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MrKnowItAll
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07 Feb 2013, 4:12 pm

Earthlings
Mere Earthlings
Pathetic Earthlings
Herd People
Abnerds
Logic Atrophy Disorder Sufferers (if male)
Logic Atrophy Syndrome Sufferers (if female)

I like Normies, Kens and Barbies too.



cyberdad
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07 Feb 2013, 8:39 pm

Moriel wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Moriel wrote:
How about the term "normocentric"? I like that much better.

A renown psychiatrist called Mottron uses that term instead of "neurotypical" in his papers.

Normocentric can be construed as being 'biased' toward normality...in contrast nuerotypical pertains to having a 'typical' nueral network represemtative of mainstream society.


Well, every parent -and I am one of them- who submits their kid to an ABA program (or other kind of intensive therapies) is in fact agreeing toward the biased construction of "normality", and "conforming to the norm", imposed by mainstream society.

Thus, "normocentric" sounds pretty accurate to me: the ones who naturally conform to the norms.


Based on the context you provided 'normocentric' applies to people who view 'normal' brain wiring as conforming to societal norms. This is more of a heuristic rather than a label for describing normality.



Moriel
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08 Feb 2013, 12:23 am

cyberdad wrote:
Based on the context you provided 'normocentric' applies to people who view 'normal' brain wiring as conforming to societal norms. This is more of a heuristic rather than a label for describing normality.


No neurologist/psychiatrist/psychologist need to check how anyone's brain is wired to give a DSM diagnosis. Moreover there is no biological marker for autism (except for secondary autism such as Rett or Xfragile). The diagnosis is given based exclusively on clinical symptoms and signs. And clinical normality is defined statiscally as a bell curve of physical and psychological functioning across individuals in a society.

If "conforming to societal norm" sounds too heuristic (biased) for you, then let's say the ones in the middle of a normal distribution, which of course is just another way to say the same.


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cyberdad
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08 Feb 2013, 7:31 pm

Moriel wrote:
No neurologist/psychiatrist/psychologist need to check how anyone's brain is wired to give a DSM diagnosis. Moreover there is no biological marker for autism (except for secondary autism such as Rett or Xfragile). The diagnosis is given based exclusively on clinical symptoms and signs. And clinical normality is defined statiscally as a bell curve of physical and psychological functioning across individuals in a society..


Ok I understand this...

Moriel wrote:
If "conforming to societal norm" sounds too heuristic (biased) for you, then let's say the ones in the middle of a normal distribution, which of course is just another way to say the same.


My only point is 'nuerotypical' is a label often applied to people who appear adjusted to normal social function. Nuerocentric is a subset of nuerotypicals who gravitate or have a preference for nuerotypicals.

I agree with you that conforming to societal norms is a prerequisite for social funtionality so there is overlap..



Moriel
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08 Feb 2013, 10:47 pm

cyberdad wrote:
My only point is 'nuerotypical' is a label often applied to people who appear adjusted to normal social function. Nuerocentric is a subset of nuerotypicals who gravitate or have a preference for nuerotypicals.

I agree with you that conforming to societal norms is a prerequisite for social funtionality so there is overlap..


I understand that mybe in English the word 'centric' applied as a suffix has a slightly negative connotation (as in the ones who see normal as the "correct way"). I really appreciate your input since English is not my native language.

But to my understanding "center", "middle", "mainstream" are equally valid. Instead, I give a different set of attributes to the word "typical". Because -just to put an example- are people with ADHD NT? If you think NT as something theoretical as "typically wired brain" then maybe they are. But a person with severe ADHD might need support, like an aide for school. So that person has special needs and does not "conform to the norm". And please notice there is no moral judgement at all in my statement, just noticing the difference, and why I think it's kind of pointless to talk about "typical" when it comes to something other than the autistic spectrum.


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cyberdad
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09 Feb 2013, 4:46 am

Yes I agree with your commetns on 'typical"...labels are just designed to pigeonhole groups of people into convenient classification. I wasn;t actually trying to be scientific, more semantics relating to the accuracy of the NT label.



