McKinnon Deportation
Er, no the problem is that the world court has no jurisdiction and would probably decline involvement. The world court is for resolving matters of international law disputed by states and has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue.
It is true we are fighting several undeclared wars, with European allies, we are not picking on the weak, for they are winning, and we seek a political solution.
The US is picking on Gary, he is an unemployed, impoverished disabled person of no particular resource. It does not get much weaker than that.
What a ridiculous strawman. No one is saying that trials are a problem in and of themselves. The argument that Gary should be tried in the UK is not sensibly responded to with suggestions that trials are a necessary unpleasantry. Trials can easily take place without extraditing someone from the jurisdiction they are currently in, are a citizen of and where their alleged acts were allegedly committed.
All utterly irrelevent. Should we assume you do not actually have anything remotely relevant to say about this issue?
We convict people in wheel chairs, and send them directly to prison hospitals.
Our mental hospital were also abused by people who took a winter vacation there every year.
We are our history, the rejects of Europe, we are wild, we own two guns per person, and we have the largest economy on earth.
Not for long. Citizens of the US ought to consider if their government believes others should kow tow to the US because of might that it will at its convenience kow tow to the might of emerging powers once they have established themselves as the US's economic and military betters. Anyone currently blogging in an uncomplementary manner in respect of China could consider that the US can export people for trial as easily as it can import them, and Gary's case sets precedents that might be used against any US citizen in the future. I hope no one here ends up reaping what they are sowing when they support the extradition of Gary McKinnon.
There is no strong evidence that McKinnon was doing anything other than trying to confirm the existence of information of alien technology so that the public (including the US public who the US government and military is supposed to serve) could make up its own mind if these things should be kept secret, and there is no strong evidence that he used anything other than trying out the default username and passwords that someone had neglected to change.
Based on McKinnon's description, it seems like there is no such thing as high level spying in this case; high level spying would require circumventing high level security. Leaving the username and password as a default setting does not constitute high level security. Is it not odd that all those citizens of the US who claim to be so concerned for the security of the system Gary gained access to, are completely unconcerned that someone with legitimate access might leave it wholly unsecured.
If true, and Gary is tried in the UK, expect the fact to be confirmed and for someone to have to take action to prevent a repetition.
If true and Gary is tried in the US, expect a self-interested coverup, no lesson learned and a lack of security to continue.
What utter nonsense you present. I suggest the UK would simply not extradite if McKinnon were working for UK intelligence.
I am suggesting that, so are a lot of other people.
England is trying every trick in the book, have not refused, but don't follow through.
Where Gary went there are no default passwords, seven digit alpha/numeric, and changed regularly.
Do you think we do not have security that pings the whole system looking for holes? The Russians taught us a lot, the Chinese try, Gary was given the Golden Key.
"Fe fie fo fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman,
be he live, or be he dead,
I'll grind his bones to make my bread."
England is trying every trick in the book, have not refused, but don't follow through.
Where Gary went there are no default passwords, seven digit alpha/numeric, and changed regularly.
Do you think we do not have security that pings the whole system looking for holes? The Russians taught us a lot, the Chinese try, Gary was given the Golden Key.
"Fe fie fo fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman,
be he live, or be he dead,
I'll grind his bones to make my bread."
Actually I do not find anything you have had to say about this issue remotely plausible, not from the nonsense about alien overlords about to make big changes to planet earth's economy, through to your insinuations of "inside knowledge". I think you are just having a bit of a giggle with us all actually. I just cannot work out if you expect us to take you seriously, or if you expect that we know you are joking around.
Last edited by pandd on 03 Feb 2010, 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well if this has shifted from a discussion about extradition (fair or otherwise) to a string of BS conspiracy theories, how about that old favourite.. Mckinnon was on EAXCTLY the right track, UFOs are real, the US is trying to cover it up yadda yadda same old toss.
It still grinds down to the same things. People here have no sense of scale when it comes to crime and punishment, and America is little more than a facistic bully throwing its weight around to get its own way, riding roughshod over everyone or everything, and it doesnt matter whether Mckinnon has major h4x or blind luck, and it doesnt matter what he was looking for or what he found..
