Religion/Spirituality - The Good & Healing Conversation

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ChorisOnoma
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26 Sep 2016, 4:33 pm

Spirituality and Religion is often the source of conflict, both between people and within people. It is also often a source of hope, joy, healing and peace.

How do those of us who practice some sort of spirituality apply our personal beliefs, spiritual path, teachings etc to our reality as People on the Spectrum?

What do we find most meaningful, helpful, satisfying spiritually in our pratice/path/belief?

What are our different paths? How did we arrive at them?

Let's talk.
----
I'll start. - I am Jewish. To me that is both a spiritual path through which I keep looking for G-d, and a cultural space in which I explore who I am, every day.
I am not especially "religious" in the sense that I participate in the Jewish community, keep all the rules etc. To me my spiritual path is more of a constant question - of life, of right, of being human, how to be me, how to be part of humanity in good way.


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AspE
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26 Sep 2016, 5:51 pm

ChorisOnoma wrote:
Spirituality and Religion is often the source of conflict, both between people and within people. It is also often a source of hope, joy, healing and peace.

How do those of us who practice some sort of spirituality apply our personal beliefs, spiritual path, teachings etc to our reality as People on the Spectrum?

What do we find most meaningful, helpful, satisfying spiritually in our pratice/path/belief?

What are our different paths? How did we arrive at them?

Let's talk.
----
I'll start. - I am Jewish. To me that is both a spiritual path through which I keep looking for G-d, and a cultural space in which I explore who I am, every day.
I am not especially "religious" in the sense that I participate in the Jewish community, keep all the rules etc. To me my spiritual path is more of a constant question - of life, of right, of being human, how to be me, how to be part of humanity in good way.

I was spiritual until I discovered that it's all BS. Now I don't worry about it. Thought is our enemy, it creates all our problems. Stop thinking and end your problems, the Tao Te Ching was right about that.



ChorisOnoma
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27 Sep 2016, 1:49 am

AspE wrote:
I was spiritual until I discovered that it's all BS. Now I don't worry about it. Thought is our enemy, it creates all our problems. Stop thinking and end your problems, the Tao Te Ching was right about that.
I find it very hard not to think. There is a constant chatter of thoughts going on inside my head. Questions, answers, theories, ideas, all of jumbled into one churning maestrom of THOUGHT. And since most of them invariably lead to anxiety or obssession, I find it very painful. Directing my thought process towards spiritual stuff, like just having a conversation with what I think of as G-d actually helps me. It brings order in my head. It quiets the chatter and helps me think.


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kraftiekortie
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27 Sep 2016, 8:55 am

I'm a non-religious person who sees the utility of religion for some people.

If somebody believes there is a God who heals, who am I to doubt that person?

Maybe God truly has "picked" that person to get to know Him better.

He certainly hasn't picked me LOL



izzeme
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27 Sep 2016, 9:48 am

As long as believing that god (or any other diety/spirit) will heal you doesn't stop you from seeking actual professional help; go and believe whatever you want, at worst it does nothing.

However, once you stop using medicine becouse you have your god (like in the anti-vax movement), that is a dangerous position



AspE
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27 Sep 2016, 11:26 am

ChorisOnoma wrote:
AspE wrote:
I was spiritual until I discovered that it's all BS. Now I don't worry about it. Thought is our enemy, it creates all our problems. Stop thinking and end your problems, the Tao Te Ching was right about that.
I find it very hard not to think. There is a constant chatter of thoughts going on inside my head. Questions, answers, theories, ideas, all of jumbled into one churning maestrom of THOUGHT. And since most of them invariably lead to anxiety or obssession, I find it very painful. Directing my thought process towards spiritual stuff, like just having a conversation with what I think of as G-d actually helps me. It brings order in my head. It quiets the chatter and helps me think.

I believe we have more than one center of thought. There is an aspect of our minds that works by free association. It seldom shuts up, but that's OK. The problems come from identification with it. There is another part that can disassociate itself from this chatter and ignore it. This other part can't be observed and that is our true mind. In other words, you can never know or observe your real self, only be it.



