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DataB4
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22 Jul 2018, 9:06 am

Interesting, a thread deliberately created to be one-sided. But since it’s here, I figure, might as well give that side it’s fair hearing.

Here are a few more points that haven’t been brought up yet. I want to start though with the hope that both sides want to reduce suffering overall, because that makes the thread a little less depressing.

Religious people hesitate to put a value, their own value, on life or death. So that’s first. I think many may even make that point the start and the end of their argument. The value of life is with God, end of story. They may even see, or attempt to find, value in extreme end-of-life suffering, or they say that if you hasten death, there's no room for a miracle.

Then there’s the question of when to allow euthanasia. But who really wants to make that decision for everyone? Not me, and I’m on the other side! Let’s say we all set some general boundary, like terminal illness, but then who decides what’s a terminal illness?So that means the doctors drive decisions, and there’s a lot of miss trust of the medical profession right now. Since you could always point to some case when a terminally ill person, near death, beat the odds, you could then start asking questions about at what stage of the terminal illness do you allow euthanasia? And then on and on, because I just keep seeing questions, regardless of the answers.

Finally, how about abuses? So the patient is unconscious and totally unresponsive, but breathing on their own. How do you judge this person's potential for future suffering? Say insurance companies cover euthanasia. Let's just kill the person then, save money, right? Never mind if they were hoping for a last few minutes to settle their affairs and say goodbye with their family, but they can’t communicate that now, too bad for them! Or the person who wants to fight their diagnosis but is being bullied, told the treatments "are a burden and won't work for long." This person feels coerced to seek out euthanasia because it takes too much strength to stand up to the naysayers. I won’t even go into the s**t about people with disabilities being coerced to end their lives.

I hope both sides would work to prevent the situations in my last paragraph. It’s most important that we find ways to value the life we have and to help others to do the same, and not give up on people. I feel like I had to say something honest and positive to end my mostly negative arguments.



Daniel89
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22 Jul 2018, 9:34 am

DataB4 wrote:
Interesting, a thread deliberately created to be one-sided. But since it’s here, I figure, might as well give that side it’s fair hearing.

Here are a few more points that haven’t been brought up yet. I want to start though with the hope that both sides want to reduce suffering overall, because that makes the thread a little less depressing.

Religious people hesitate to put a value, their own value, on life or death. So that’s first. I think many may even make that point the start and the end of their argument. The value of life is with God, end of story. They may even see, or attempt to find, value in extreme end-of-life suffering, or they say that if you hasten death, there's no room for a miracle.

Then there’s the question of when to allow euthanasia. But who really wants to make that decision for everyone? Not me, and I’m on the other side! Let’s say we all set some general boundary, like terminal illness, but then who decides what’s a terminal illness?So that means the doctors drive decisions, and there’s a lot of miss trust of the medical profession right now. Since you could always point to some case when a terminally ill person, near death, beat the odds, you could then start asking questions about at what stage of the terminal illness do you allow euthanasia? And then on and on, because I just keep seeing questions, regardless of the answers.

Finally, how about abuses? So the patient is unconscious and totally unresponsive, but breathing on their own. How do you judge this person's potential for future suffering? Say insurance companies cover euthanasia. Let's just kill the person then, save money, right? Never mind if they were hoping for a last few minutes to settle their affairs and say goodbye with their family, but they can’t communicate that now, too bad for them! Or the person who wants to fight their diagnosis but is being bullied, told the treatments "are a burden and won't work for long." This person feels coerced to seek out euthanasia because it takes too much strength to stand up to the naysayers. I won’t even go into the s**t about people with disabilities being coerced to end their lives.

I hope both sides would work to prevent the situations in my last paragraph. It’s most important that we find ways to value the life we have and to help others to do the same, and not give up on people. I feel like I had to say something honest and positive to end my mostly negative arguments.


There are millions of variations of what if, however I believe its every persons fundamental human right to end a life they never asked to have.



Spiderpig
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22 Jul 2018, 9:53 am

DataB4 wrote:
Interesting, a thread deliberately created to be one-sided. But since it’s here, I figure, might as well give that side it’s fair hearing.


What sides are you even talking about?

DataB4 wrote:
Here are a few more points that haven’t been brought up yet. I want to start though with the hope that both sides want to reduce suffering overall, because that makes the thread a little less depressing.


Maybe a little less depressing to you, but a lot farther away from reality. Not everyone cares one bit about reducing suffering overall; I for one would gladly subject every other living being on Earth to the most gruesome torture imaginable in exchange for being a little more comfortable myself if only I could, thank you very much. Talk about being one-sided.

DataB4 wrote:
Religious people hesitate to put a value, their own value, on life or death. So that’s first. I think many may even make that point the start and the end of their argument. The value of life is with God, end of story. They may even see, or attempt to find, value in extreme end-of-life suffering, or they say that if you hasten death, there's no room for a miracle.


So they don't actually give a s**t about reducing overall suffering, particularly the suffering of others. It's nice to be in good company :D

DataB4 wrote:
Then there’s the question of when to allow euthanasia. But who really wants to make that decision for everyone?


I do: just allow it always, period.


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DataB4
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22 Jul 2018, 10:07 am

It's a tragedy to lose all the good any living human can do. It's even more of a tragedy if society condones helping another end their life when there are other options they don’t see in the midst of their suffering. Suffering and depression have a way of clouding thinking, certainly my own thinking. That’s why I believe so strongly that euthanasia would need restrictions to prevent people from making a final decision they’d regret, were they to survive it. We already know that most people who attempt suicide are glad they failed. How awful it would be to assist someone who actually has a better chance at a good life than they realize?

Even in the case of end-stage terminal illness, euthanasia opponents would add to this basic point, saying that even a doctor can't predict future treatments, cures, or miracles.

I worry now that someone reading this might contemplate ending their life in some way and not reach out to others for possibilities to improve their life. That's a really scary thought to me. Like, I feel the fear of that thought.

Spiderpig wrote:
DataB4 wrote:
Interesting, a thread deliberately created to be one-sided. But since it’s here, I figure, might as well give that side it’s fair hearing.


What sides are you even talking about?


The euthanasia argument. The question was about why people believe euthanasia isn't legal. I took that to mean only the anti-euthanasia side.



Last edited by DataB4 on 22 Jul 2018, 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spiderpig
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22 Jul 2018, 2:55 pm

If you're anti-euthanasia, you're pro-dysthanasia.


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blazingstar
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22 Jul 2018, 7:14 pm

auntblabby wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
^^^ Really? I don't know this guy, but wikipedia describes a man, although a great writer and wit, as someone who was anti-democracy, anti-New Deal, pro-Ayn Rand and racist and anti-Semite. Are we talking about the same person?

he would still have the beefy certitude to put the orangatrump in his place.


True. He certainly was not a shrinking violet.


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auntblabby
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22 Jul 2018, 10:39 pm

a question that more people more often need to ask- "whose life IS it, anyway?"



Spiderpig
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23 Jul 2018, 3:56 am

Someone else's, of course. What do you expect people to do?—to stick to their own business or something?


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DevilInPgh
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23 Jul 2018, 11:56 am

Well, it might have something to do with this:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6mhitk