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FMX
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01 Nov 2014, 8:32 am

There's a good reason I'm putting this here, in "In-Depth Adult Life Discussion", and not L&D and I ask that you reply accordingly, if you reply at all. I'm looking for practical, helpful advice here.

I've never had a romantic relationship and it's extremely unlikely that I ever will - at least not one that makes me happier than being alone. It's not theoretically impossible, but for all practical intents and purposes I can assume it's not going to happen. I didn't come to this conclusion lightly; I have good reasons for thinking so - but that's not what this topic is about.

The problem is that I do want a relationship and it's making me feel terrible. I keep torturing myself with this and I need to figure out how to stop doing that. I think the only way I'll be at peace is if I really, truly accept that I will die alone, but so far, I can't. I'd like nothing better than to forget that such things as "relationships" and "sex" exist in this world, but of course, that isn't really possible. Perhaps the closest I can hope for is accepting that it's just something for other people - I'm not sure. I can say to myself "I know it'll never happen and that's OK", but the problem is I don't truly believe those words. Does anyone here have experience in truly accepting this? If so, how did you do it and how long did it take you?

Please, PLEASE do not reply saying "don't give up yet" (or variants thereof). That's only going to make me feel worse. For the purpose of this thread, please assume that I will never be in a relationship as long as I live. If, for whatever reason, you're unable or unwilling to assume that then that's absolutely fine, but just please do not reply to this thread.


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01 Nov 2014, 10:13 am

I pretty much feel the same way; although unlike you, I've had a three short-lived intimate relationships. I go along pretty well until I develop feelings for someone. Otherwise, I'm fairly content being alone. For me, the great outdoors gives me a great sense of fulfillment and peace. Sadly, I don't have any more wisdom to impart to you. All the best to you!


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01 Nov 2014, 10:54 am

I see why you didn't post to L&D, but?argh?you're making this tough?

I'm terrible at keeping posts short and concise as I've had severe diarrhea of the mouse as of late. But I will restate a point I've often made in L&D because it is relevant to what you're asking for.

Something we all MUST remember, whether we are going for a relationship or not, is that ALL RELATIONSHIPS WILL END. I don't mean to do that dumb all-caps shouting thing, but there's just no way, even all-caps shouting, that I can emphasize this point enough. One way or another, you WILL be separated from the person or people you love. This is a FACT of life we tend to ignore, and NT or not, we too often find that we accept this fact of life too late, i.e. when our loved ones are taken from us.

I'm not going to talk you through getting a relationship, I'm not going to give you a pep talk, because that's clearly not what you want. If it is something that causes you pain and you want to give up (and I don't blame you), then I think a full understanding that all relationships end might be a first step in making peace with your resolve to spend the rest of your life alone.

You've probably already thought of this, too, but I want to say this for other readers/posters as food for thought: If you are going to resolve to be "alone," I think it's best to define what "alone" really means. I'll be honest here: I'm married with 3 kids, and I STILL get lonely. I'm surrounded by family, and they don't always (often?) work to make me feel important or loved. I feel I have needs that are neglected. I feel my interests aren't shared or encouraged. So I think something that CAN be worse than where you are is being surrounded by people but feeling thousands of miles away. Granted, for me this isn't a permanent or lasting state of being, but it is psychologically crippling at times. There are others in relationships that have it a LOT worse than I do, and those often do END prematurely in divorce, etc. So?for me, that's "alone."

What does "alone" mean to you? Are there limits/boundaries to how you define being alone?

I'm asking because being "alone" in varying senses obviously doesn't indicate 100% isolation?you're talking about "alone" in the sense of a specific type of relationship. People need people--and by that I mean you can't get out of human interactions when you buy a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter at the grocery store. I think that you're giving yourself the freedom from the more negative aspects of LTRs, and that can be a real positive, and IF you wanted to (stress IF) just "see people" in a strictly NSA sense, all you're doing is just saying, "hey, I'm bored, want to meet up at ___?" So, you're not ever really going to be alone in any isolated sense. When you say you just want to go out and do something, that's all you mean. I think you can enjoy life a lot MORE with other people, not live in a bubble, and still not have to put up with all the headaches of expectations.

And, again, that's only IF you really want to do that. You can isolate yourself as much as you want within reason if that would help more. But I think approaching EVERY interaction with a NSA expectation might be easier on you psychologically and help you be a little more accepting of your decision.