Henbane
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28 Sep 2016, 5:33 pm

I'm not religious but I obsess about religion. I think constantly about why we exist, why anything exists, how should we live, does it matter how we live, what is true, what is evil, what is good, why can people believe something when I find it impossible, why can people be atheist when I find it impossible. You get the idea. Many religions have truth in them, but they are all man made, and are all imperfect, and I find that difficult to cope with.



Soulsparrer
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03 Oct 2016, 12:26 am

AspE wrote:
ChorisOnoma wrote:
Spirituality and Religion is often the source of conflict, both between people and within people. It is also often a source of hope, joy, healing and peace.

How do those of us who practice some sort of spirituality apply our personal beliefs, spiritual path, teachings etc to our reality as People on the Spectrum?

What do we find most meaningful, helpful, satisfying spiritually in our pratice/path/belief?

What are our different paths? How did we arrive at them?

Let's talk.
----
I'll start. - I am Jewish. To me that is both a spiritual path through which I keep looking for G-d, and a cultural space in which I explore who I am, every day.
I am not especially "religious" in the sense that I participate in the Jewish community, keep all the rules etc. To me my spiritual path is more of a constant question - of life, of right, of being human, how to be me, how to be part of humanity in good way.

I was spiritual until I discovered that it's all BS. Now I don't worry about it. Thought is our enemy, it creates all our problems. Stop thinking and end your problems, the Tao Te Ching was right about that.

Not as much of a conflict as one might think; some identify the "mindful" state as being one with God, and language or symbolic thought the "forbidden knowledge" offered by the serpent.

It seems this universal message transcends both religious and secular philosophies.



ChorisOnoma
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03 Oct 2016, 4:10 am

Soulsparrer wrote:
AspE wrote:
ChorisOnoma wrote:
Spirituality and Religion is often the source of conflict, both between people and within people. It is also often a source of hope, joy, healing and peace.

How do those of us who practice some sort of spirituality apply our personal beliefs, spiritual path, teachings etc to our reality as People on the Spectrum?

What do we find most meaningful, helpful, satisfying spiritually in our pratice/path/belief?

What are our different paths? How did we arrive at them?

Let's talk.
----
I'll start. - I am Jewish. To me that is both a spiritual path through which I keep looking for G-d, and a cultural space in which I explore who I am, every day.
I am not especially "religious" in the sense that I participate in the Jewish community, keep all the rules etc. To me my spiritual path is more of a constant question - of life, of right, of being human, how to be me, how to be part of humanity in good way.

I was spiritual until I discovered that it's all BS. Now I don't worry about it. Thought is our enemy, it creates all our problems. Stop thinking and end your problems, the Tao Te Ching was right about that.

Not as much of a conflict as one might think; some identify the "mindful" state as being one with God, and language or symbolic thought the "forbidden knowledge" offered by the serpent.

It seems this universal message transcends both religious and secular philosophies.
I would have to agree. As we cannot 'identify G-d' in any concrete or practical way except in the most limited and personal way, the assumption that G-d necessarily must be what we personally make of Him/Her/It/They is the Truth.
Which is actually supported by f.i Torah. In the story of Moshe (Moses) and the burning bush, G-d introduces Himself by saying in English rendered "I am Who I am". In Hebrew the actual meaning of the statement is "I will be Who/What I will be", suggesting that G-d is not only 'mutable', but open to variability, leaving it up to us to determine for ourselves Who or What G-d Is.


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03 Oct 2016, 8:16 am

Spirituality is a complex topic for me. I grew up in a fundamentalist church which was very frustrating. I would sit there listening to the preacher talk about male headship and that wives should be in subjection to their husbands in all things, and it would make my blood boil. I think it sort of messed up my thinking in some ways. I'm frequently trying to figure out what's normal. And yet, I can't help but worry that maybe I'm wrong and the teachings were truth.

I'm still finding my path towards spirituality. I do have some vague impression of the interconnectedness of all things, but I'm still working it out.



