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shulamith
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14 Feb 2010, 2:56 pm

First of all, tangerine12, since you also posted a thing about abortion, i wonder if you are legitimately wondering these things or trying to stir up conflict. If you are really wondering, then my apologies, by all means keep asking questions.

On this site, our official opinion on Autism Speaks is that it has a negative effect on autism awareness and pride. If you disagree, that's okay, but understand that your views aren't shared by the site creator or many users. It's a matter, at least partly, of opinion. This site is primarily for people who want to take pride in our condition, not people who want to be cured. You can still be on here, obviously, but please understand that there is a difference of opinion on this.

PS. For the record, as a feminist i am pro-choice, and i understand if a woman honestly doesn't feel she can cope with a 'low-functioning' autistic child, and it is her right to abort it, although i wish she would look into adoption or doing her best with the baby instead. But the point is that abortion should be a last resort, not a means of weeding out 'undesirables,' as Autism Speaks would make it.


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tangerine12
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14 Feb 2010, 10:30 pm

shulamith wrote:
First of all, tangerine12, since you also posted a thing about abortion, i wonder if you are legitimately wondering these things or trying to stir up conflict. If you are really wondering, then my apologies, by all means keep asking questions.

On this site, our official opinion on Autism Speaks is that it has a negative effect on autism awareness and pride. If you disagree, that's okay, but understand that your views aren't shared by the site creator or many users. It's a matter, at least partly, of opinion. This site is primarily for people who want to take pride in our condition, not people who want to be cured. You can still be on here, obviously, but please understand that there is a difference of opinion on this.

PS. For the record, as a feminist i am pro-choice, and i understand if a woman honestly doesn't feel she can cope with a 'low-functioning' autistic child, and it is her right to abort it, although i wish she would look into adoption or doing her best with the baby instead. But the point is that abortion should be a last resort, not a means of weeding out 'undesirables,' as Autism Speaks would make it.


I feel mainstream feminists support abortion on demand and without apology and by mainstream I mean NOW, NARAL, Planned Parenthood.

Abortions for weeding out undesirables such as Downs is often given by true feminists as a reason to support it. Feminists trash Sarah Palin for NOT aborting.

I don't see Autism Speaks funding for abortion is a bad thing in itself. Prenatal testing and aborting downs is okay, and gays and lesbians ok, autism is obviously on the feminist
agenda.


If Autism Speaks is behind the plot to eliminate AS from DSM V, then I'd be angry.

But not abortion.



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14 Feb 2010, 11:06 pm

tangerine12 wrote:
shulamith wrote:
First of all, tangerine12, since you also posted a thing about abortion, i wonder if you are legitimately wondering these things or trying to stir up conflict. If you are really wondering, then my apologies, by all means keep asking questions.

On this site, our official opinion on Autism Speaks is that it has a negative effect on autism awareness and pride. If you disagree, that's okay, but understand that your views aren't shared by the site creator or many users. It's a matter, at least partly, of opinion. This site is primarily for people who want to take pride in our condition, not people who want to be cured. You can still be on here, obviously, but please understand that there is a difference of opinion on this.

PS. For the record, as a feminist i am pro-choice, and i understand if a woman honestly doesn't feel she can cope with a 'low-functioning' autistic child, and it is her right to abort it, although i wish she would look into adoption or doing her best with the baby instead. But the point is that abortion should be a last resort, not a means of weeding out 'undesirables,' as Autism Speaks would make it.


I feel mainstream feminists support abortion on demand and without apology and by mainstream I mean NOW, NARAL, Planned Parenthood.

Abortions for weeding out undesirables such as Downs is often given by true feminists as a reason to support it. Feminists trash Sarah Palin for NOT aborting.

I don't see Autism Speaks funding for abortion is a bad thing in itself. Prenatal testing and aborting downs is okay, and gays and lesbians ok, autism is obviously on the feminist
agenda.


If Autism Speaks is behind the plot to eliminate AS from DSM V, then I'd be angry.

But not abortion.



First off from what I understand AS ISN"T being written out completly but will remain it the DSM as a subtype.

Secound are you even on the spectrum? According to you profile you are an NT

If you an NT why does the merging bother you so much?

The merging is based on science if you even look at the two criteria and compare and contrast them they are almost exactly the same!



tangerine12
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14 Feb 2010, 11:09 pm

ASdogGeek wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:
shulamith wrote:
First of all, tangerine12, since you also posted a thing about abortion, i wonder if you are legitimately wondering these things or trying to stir up conflict. If you are really wondering, then my apologies, by all means keep asking questions.