MrKnowItAll
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09 Feb 2013, 12:24 pm

I'm going with Herd People from now on. It gets right to the core of what's different about them. Plus, it's mildly insulting, which I think is a good thing.



Moriel
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09 Feb 2013, 1:10 pm

Cyberdad, I've enjoyed our tiny bantering about semantics and other topics with you, it has been insightful to me ;)

MrKnowItAll, Nietzsche actually defined morality as the "herd instinct of the individual". You are actually very spot on by referring to NTs as "herd people", not insulting at all. I just happen to pick my friends very well ;)


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cyberdad
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09 Feb 2013, 10:09 pm

Moriel wrote:
Cyberdad, I've enjoyed our tiny bantering about semantics and other topics with you, it has been insightful to me ;)

MrKnowItAll, Nietzsche actually defined morality as the "herd instinct of the individual". You are actually very spot on by referring to NTs as "herd people", not insulting at all. I just happen to pick my friends very well ;)


No worries Moriel, this has been the longest conversation I have had with any individual on WP. Given you are NT I guess it may be an indication I am more NT than AS ;)



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09 Feb 2013, 10:11 pm

MrKnowItAll wrote:
I'm going with Herd People from now on. It gets right to the core of what's different about them. Plus, it's mildly insulting, which I think is a good thing.

Aren't we 'herding' right now?



mango_prom
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13 Feb 2013, 10:09 am

MrKnowItAll wrote:
I'm going with Herd People from now on. It gets right to the core of what's different about them. Plus, it's mildly insulting, which I think is a good thing.


Why do you think that's actually a good thing? To take one trait of people who maybe treated you bad in the past ( =>not being autistic) and put this label on every human on earth except your arbitrarily defined sub-group is not only incredibly illogical ( there are more states one could differentiate as not "neurotypical", not only your neat little aspie-club), but also plain stupid.

How can you possibly even remotely like the idea of categorizing the world into AS vs non-AS? It's quite funny to watch self-proclaimed superior aspies just making the same mistakes like all the "NTs" they're mad at. The same logical fallacies, the same cognitive biases over and over again...Do I feel surrounded by idiots sometimes? Of course, but so does everyone else.
And let's face it, being autistic does not inherently give anybody an advantage over the rest of the world.
It's simply not true.
Yes there are mindless people out there who are not thinking for themselves at all. But you can find the same thing right here in this forum, where people diagnose their favourite rock star with autism based on youtube clips and wishful thinking, believe that an aspie republic would work better than anything we have right now and that autism is basically the next step of human evolution.

...and you talk about "herd people" while creating a superior in-group for yourself? Really? Do you notice the irony by yourself?

You know, I've had my fair share of bad experiences with people that judged me following their intution instead of using their brain. I've lost a job because they told me you can't be in nursing school while being a psychopath(!). So yeah, I absolutely hate these people. But there are 8 billion more out there. And putting a label on them all is exactly the same stupidity many autistics complain about when others do it.
So why would you insult the rest of the world? For every a**hole out there, there's also a nice caring person. And most of the elite in virtually any field, science,arts, whatever, is actually NOT autistic. That's simply a fact. Yes there are a few savants out there, but let's face it...most of the "special talents" a lot of aspies think they have are nothing but mediocre when put in the right context. Just like anybody else. We are not an elite, deal with it!



slave
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13 Feb 2013, 2:35 pm

MrKnowItAll wrote:
Earthlings
Mere Earthlings
Pathetic Earthlings
Herd People
Abnerds
Logic Atrophy Disorder Sufferers (if male)
Logic Atrophy Syndrome Sufferers (if female)

I like Normies, Kens and Barbies too.



OMD!! !! I love the way you think!! ! :P :P :P :P


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Since the birth of civilization, small sets of dominant individuals have controlled the numerical majority. Even a cursory reading of world history will substantiate this claim. Kings, Pharaohs, Emperors, Sultans, Czars, and Dictators have imposed their will upon their subjects. This pattern has not changed over the millennia and it remains so, today. Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them. They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. All those who oppose their will, will be destroyed. Given the obvious futility, I will not resist. 2+2=5.