Last edited by Twilightprincess on 03 Oct 2016, 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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03 Oct 2016, 8:26 am

I'm not a religious person, whatsoever.

But I believe religion, for many people, is a healing balm that should never be taken away.



ChorisOnoma
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03 Oct 2016, 9:04 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Spirituality is a complex topic for me. I grew up in a fundamentalist church which was very frustrating. I would sit there listening to the preacher talk about male headship and that wives should be in subjection to their husbands in all things, and it would make my blood boil. I think it sort of messed up my thinking in some ways. I'm frequently trying to figure out what's normal. And yet, I can't help but worry that maybe I'm wrong and the teachings were truth.

I know where you are coming from, Twilightprincess, having been there myself. I belonged to a fundamentalist church myself between 16 and 27. I left because I couldnt stand what I saw as cognitive dissonance and blatant hypocrisy. It took time to work it out. I went from fundamentalist evangelical to pagan, and then in my mid 30s I landed in Judaism. For me there was a lot more room there. But only because I managed to work it out. That G-d wasnt out to get me, that hell is a fiction used to control people with. I took a lot of time, a lot of thinking, to clear out all that rubble, and find my own understanding of G-d and spirituality.
Twilightprincess wrote:
I'm still finding my path towards spirituality. I do have some vague impression of the interconnectedness of all things, but I'm still working it out.
You will be fine. Wherever you end up, it will be fine.


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techstepgenr8tion
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03 Oct 2016, 9:56 pm

This looks like it's going a bit awkward but regardless:

I was raised Roman Catholic, I think enough of what I saw with people increasingly told me that we were animals first, last, and foremost and that all of this was a cultural veneer. Going increasingly atheistic and pessimistic at the same time didn't work out particularly well. When that was starting to hit rock bottom I got an unlikely jump, the right kinds of conversation in the right places, that got me curious enough to properly examine NDE's, from there medium and their writings because it seemed like the same thing without the hospital trip, I got thrown back to the bible when I started having deeper concerns about the quality of that content, read the bible several times and came away with a take on it that I never thought I would have.

Lets just say two years of reading binge and trying to find my place lead me to join BOTA (Builders of the Adytum) maybe three years ago, AMORC slightly later, and I've been a minerval in OTO for less than a year. Seems like I'm trying to figure out which groups I want to stay with longer term, how long term, and how much of my Hermeticism I want to explore on my own vs. within the framework of a formal order. There's a lot they all have to offer and I want to figure out where I really stand on this stuff before I try niching myself.

What it's worth to me is complex. On one hand I've been increasingly skeptical when people make bold claims about psychism, mediumship, or knowing any sort of firm truth about the universe. I do see some very powerful positive psychology in Hermetic practice and exploration - ritual and symbolism are no joke, organizing thoughts and emotions into firm structures seems like a powerful way to explore them more deeply, and I'm starting to also have a much greater appreciation for the tradition of things like Catholic eucharist than I did when I was actively participating in it. Similarly I've had enough odd experiences to suggest (at least for the value of my own judgment) that there's still some interesting stuff going on right at the boarder between materialism and panpsychism that's worth expanding my focus into.

Not sure how long I'll be where I'm at, ten years ago I couldn't have imagined myself where I am now so I wouldn't rule out the possibility that life could surprise me just as profoundly between now and my mid 40's.


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ChorisOnoma
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04 Oct 2016, 11:50 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
This looks like it's going a bit awkward but regardless:
[...] Seems like I'm trying to figure out which groups I want to stay with longer term, how long term, and how much of my Hermeticism I want to explore on my own vs. within the framework of a formal order. There's a lot they all have to offer and I want to figure out where I really stand on this stuff before I try niching myself.

What it's worth to me is complex. On one hand I've been increasingly skeptical when people make bold claims about psychism, mediumship, or knowing any sort of firm truth about the universe. I do see some very powerful positive psychology in Hermetic practice and exploration - ritual and symbolism are no joke, organizing thoughts and emotions into firm structures seems like a powerful way to explore them more deeply, and I'm starting to also have a much greater appreciation for the tradition of things like Catholic eucharist than I did when I was actively participating in it. Similarly I've had enough odd experiences to suggest (at least for the value of my own judgment) that there's still some interesting stuff going on right at the boarder between materialism and panpsychism that's worth expanding my focus into.

