Page 5 of 9 [ 128 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next


Where do you stand on the issue?
pro-cure, I'm on the spectrum 14%  14%  [ 9 ]
anti-cure, I'm on the spectrum 61%  61%  [ 39 ]
pro-cure, I'm an NT parent of an ASD child 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
anti-cure, I'm a NT parent of an ASD child 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
other 23%  23%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 64

vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,001
Location: The Hoosac tunnel

15 Nov 2011, 8:47 pm

ok sorry i was confused.who said not speaking until 3 is a symtom of aspergers,thats hfa there is no speech delay in aspergers.aspergers has the fine motor delay and speech is precosious


_________________
Interesting and off beat news stories


vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,001
Location: The Hoosac tunnel

15 Nov 2011, 8:55 pm

when i was 5 my parents who i was with met i believe it was greg lamb at a clam bake on cape cod.the man who would go on to start c-span.i had at 5 years old a political discusion about the 1980 presidential election,i held my ground like a forty year old.true story


_________________
Interesting and off beat news stories


nostromo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,321
Location: At Festively Plump

15 Nov 2011, 9:08 pm

[random]
Has anyone read the Moomintroll books?
It just occured to me that the diagnostic criteria aghogday listed above for Aspergers describe the Hemulen. 8O
[/random]



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,601

15 Nov 2011, 11:53 pm

nostromo wrote:
[random]
Has anyone read the Moomintroll books?
It just occured to me that the diagnostic criteria aghogday listed above for Aspergers describe the Hemulen. 8O
[/random]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemulen

The books first came out in 1945, The clinical features, along with the way people who don't have aspergers describe those that have it are interestingly similiar.


Quote:
Hemulens (Original Swedish: hemul sg., hemuler pl.) are a species of characters in the Moomin series of books by Swedish-speaking Finnish author Tove Jansson. Hemulens feature in several of the books. One Hemulen collects butterflies, and another is an avid skier. A female Hemulen raised Moominpappa in an orphanage, and later Moominpappa encountered her aunt, who looked confusingly like her. In Comet in Moominland there appears a Hemulen who is an avid stamp-collector. In the following book, Finn family Moomintroll, he is initially depressed because he has acquired a copy of every stamp in the world, so that his life has no more meaning. He then realises he can take to botany, and collect plants, whereupon he brightens up.

Hemulens tend to have obsessive personalities, devoting themselves solidly to one interest, whether it be skiing, stamp-collecting, butterflies, or whatever. They tend also to be oblivious to the feelings and opinions of others. Other characters frequently find the Hemulens annoying or overwhelming, as they can be somewhat loud, bossy, abrasive and insensitive. However, they are well intentioned and usually have other redeeming qualities. Hemulens resemble Moomintrolls, but are taller, always grey, and have an even longer nose than moomintrolls. They all wear dresses, and Moomins cannot understand their reason for wearing so many clothes.

The Hemulens have also featured prominently in other Moomin media, such as comics and animated TV series.


This is also pretty random, but I found it interesting that cultural stereotypes of German Personality traits could be so similiar to both the lauded and criticized personality traits commonly associated with Aspergers:


http://schnitzelrepublic.blogspot.com/2010/07/seven-personality-traits-of-german.html


Quote:
The Seven Personality Traits of a German
Over the years, I've come to agree....there are are seven obvious and traditional personality traits of a typical German. I realize....that I will take heat for this. But in some ways, I consider these to be positive in certain ways. And no, not all Germans are this way....but these are the obvious ones that you will notice.


First, stubbornness. It was obvious from two world wars. It's obvious from the 1950s and the rebuilding of Germany. It's obvious from the economy stumbles....especially from the vision of Greece and its woes. A German simply holds to one ideal, and continues on. They don't change their opinion often....and when they do....it's a necessity that they approach in a mental sense and just do it.


Second, holding to traditions. If a German starts a tradition....they rarely fail to accomplish this. I would put Octoberfest as the prime example....but there are millions of these in German society. It could be the start of fall clean-up in your neighborhood and the accepted date for that. It could be the summerfest week that has gone on for sixty years in your local town. Unless a flood occurs, folks don't shift from the traditions.


Even on the personal level, there are things like a guy sticking to Opel cars for his entire life. Or the wife who demands a weekend getaway to Berlin the 2nd week of May of each year. Or the color scheme of a house that's been owned by some guy for forty-five years. It might even be the tradition of using only one car mechanic for your entire life, until he retires.