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
Well actually those claims (that McKinnon is correct to assume that the US authorities are currently in a cooperative relationship with aliens) were made in a different thread.
Actually it should matter. The legal mechanism being relied on for extradition was intended to allow dangerous terrorists who intend harm to others to be more easily extradited. That McKinnon seems harmless, and claims to have not intended anything other than the dissemination of information that he believed the wider public should be able to access, to the wider public, ought to be relevant when an attempt is made to extradite him under a legal mechanism intended for dangerous terrorists.
It's bad enough the treaty exists in the first place, worse still that it is being used retrospectively, but the notion that it appears that it is being used to victimize someone whose intent was to find evidence of alien technology with the hope of sharing any such information with the wider public (not enemies of the US or the UK, but the public of the US and the UK) is even more abhorrent. If he was looking for some kind of information that he intended to use to the detriment of the people of the US then there might be some justification for the use of a legal mechanism that the public was told (when the treaty was signed) was intended only for dangerous terrorists. If he was looking for evidence of alien technology with an intent only to share that information with the wider public, that in no way consitutes genuine terrorism, and the use of this treaty is even more abhorrent and unjustifiable. This is true whether or not such information (as Gary claims to have been looking for) actually exists (arguably it's more true in the very likely event that the information does not exist).
A legal mechanism is only really real when it is enacted. Most legal mechanisms are straight forward (and sufficiently consistent with other elements of the legal system it exists within) that the first use is not a particular barrier, but this is an extraordinary legal mechanism and trying it out on Gary with success will make it easier to implement if there is some real need to use it in the future (precedent is of great importance to both the UK and US legal systems).
Whether or not it has occured to those in government who are pushing for this extradition, the fact remains that what is being attempted is currently not legitimate in the US or the UK justice system, but if they succeed with Gary, then that will create a precedent that instantly legitimizes each currently illegitimate element of what is occuring.
It was Gary who claimed that American technology had alien roots. That is his cover story for why it was legit to break in to the system, and expose them.
Defense Advanced Weapons is where he broke in, you can't get there from NASA. There are seperate systems, degrees of protection, and issues like, where are the subs, are not connected to a network.
Gary had a Golden Key to advanced technology.
He broke in to Advanced Weapons, using a cleared persons username and password.
His claim of a default password is impossible, and he never said what he used.
On this end he was caught when the real person went to log on, and saw he was logged on.
After that it was very easy to track everywhere he had been, and where he did it from.
Once you know from where, any contact from there can be tracked.
All downloads are recorded, and in his evidence search, he would have a blank CD waiting to copy.
That is theft of State Secrets, not casual trespass.
The main question, how did he come by the user name and password?
Gary is lying when he says it was not protected, and open system and still cannot say what default password.
He was caught using someone else's, and if they had username for username, and password for password, or blank, they would be locked out of the system that demands a seven digit alpha/numeric for a password.
Passwords are changed faster than they can be cracked. Even that takes banks of computers. Users who try that method are noticed, tried to log on 10,000 times.
What Gary got caught at was impossible without some high level help.
Who gave him the golden key, and how did they come by it, is the question.
The law in question covers spies.
Defense Advanced Weapons is where he broke in, you can't get there from NASA. There are seperate systems, degrees of protection, and issues like, where are the subs, are not connected to a network.
Sources?
Source?
Source?
Source?
After that it was very easy to track everywhere he had been, and where he did it from.
Once you know from where, any contact from there can be tracked.
All downloads are recorded, and in his evidence search, he would have a blank CD waiting to copy.
That is theft of State Secrets, not casual trespass.
The main question, how did he come by the user name and password?
I have no reason to believe he had such, can you provide me with such a reason?
I am not aware of any reason to believe this, can you provide me with such a reason?
Passwords are changed faster than they can be cracked. Even that takes banks of computers. Users who try that method are noticed, tried to log on 10,000 times.
Sources?
Source?
I am not aware of any reason to believe he had a "golden key"; can you provide me with such a reason?
The law in question is an asymetrical abomination that entirely undermines the sovereignty of the UK, that is being applied retrospectively, and that appears is being put to a use contrary to the assurances made to the people of the UK when the treaty entered into.