TerryD
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01 Nov 2014, 10:00 pm

I also have the same problem as the OP. I have been thinking about it and asking myself, "Do you really want a relationship, or do you just feel that you want a relationship?" I am still pondering this question.



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02 Nov 2014, 1:12 am

Not going to L and D is a great first step

57 year old virgin, never in relationship person here so I believe I have the ability to make the assumption you are requesting. That magical lifelong loving relationship is something most believe in but it is a myth. Enough people do experience it to create a believable myth. Another important factor in creating the myth is chemical reactions creating a fuzzy feeling for a few years so when it does start to fall apart they get fooled into thinking because it happened once they can recreate it. Some fall back into acceptable predictability. But for 40 or 50% of people it ends up in divorce, nearly all of then thought that they had found their soul mate, a person they were predestined to be with. Turns out they never had the ability to be in a relationship. This is logical, humans are flawed, everybody is not good at everything. When are people are poor at sport or singing eventually it is accepted and people move on to something else. But with sex or relationships-the idea that some people do not have the ability is not accepted due the belief there is a myth predetermined to be your lifelong soulmate.

Divorce is nasty. Years of lawyers, complications, anger, confusion, sadness, remorse, rumination, bitterness. If you figure it out before you get married a lot of the complications don't happen but the negative emotions still do. If you are single you miss out on this.

It took me a number of years to accept this.


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02 Nov 2014, 8:10 am

TerryD wrote:
I also have the same problem as the OP. I have been thinking about it and asking myself, "Do you really want a relationship, or do you just feel that you want a relationship?" I am still pondering this question.


There may be times when we're better off alone, when we might not be ready for a relationship. But overall, I think questions like these are just a symptom of intellectualizing the problem.

There are pros and cons to everything, but overall a relationship provides things we naturally crave and maybe need. Even if you can't handle the cons of a relationship, being excluded from the experience means being deprived of basic needs, unless you're one of those autistics who don't feel lonely. For most people, social validation, integration and intimacy are a fundamental aspect of what being human means (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/10/social-connection-makes-a-better-brain/280934/), and not having that leads to hardships ranging from simple lack of success to severe mental illness.


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FMX
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02 Nov 2014, 6:15 pm

Thanks for the thoughtful and on-topic responses, AngelRho and ASPartOfMe. I think you're both essentially suggesting that I cultivate a more negative view of relationships. I agree that this would make it easier to accept not having one, so this is helpful. The funny thing is, I did have a very negative view of relationships up to about 1.5-2 years ago and I felt much better then. Not that I was happy to not be in a relationship or anything, but at least it didn't hurt! Now, if only I could go back to that... somehow.

Of course, I considered what "alone" means and here I meant it purely in a romantic context. I do have other contact with people. Making friends is difficult for me as well, but not to the point that it would cause me such emotional pain. I guess I do OK at friendship - as aspies go. ;)

ASPartOfMe, the point you're making about some people just not being good at some things has also occurred to me. Indeed, if a person with a low IQ says "I don't think I'll ever be able to become a successful mathematician" people would accept that. If I say "I don't think I'll ever be able to get into a successful relationship" people's immediate reaction would be to protest, even if they don't know me at all. However, the problem is not other people. The problem is that I, myself, want a relationship. So it's more like the person with the low IQ who loves the idea of mathematical proofs, but he just can't actually understand them, let alone come up with one of his own. (Unlikely, perhaps, but you get the idea...)

AngelRho wrote:
I've had severe diarrhea of the mouse as of late


That's the first time I read that expression. Thanks for making me laugh a little. Apart from the word-play, it made me imagine a mouse literally crapping itself as you tried to write the post. :) Gotta love an aspie mind sometimes.

TerryD wrote:
I also have the same problem as the OP. I have been thinking about it and asking myself, "Do you really want a relationship, or do you just feel that you want a relationship?"


Sorry, but that is not the same problem, so please start a separate thread about it. My problem is not that I'm unsure whether I want a relationship, but that (I believe) I'm unable to get one and I'm struggling to live with that.


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Waterfalls
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02 Nov 2014, 11:14 pm

I can't and don't assume you will or won't ever be in a romantic relationship with another person, or have or not have friendships, but am pretty sure you are right about needing to accept you will die alone..::::we all die alone, every one of us, and attachments we form and have may be stronger or less strong, and with few or many people. By accepting our inherent aloneness as human beings I think you will be happier. And I think we all have to just try to live the best life we can.

Terry's right though, it's also about choices, and how much the negatives about relationships weigh against being in a relationship. I think part of accepting is being open to the choices we are making. Because feeling helpless is pretty ugly.



