing, the other opinion might be that people actually prefer to enjoy real sex with the person that is special to them and that porn is not as good as the real thing, (no matter how supposedly perfect the actress is) therefore your thinking is wrong and you should enjoy sex without worrying about it.

I hope you don't think I'm being critical or nasty telling you that you are wrong, I am just trying to explain how I might deal with it, I'm not always good at explaining without upsetting people :?

yeah that was an example, I dont really want to discuss that in depth here, esp with my ex reading it.



twix
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13 Jun 2011, 10:51 am

Fair enough. Mainly its about trying to find a different opinion that the one that is "stuck" but I don't find it easy myself.