Not sure how long I'll be where I'm at, ten years ago I couldn't have imagined myself where I am now so I wouldn't rule out the possibility that life could surprise me just as profoundly between now and my mid 40's.
Hermeticism on Wikipedia I knew absolutely nothing about Hermeticism before I read your post, and looked it up in Wikipedia - I learned something new today, thank you :)

I am a strong believer in looking for the similarities between Paths, while at the same time a strong believer in celebrating what is unique to my particular Path.
So the idea of a basic theology that runs throungh all Paths sounds intriguing :)


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techstepgenr8tion
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04 Oct 2016, 6:14 pm

ChorisOnoma wrote:
So the idea of a basic theology that runs throungh all Paths sounds intriguing :)

I don't know if I'd call it the ultimate synchretic - it's more like the yogas done the western esoteric way; ceremonial magic, alchemy, kabbalah, astrology, and tarot. All of that stuff has profound psychological value. I do get the sense that there's a little more to it with respect to changes in the human mind and body, those changes can be highly gratifying but I get the sense that their ultimate value is highly personal in nature and it's not a take James Randi's money kind of thing.


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08 Oct 2016, 7:59 am

Henbane wrote:
I'm not religious but I obsess about religion. I think constantly about why we exist, why anything exists, how should we live, does it matter how we live, what is true, what is evil, what is good, why can people believe something when I find it impossible, why can people be atheist when I find it impossible. You get the idea. Many religions have truth in them, but they are all man made, and are all imperfect, and I find that difficult to cope with.
To me asking all those questions is the very definition of "being religious". Whether I actually find any answers to my questions is only relevant if those answers lead me to ask more questions. I wouldn't call myself "Religious" in the sense that I adhere to a specific religion, though what I find most congruent with myself at this time in my life would fall within the wider scope of Judaism. I hold certain beliefs, that is true, but those beliefs are subject to revision at any time based on what I find through my constant questioning.
F.i, it is my firm belief that the very nature of spirituality excludes any definite assertion about the existence or nature of "G-d" - to me those are issues of which we cannot know anything with any certainty. This does not exclude the fact that I actually believe "G-d" exists. Yes, all religions are man-made. They, in my opinion, are the results of people, like you and me, grappling with exactly the questions you describe thinking about in your comment, "why we exist, why anything exists, how should we live, does it matter how we live, what is true, what is evil, what is good"and coming up with different answers. I don't think there are any absolute answers, I don't think we are supposed to either get or have any absolute answers. To me absolute answers negates the idea that we are supposed to have our own personal understanding of "G-d".
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
ChorisOnoma wrote:
So the idea of a basic theology that runs throungh all Paths sounds intriguing :)

I don't know if I'd call it the ultimate synchretic - it's more like the yogas done the western esoteric way; ceremonial magic, alchemy, kabbalah, astrology, and tarot. All of that stuff has profound psychological value. I do get the sense that there's a little more to it with respect to changes in the human mind and body, those changes can be highly gratifying but I get the sense that their ultimate value is highly personal in nature and it's not a take James Randi's money kind of thing.
When I wrote "a basic theology that runs throungh all Paths" I was refering to this line in the Wikipedia article: "The tradition claims descent from a prisca theologia, a doctrine that affirms the existence of a single, true theology that is present in all religions and that was given by God to man in antiquity." I.e rather the idea that there is a core of ideas in each Path that is actually identical in all of them. F.i "Theism" -> the concept of an existing Deity/Deities, or the concept of "G-d is Good" etc, which to me is not syncretism, but rather a basic commonality.
Whether this commonality was given by G-d in antiquity, or as I said above "the result of peoples' grappling with [existential questions] is something I choose to leave to others to discuss, because to me that road leads at best to nowhere and at worst to conflict and possible animosity.