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03 Nov 2014, 11:20 pm

FMX wrote:
There's a good reason I'm putting this here, in "In-Depth Adult Life Discussion", and not L&D and I ask that you reply accordingly, if you reply at all. I'm looking for practical, helpful advice here.

I've never had a romantic relationship and it's extremely unlikely that I ever will - at least not one that makes me happier than being alone. It's not theoretically impossible, but for all practical intents and purposes I can assume it's not going to happen. I didn't come to this conclusion lightly; I have good reasons for thinking so - but that's not what this topic is about.

The problem is that I do want a relationship and it's making me feel terrible. I keep torturing myself with this and I need to figure out how to stop doing that. I think the only way I'll be at peace is if I really, truly accept that I will die alone, but so far, I can't. I'd like nothing better than to forget that such things as "relationships" and "sex" exist in this world, but of course, that isn't really possible. Perhaps the closest I can hope for is accepting that it's just something for other people - I'm not sure. I can say to myself "I know it'll never happen and that's OK", but the problem is I don't truly believe those words. Does anyone here have experience in truly accepting this? If so, how did you do it and how long did it take you?

Please, PLEASE do not reply saying "don't give up yet" (or variants thereof). That's only going to make me feel worse. For the purpose of this thread, please assume that I will never be in a relationship as long as I live. If, for whatever reason, you're unable or unwilling to assume that then that's absolutely fine, but just please do not reply to this thread.


Cultivate platonic love and you will still have a very rich life.


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04 Nov 2014, 3:59 am

In your first post OP, you ask "How long did it take in your experience?"

For me it took 25 years to come to that point of completely comfortable acceptance. Though throughout those 25 years, I guess it was happening in stages, and sometimes it was moving 2 steps forward then 1 back sort of progress... In all honesty I didn't ever think I would reach this peaceful, comfortable state of affairs; I didn't really know it was possible until I discovered that I had already arrived. It happened over the last year. Part of that was due, I think, to finding WP.

My background differs from yours though, in that I was married with children before the 25 years spent alone. My partner died suddenly in tragic circumstances. I knew even then that I would never really commit to another relationship in a deep and meaningful way. And I never wanted to live through that kind of loss again - which nearly killed me at the time, from grief.

I don't think it takes other people as long as it took me - my resolution was very slow because the sudden loss of a beloved partner brought up all the previous experiences of loss which I had buried away for the previous 40 years. So there was a whole lifetime of ghastly loss (and childhood abuse) for me to come to terms with and resolve, and at first I floundered and didn't know where nor how to start.

So - to return to your question - the only answer I can offer is a guess: "probably half the time it took me or less". Though I hope it proves even shorter than that for you. Good luck with the journey ahead, wherever it may lead you.



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04 Nov 2014, 7:17 am

How does one truly accept being alone?

That is easy
If you truly are alone, nothing gets in the way of that!

The problem is we are not alone
the media bombards us constantly with images and ideals of being the perfect woman or man or family or child or teen or young adult
the internet bombards us constantly with, well... an avalanche of crap
and society bombards us with opinions and expectations and the whole
Holier than thou
star studded romance they have with billionaires and movie stars

It just makes me want to vomit!






Being alone and accepting being alone,
puts you in a very special place


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04 Nov 2014, 11:09 pm

syzygyish wrote:
How does one truly accept being alone?

That is easy
If you truly are alone, nothing gets in the way of that!

The problem is we are not alone
the media bombards us constantly with images and ideals of being the perfect woman or man or family or child or teen or young adult
the internet bombards us constantly with, well... an avalanche of crap
and society bombards us with opinions and expectations and the whole
Holier than thou
star studded romance they have with billionaires and movie stars

It just makes me want to vomit!





Being alone and accepting being alone,
puts you in a very special place


The media is tough to turn off but you can. Unless you have the skills and wherewithal to be a true hermit you are going to get these messages from the people you must interact with.


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05 Nov 2014, 12:56 pm

Waterfalls wrote:
I ... am pretty sure you are right about needing to accept you will die alone..::::we all die alone, every one of us, and attachments we form and have may be stronger or less strong, and with few or many people. By accepting our inherent aloneness as human beings I think you will be happier. And I think we all have to just try to live the best life we can.


Of course, when I said "die alone" I really meant "live and die alone" and it's the "live" part I'm more concerned about! Nevertheless, you make a good point about "inherent aloneness". I'll try!