On this site, our official opinion on Autism Speaks is that it has a negative effect on autism awareness and pride. If you disagree, that's okay, but understand that your views aren't shared by the site creator or many users. It's a matter, at least partly, of opinion. This site is primarily for people who want to take pride in our condition, not people who want to be cured. You can still be on here, obviously, but please understand that there is a difference of opinion on this.

PS. For the record, as a feminist i am pro-choice, and i understand if a woman honestly doesn't feel she can cope with a 'low-functioning' autistic child, and it is her right to abort it, although i wish she would look into adoption or doing her best with the baby instead. But the point is that abortion should be a last resort, not a means of weeding out 'undesirables,' as Autism Speaks would make it.


I feel mainstream feminists support abortion on demand and without apology and by mainstream I mean NOW, NARAL, Planned Parenthood.

Abortions for weeding out undesirables such as Downs is often given by true feminists as a reason to support it. Feminists trash Sarah Palin for NOT aborting.

I don't see Autism Speaks funding for abortion is a bad thing in itself. Prenatal testing and aborting downs is okay, and gays and lesbians ok, autism is obviously on the feminist
agenda.


If Autism Speaks is behind the plot to eliminate AS from DSM V, then I'd be angry.

But not abortion.



First off from what I understand AS ISN"T being written out completly but will remain it the DSM as a subtype.

Secound are you even on the spectrum? According to you profile you are an NT

If you an NT why does the merging bother you so much?

The merging is based on science if you even look at the two criteria and compare and contrast them they are almost exactly the same!



From what I understand AS is now "mild"

when I try to update my profile I get

You are trying to access a restricted area.

We are Sorry but this section of our site is for Subscribed Users Only.



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14 Feb 2010, 11:20 pm

oh odd. You might try to change it again sometimes they have issues. I still don't get why the merger is bothering you so much I think it is a great thing! Also I thought it was still being kept as a subtype as well :? I like your reply speed :)



redwulf25_ci
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14 Feb 2010, 11:26 pm

tangerine12 wrote:
Abortions for weeding out undesirables such as Downs is often given by true feminists as a reason to support it. Feminists trash Sarah Palin for NOT aborting.

I don't see Autism Speaks funding for abortion is a bad thing in itself. Prenatal testing and aborting downs is okay, and gays and lesbians ok, autism is obviously on the feminist
agenda.


Citation needed.



tangerine12
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14 Feb 2010, 11:40 pm

redwulf25_ci wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:
Abortions for weeding out undesirables such as Downs is often given by true feminists as a reason to support it. Feminists trash Sarah Palin for NOT aborting.

I don't see Autism Speaks funding for abortion is a bad thing in itself. Prenatal testing and aborting downs is okay, and gays and lesbians ok, autism is obviously on the feminist
agenda.


Citation needed.


I don't talk about Autism speaks as autism genocide.



tangerine12
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14 Feb 2010, 11:41 pm

ASdogGeek wrote:
oh odd. You might try to change it again sometimes they have issues. I still don't get why the merger is bothering you so much I think it is a great thing! Also I thought it was still being kept as a subtype as well :? I like your reply speed :)



I want to talk about Asperger's but I can't b/c I know DSM-V will exterminate us.



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15 Feb 2010, 12:08 am

tangerine12 wrote:
ASdogGeek wrote:
oh odd. You might try to change it again sometimes they have issues. I still don't get why the merger is bothering you so much I think it is a great thing! Also I thought it was still being kept as a subtype as well :? I like your reply speed :)



I want to talk about Asperger's but I can't b/c I know DSM-V will exterminate us.


You can always ask them to have AS as a manner of severity of autistic disorder,

They aren't terminating you! you will still be the way you have ALWAYS been just have a new name for it!

Autism Speaks wants to terminate you and you AS.



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15 Feb 2010, 12:26 am

thier rational

New name for category, autism spectrum disorder, which includes autistic disorder (autism), Asperger’s disorder, childhood disintegrative disorder, and pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified.


Differentiation of autism spectrum disorder from typical development and other "nonspectrum" disorders is done reliably and with validity; while distinctions among disorders have been found to be inconsistent over time, variable across sites and often associated with severity, language level or intelligence rather than features of the disorder.
Because autism is defined by a common set of behaviors, it is best represented as a single diagnostic category that is adapted to the individual’s clinical presentation by inclusion of clinical specifiers (e.g., severity, verbal abilities and others) and associated features (e.g., known genetic disorders, epilepsy, intellectual disability and others.) A single spectrum disorder is a better reflection of the state of knowledge about pathology and clinical presentation; previously, the criteria were equivalent to trying to “cleave meatloaf at the joints”.