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13 Feb 2013, 2:38 pm

mango_prom wrote:
MrKnowItAll wrote:
I'm going with Herd People from now on. It gets right to the core of what's different about them. Plus, it's mildly insulting, which I think is a good thing.


Why do you think that's actually a good thing? To take one trait of people who maybe treated you bad in the past ( =>not being autistic) and put this label on every human on earth except your arbitrarily defined sub-group is not only incredibly illogical ( there are more states one could differentiate as not "neurotypical", not only your neat little aspie-club), but also plain stupid.

How can you possibly even remotely like the idea of categorizing the world into AS vs non-AS? It's quite funny to watch self-proclaimed superior aspies just making the same mistakes like all the "NTs" they're mad at. The same logical fallacies, the same cognitive biases over and over again...Do I feel surrounded by idiots sometimes? Of course, but so does everyone else.
And let's face it, being autistic does not inherently give anybody an advantage over the rest of the world.
It's simply not true.
Yes there are mindless people out there who are not thinking for themselves at all. But you can find the same thing right here in this forum, where people diagnose their favourite rock star with autism based on youtube clips and wishful thinking, believe that an aspie republic would work better than anything we have right now and that autism is basically the next step of human evolution.

...and you talk about "herd people" while creating a superior in-group for yourself? Really? Do you notice the irony by yourself?

You know, I've had my fair share of bad experiences with people that judged me following their intution instead of using their brain. I've lost a job because they told me you can't be in nursing school while being a psychopath(!). So yeah, I absolutely hate these people. But there are 8 billion more out there. And putting a label on them all is exactly the same stupidity many autistics complain about when others do it.
So why would you insult the rest of the world? For every a**hole out there, there's also a nice caring person. And most of the elite in virtually any field, science,arts, whatever, is actually NOT autistic. That's simply a fact. Yes there are a few savants out there, but let's face it...most of the "special talents" a lot of aspies think they have are nothing but mediocre when put in the right context. Just like anybody else. We are not an elite, deal with it!


7 billion


_________________
Since the birth of civilization, small sets of dominant individuals have controlled the numerical majority. Even a cursory reading of world history will substantiate this claim. Kings, Pharaohs, Emperors, Sultans, Czars, and Dictators have imposed their will upon their subjects. This pattern has not changed over the millennia and it remains so, today. Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them. They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. All those who oppose their will, will be destroyed. Given the obvious futility, I will not resist. 2+2=5.


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13 Feb 2013, 2:40 pm

MrKnowItAll wrote:
I'm going with Herd People from now on. It gets right to the core of what's different about them. Plus, it's mildly insulting, which I think is a good thing.


I call the masses~~~~Sheeple for the same reason~~its got a nice ring to it :P :P :P


_________________
Since the birth of civilization, small sets of dominant individuals have controlled the numerical majority. Even a cursory reading of world history will substantiate this claim. Kings, Pharaohs, Emperors, Sultans, Czars, and Dictators have imposed their will upon their subjects. This pattern has not changed over the millennia and it remains so, today. Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them. They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. All those who oppose their will, will be destroyed. Given the obvious futility, I will not resist. 2+2=5.


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13 Feb 2013, 2:43 pm

HamsterOfChaos wrote:
The only thing I don't like about AS is the connotations of "syndrome." I say level the playing field: Neuro-Typical Disorder. Think of the behaviors of all the creatures on Earth, and then compare that to the bizarre social rituals and zealous need for homogeneity of the NT's. In this light, clearly they are the aberration.



Well said!! ! :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:


_________________
Since the birth of civilization, small sets of dominant individuals have controlled the numerical majority. Even a cursory reading of world history will substantiate this claim. Kings, Pharaohs, Emperors, Sultans, Czars, and Dictators have imposed their will upon their subjects. This pattern has not changed over the millennia and it remains so, today. Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them. They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. All those who oppose their will, will be destroyed. Given the obvious futility, I will not resist. 2+2=5.