B19 wrote:
In your first post OP, you ask "How long did it take in your experience?"

For me it took 25 years to come to that point of completely comfortable acceptance. Though throughout those 25 years, I guess it was happening in stages, and sometimes it was moving 2 steps forward then 1 back sort of progress... In all honesty I didn't ever think I would reach this peaceful, comfortable state of affairs; I didn't really know it was possible until I discovered that I had already arrived. It happened over the last year. Part of that was due, I think, to finding WP.

My background differs from yours though, in that I was married with children before the 25 years spent alone. My partner died suddenly in tragic circumstances. I knew even then that I would never really commit to another relationship in a deep and meaningful way. And I never wanted to live through that kind of loss again - which nearly killed me at the time, from grief.

I don't think it takes other people as long as it took me - my resolution was very slow because the sudden loss of a beloved partner brought up all the previous experiences of loss which I had buried away for the previous 40 years. So there was a whole lifetime of ghastly loss (and childhood abuse) for me to come to terms with and resolve, and at first I floundered and didn't know where nor how to start.

So - to return to your question - the only answer I can offer is a guess: "probably half the time it took me or less". Though I hope it proves even shorter than that for you. Good luck with the journey ahead, wherever it may lead you.


Wow... 25 years is an awefully long time! I doubt that I could last that long, or even half that long, with the way I feel now. Thank you for a truthful answer, anyway. As you say, your situation is different to mine, but I'd still be interested to hear about the steps you took (the "2 steps forward, 1 step back" thing).


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05 Nov 2014, 4:19 pm

In all the various stages I went through, I read books - thousands and thousands of books. I began by trying to learn from people who had experienced profound suffering and moved through it to unlock new meaning and purpose. Books like "Man's Search For Meaning". These took me deep inside myself - a visit to parts of my soul that were new territory to me at the time. Some of the holocaust survivors had very important things to say about "life after that" - how they found new meaning and purpose that sustained them in the decades after 1945. I learned a lot from them and others.

Most survivors agreed on two things: 1) that they became different people. Experience had changed everything - how they felt, how they perceived the world, what they valued, how they perceived themselves, how they approached life. You survived not as a healed version of the person you were before the suffering, but as a different person transformed by the suffering, finding not only that you could you go on, but 2) you could go on as a vastly wiser self who had resources it never had before. I figured that if they could do it, then surely I could too.

And that was true, though there were times that I just walked in circles like someone lost in the desert, not going back, not going forward, not going anywhere. Then I'd make some sort of breakthrough and the journey began again.

I look back of it now and think of it as a journey to wholeness. I look further back and see myself before "the great derailment of my life" as someone whose self existed in parts, who functioned in parts. Joining up those parts fully into wholeness took a loooooooong time.
The very last part - at the end of that journey - was the discovery of my ASD reality.



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06 Nov 2014, 5:05 am

B19 wrote:
In all the various stages I went through, I read books - thousands and thousands of books. I began by trying to learn from people who had experienced profound suffering and moved through it to unlock new meaning and purpose. Books like "Man's Search For Meaning". These took me deep inside myself - a visit to parts of my soul that were new territory to me at the time. Some of the holocaust survivors had very important things to say about "life after that" - how they found new meaning and purpose that sustained them in the decades after 1945. I learned a lot from them and others.

I look back of it now and think of it as a journey to wholeness. I look further back and see myself before "the great derailment of my life" as someone whose self existed in parts, who functioned in parts. Joining up those parts fully into wholeness took a loooooooong time.
The very last part - at the end of that journey - was the discovery of my ASD reality.


You wrote something that was important my journey. The realization that compared to many if not most people in this world my life is not that hard. I am not a Jew during the Holocaust, I am not living in a war zone etc. Social Skills and employment problems pale in comparison so who the f**k am I to feel sorry for myself?. At times this realization produced frustration as in "I'm so lucky, I have been given so much why can't I take advantage?" Now I know why.


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06 Nov 2014, 12:30 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The realization that compared to many if not most people in this world my life is not that hard. I am not a Jew during the Holocaust, I am not living in a war zone etc.


This has often occurred to me, too, but it only tends to makes me feel better when I already feel OK to good. When I feel bad to terrible the thought that I shouldn't feel so bad makes me feel worse, not better.

More generally, the whole line of reasoning that "one should be happy because there are people who have it worse" doesn't work well for me, because it's a matter of who you compare yourself to. Yes, many people have it worse, but many people also have it better.


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