Three domains become two:

1) Social/communication deficits

2) Fixated interests and repetitive behaviors

Deficits in communication and social behaviors are inseparable and more accurately considered as a single set of symptoms with contextual and environmental specificities
Delays in language are not unique nor universal in ASD and are more accurately considered as a factor that influences the clinical symptoms of ASD, rather than defining the ASD diagnosis
Requiring both criteria to be completely fulfilled improves specificity of diagnosis without impairing sensitivity
Providing examples for subdomains for a range of chronological ages and language levels increases sensitivity across severity levels from mild to more severe, while maintaining specificity with just two domains
Decision based on literature review, expert consultations, and workgroup discussions; confirmed by the results of secondary analyses of data from CPEA and STAART, University of Michigan, Simons Simplex Collection databases
Several social/communication criteria were merged and streamlined to clarify diagnostic requirements.

In DSM-IV, multiple criteria assess same symptom and therefore carry excessive weight in making diagnosis
Merging social and communication domains requires new approach to criteria
Secondary data analyses were conducted on social/communication symptoms to determine most sensitive and specific clusters of symptoms and criteria descriptions for a range of ages and language levels
Requiring two symptom manifestations for repetitive behavior and fixated interests improves specificity of the criterion without significant decrements in sensitivity. The necessity for multiple sources of information including skilled clinical observation and reports from parents/caregivers/teachers is highlighted by the need to meet a higher proportion of criteria.

The presence, via clinical observation and caregiver report, of a history of fixated interests, routines or rituals and repetitive behaviors considerably increases the stability of autism spectrum diagnoses over time and the differentiation between ASD and other disorders.

Reorganization of subdomains increases clarity and continues to provide adequate sensitivity while improving specificity through provision of examples from different age ranges and language levels.

Unusual sensory behaviors are explicitly included within a sudomain of stereotyped motor and verbal behaviors, expanding the specfication of different behaviors that can be coded within this domain, with examples particularly relevant for younger children

Autism spectrum disorder is a neurodevelopmental disorder and must be present from infancy or early childhood, but may not be detected until later because of minimal social demands and support from parents or caregivers in early years.

Recommendations for severity criteria for this disorder are forthcoming. We encourage you to check our Web site regularly for updates.
Autistic Disorder
A. A total of six (or more) items from (1), (2), and (3), with at least two from (1), and one each from (2) and (3):

(1) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(a) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction

(b) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level

(c) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest)

(d) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

(2) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:

(a) delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)

(b) in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others

(c) stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language

(d) lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level

(3) restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(a) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

(b) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals

(c) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole body movements)

(d) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

B. Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years: (1) social interaction, (2) language as used in social communication, or (3) symbolic or imaginative play.

C. The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett’s Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder.



redwulf25_ci
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15 Feb 2010, 12:46 am

tangerine12 wrote:
redwulf25_ci wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:
Abortions for weeding out undesirables such as Downs is often given by true feminists as a reason to support it. Feminists trash Sarah Palin for NOT aborting.

I don't see Autism Speaks funding for abortion is a bad thing in itself. Prenatal testing and aborting downs is okay, and gays and lesbians ok, autism is obviously on the feminist
agenda.


Citation needed.


I don't talk about Autism speaks as autism genocide.


Let me rephrase. I need a citation on the following:

1: Abortions for weeding out undesirables such as Downs is often given by true feminists as a reason to support it.
2: Feminists trash Sarah Palin for NOT aborting.
3: Prenatal testing and aborting downs is okay
4: autism is obviously on the feminist agenda.

Possibly 5: and gays and lesbians ok

But I can't parse if you're saying "it's ok to be gay or lesbian" (duh), that YOU think it's ok to abort a fetus if you somehow know it's going to be gay/lesbian, or if you think FEMINISTS think it's ok to abort a fetus if you somehow know it's going to be gay/lesbian.



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15 Feb 2010, 7:36 am

tangerine12 wrote:
redwulf25_ci wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:
Abortions for weeding out undesirables such as Downs is often given by true feminists as a reason to support it. Feminists trash Sarah Palin for NOT aborting.

I don't see Autism Speaks funding for abortion is a bad thing in itself. Prenatal testing and aborting downs is okay, and gays and lesbians ok, autism is obviously on the feminist
agenda.