Third, thriftiness. Normally, I'd just call this cheapness....but I have to be fair here. You could walk up to most Germans and tell them they have $300 for an entire 10-day summer vacation....and somehow, they'd figure a way to enjoy their 10 days off....with such a modest amount of money.


When you look at German retirees....and what they often end up with at age 65.....and then somehow....they live off $1000 a month and you are kinda shocked how they do it.


Right now, there is this massive use of Hornbach (the German home improvement store). Instead of paying some guy to renovate your bathroom....a German will find the right Polish guy for a week....buy all the materials.....and then do the paint and tile himself.


Fourth, argumentative. This one.....some folks might argue about (get it?). Germans can find a thousand things to argue about. It could be one guy planting shrubs of a disliked nature that the neighbor can't stand. It could be the act of cranking your car for two minutes in winter to warm it up. One minute of such a cranking would be tolerated, but not two, and thus inviting an argument sooner or later.


Pointing out how you screwed up....would go hand-in-hand with this personality trait. They'd like to let you know something....and hopefully you agree....otherwise, it's an argument.


Fifth, a bit of humor that is different. The wild humor of Robin Williams doesn't work in Germany. Jerry Lewis humor doesn't really work. Seinfeld humor doesn't work. But you start to notice is a cynical sort of humor that most Germans tend to appreciate. It's the comparison of how bad the political system has become when compared to a drunk in a pub....which will make a German laugh his head off.


Germans love office humor if it's compared to their actual environment. They laugh over the stories at a butcher shop or government bureaucracy.....because they face this each and everyday.


Sixth, coldness. It could take a decade to really know your neighbor after you move in. In fact, you might never know your neighbor beyond a beer you share together once a month when mowing the grass.


You don't see cases where a German gal meets some guy and agrees to marriage within six months....that simply doesn't happen.


A German keeps this coldness.....as a defending tactic. It protects their inner circle and makes them feel secure.


Seventh and final.....creative. The little sensor that detects rainwater on the windshield of your car and automatically turns the wiper on? It's from a German. ABS? It's from a German. There are dozens of car devices which relate back to a German who just kept thinking about how things work.


It's the same with heating systems, pens, printers, tires, subway cars, and even zippers. They sit there and pause over the way things work.....and then announce this fantastic vision with just a simple toggle switch or a light sensor



Inventor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,295
Location: New Orleans

16 Nov 2011, 1:56 am

I liked the Moomintroll depressed character that everyone they touched died, and the ground froze where they sat.

We have those, but never had a name for them.



Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

16 Nov 2011, 4:24 am

aghogday wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
@aghogday.who was that last post directed at.it said gedrene but im the only one in the last few posts who said they play the piano

I was speaking to Gedrene.

You were saying that I play the Piano. But that's a completely load of balderdash. I don't pla the Piano and I never said that I did. That was someone else. Can you read rather than baselessly assume?

aghogday wrote:
My understanding now, is that he doesn't like the words "special interest", which are described below as intense absorption in certain subjects often involving minutia, so he may not think that applies to his own personal behavior, which of course is his business,

Noooo... I said that I hadn't told you any of my special interests. You seem to be stuck in very thick black and white thinking, where just because I say that you are wrong about my special interests, you assume that I have none.

aghogday wrote:
Quote:
lack of empathy, ability to take another's perspective
· naïve, inappropriate, one-sided interaction with others
· little or no ability to form friendships
· social anxiety
· pedantic, repetitive speech
· intense absorption in certain subjects, often involving minutia (e.g., train
schedules, numbers, maps)
· poor non-verbal communication, including limited use of gestures and facial
expressions
· clumsy, ill-coordinated movements, odd postures or mannerisms
· difficulty establishing and maintaining eye-contact
It ir ironic that as people age quite a few of them lose all of these identifiers of aspergers, which goes to show that they are a load of crap based on things that people with aspergers can themselves fix, or are otherwise based on social norms that we do not really give a damn about in our younger years or that NTs simply fail at teaching directly.

What is amazing is how many studies say these things all of which are generalized heavily in their meaning froma practical point of view, many of which can be normal human traits depending on the person, none of which ever simply mean the same thing, none of which together imply one disorder together.



Niall
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 483
Location: Forth Estuary Area, Western Palearctic Archipelago, Sol III, Orion Spur, Milky Way

16 Nov 2011, 7:21 am

Inventor wrote:
I can check off that list, and more.

What changed, is I bought my first bike at fifteen, and as a man-machine, I do well. Fifty years on the road, never hit anything. I have strange posture. sit crosslegged. It is natural for me, and a lot of others world wide.

They gave up on teaching me to write, I have printed all my life. I got good at it. I met several others that did the same, we all owned Rapidiograph ink pens. Thin line drafting pens, expensive then, now Bic makes them in several line widths.

---snip---
...

We are born perceptive, willing, eager to meet life, we are met with a life destroying rejection.

Some do survive, find our song, but the sorrow can be heard.


Yes, exactly. I agree, entirely.

I feel that neurotypicals are mad, merely wanting to hurt, probably to feel more powerful that something else. I'm trying not to hate both them and me. At the moment, that is hard. I do not think that we need a cure for AS. Perhaps we need a cure for their form of madness.



Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

16 Nov 2011, 8:01 am

Niall wrote:
Inventor wrote:
I can check off that list, and more.

What changed, is I bought my first bike at fifteen, and as a man-machine, I do well. Fifty years on the road, never hit anything. I have strange posture. sit crosslegged. It is natural for me, and a lot of others world wide.

They gave up on teaching me to write, I have printed all my life. I got good at it. I met several others that did the same, we all owned Rapidiograph ink pens. Thin line drafting pens, expensive then, now Bic makes them in several line widths.

---snip---
...

We are born perceptive, willing, eager to meet life, we are met with a life destroying rejection.

Some do survive, find our song, but the sorrow can be heard.


Yes, exactly. I agree, entirely.

I feel that neurotypicals are mad, merely wanting to hurt, probably to feel more powerful that something else. I'm trying not to hate both them and me. At the moment, that is hard. I do not think that we need a cure for AS. Perhaps we need a cure for their form of madness.


To be honest I would rather deal with people as individuals rather than say they are all mad.



Niall
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 483
Location: Forth Estuary Area, Western Palearctic Archipelago, Sol III, Orion Spur, Milky Way

16 Nov 2011, 8:37 am

Gedrene wrote:

To be honest I would rather deal with people as individuals rather than say they are all mad.


All of them, probably not. Enough to make the lives of anyone sensitive a misery - definitely.



Niall
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 483
Location: Forth Estuary Area, Western Palearctic Archipelago, Sol III, Orion Spur, Milky Way

16 Nov 2011, 9:10 am

I'm firmly on one side in this debate.

I don't see any point in reiterating the usual arguments for neurodiversity, but I read an interesting article in New Scientist recently, to the effect that the genes that code for several "disorders", with AS as a specific example, have had a major influence in human technological development.

The article is now behind a paywall, but my blog on the subject is not. This explains in some detail why I oppose "cures" and prenatal testing, and instead advocate the development of a more compassionate, nurturing, society. I hope some of this helps with your project.

http://runakuna.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/occupy-for-a-more-compassionate-society/

I'm currently struggling to stay on enough of an even keel to stay alive, but I'd rather die as me than live as a mentally emasculated drone of the dominant social structure.

My preferred option is to build a society that values and nurtures all its members, not just rich ones. Fighting for that is currently about my only reason to stay alive at the moment.

I hope this helps your project.



Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

16 Nov 2011, 9:56 am

Niall wrote:
Gedrene wrote:

To be honest I would rather deal with people as individuals rather than say they are all mad.


All of them, probably not. Enough to make the lives of anyone sensitive a misery - definitely.

Yeah, I guess you got a point. NTs and sensitivity is a weird concept. They're sensitive about forcing the truth and insensitive about other's feelings. Many of them also aren't very good at teaching what's the right thing to do. They just bash people around the head when they don't do it 'their way'.



Cornflake
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,969
Location: Over there

16 Nov 2011, 10:06 am

Gedrene wrote:
aghogday wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
@aghogday.who was that last post directed at.it said gedrene but im the only one in the last few posts who said they play the piano

I was speaking to Gedrene.

You were saying that I play the Piano. But that's a completely load of balderdash. I don't pla the Piano and I never said that I did. That was someone else. Can you read rather than baselessly assume?
My my, it's getting rather hot around here...
Another explanation, and one requiring no temperature elevation, is that it was a simple mistake.


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

16 Nov 2011, 10:10 am

Cornflake wrote:
My my, it's getting rather hot around here...
Another explanation, and one requiring no temperature elevation, is that it was a simple mistake.
When it becomes a habit then saying it is simply a mistake is less likely.



vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,001
Location: The Hoosac tunnel

16 Nov 2011, 12:16 pm

i think this post is illustrating the criteria for samantic pragmatic disorder,ha [email protected] yea these posts are heated but both gedrene and aghgday love the intense rivalry so i usualy let it go


_________________
Interesting and off beat news stories


Cornflake
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,969
Location: Over there

16 Nov 2011, 12:30 pm

:lol: Agreed.


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.