Citation needed.


I don't talk about Autism speaks as autism genocide.


Nor do I.

Citation needed.


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tangerine12
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15 Feb 2010, 6:46 pm

redwulf25_ci wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:
redwulf25_ci wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:
Abortions for weeding out undesirables such as Downs is often given by true feminists as a reason to support it. Feminists trash Sarah Palin for NOT aborting.

I don't see Autism Speaks funding for abortion is a bad thing in itself. Prenatal testing and aborting downs is okay, and gays and lesbians ok, autism is obviously on the feminist
agenda.


Citation needed.


I don't talk about Autism speaks as autism genocide.


Let me rephrase. I need a citation on the following:

1: Abortions for weeding out undesirables such as Downs is often given by true feminists as a reason to support it.
2: Feminists trash Sarah Palin for NOT aborting.
3: Prenatal testing and aborting downs is okay
4: autism is obviously on the feminist agenda.

Possibly 5: and gays and lesbians ok

But I can't parse if you're saying "it's ok to be gay or lesbian" (duh), that YOU think it's ok to abort a fetus if you somehow know it's going to be gay/lesbian, or if you think FEMINISTS think it's ok to abort a fetus if you somehow know it's going to be gay/lesbian.



e ical issues

A 2002 literature review of elective abortion rates found that 91–93% of pregnancies in the United Kingdom and Europe with a diagnosis of Down syndrome were terminated.[34] Data from the National Down Syndrome Cytogenetic Register in the United Kingdom indicates that from 1989 to 2006 the proportion of women choosing to terminate a pregnancy following prenatal diagnosis of Down Syndrome has remained constant at around 92%.[35][36] Some physicians and ethicists are concerned about the ethical ramifications of this.[37] Conservative commentator George Will called it "eugenics by abortion".[38] British peer Lord Rix stated that "alas, the birth of a child with Down's syndrome is still considered by many to be an utter tragedy" and that the "ghost of the biologist Sir Francis Galton, who founded the eugenics movement in 1885, still stalks the corridors of many a teaching hospital".[39] Doctor David Mortimer has argued in Ethics & Medicine that "Down's syndrome infants have long been disparaged by some doctors and government bean counters."[40] Some members of the disability rights movement "believe that public support for prenatal diagnosis and abortion based on disability contravenes the movement's basic philosophy and goals."[41]

Medical ethicist Ronald Green argues that parents have an obligation to avoid 'genetic harm' to their offspring,[42] and Claire Rayner, then a patron of the Down's Syndrome Association, defended testing and abortion saying "The hard facts are that it is costly in terms of human effort, compassion, energy, and finite resources such as money, to care for individuals with handicaps... People who are not yet parents should ask themselves if they have the right to inflict such burdens on others, however willing they are themselves to take their share of the burden in the beginning."[43] Peter Singer argued that "neither haemophilia nor Down's syndrome is so crippling as to make life not worth living, from the inner perspective of the person with the condition. To abort a fetus with one of these disabilities, intending to have another child who will not be disabled, is to treat fetuses as interchangeable or replaceable. If the mother has previously decided to have a certain number of children, say two, then what she is doing, in effect, is rejecting one potential child in favour of another. She could, in defence of her actions, say: the loss of life of the aborted fetus is outweighed by the gain of a better life for the normal child who will be conceived only if the disabled one dies."[44]



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15 Feb 2010, 8:07 pm

tangerine12 wrote:
So you want to protest autism speaks b/c they want to find cures and promote abortion rights?

I support this

They don't promote abortion rights, they promote the idea to abort your child because of his autism. A bit of a difference to me.

I'm pro-choice. I think every mother has the right to decide. I don't want her decision be influenced by disinformation. Just to think about all the babies who could have been aborted in the Silicon Valley, by autistic parents, who don't know they're autistic themselves, but their child is...



tangerine12
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15 Feb 2010, 8:16 pm

Omerik wrote:
tangerine12 wrote:
So you want to protest autism speaks b/c they want to find cures and promote abortion rights?

I support this

They don't promote abortion rights, they promote the idea to abort your child because of his autism. A bit of a difference to me.

I'm pro-choice. I think every mother has the right to decide. I don't want her decision be influenced by disinformation. Just to think about all the babies who could have been aborted in the Silicon Valley, by autistic parents, who don't know they're autistic themselves, but their child is...


if Autism Speaks funds for accurate genetic testing, then it's not disinformation