Response to some concerns about neurodiversity paradigm

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Mona Pereth
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06 Sep 2019, 6:10 pm

carlos55 wrote:
As a general rule in a modern society today the younger the autism diagnosis the more severe the traits in most circumstances. High functional aspergers doesnt normally get diagnosed until the teens (most of the time)

I'm pretty sure that's not true anymore. More and more kids these days are getting diagnosed at younger and younger ages.

carlos55 wrote:
So when genuine licenced invasive medical trials take place on under 15 year olds like genuine stem cell research etc it can be assumed they are severely impacted.

The last post was really a question of what ND would classify as "severe" barring in mind in ASD approx :

30% are non verbal
70% have an intellectual disorder

These statistics are very out-of-date.

According to this article on the CDC site, as of 2014: "Among the nine sites with sufficient data on intellectual ability, 31% of children with ASD were classified in the range of intellectual disability (intelligence quotient [IQ] <70), 25% were in the borderline range (IQ 71–85), and 44% had IQ scores in the average to above average range (i.e., IQ >85)."

Given the growing numbers of children diagnosed with ASD since 2014, the percentage with intellectual disability is, by now, probably even lower.

It also should be noted that the percentage of intellectual disability among autistic children is potentially far lower, even, than that. Alas, today's most popular therapy for autistic children, ABA, does not focus on cognitive development, as Jason Lu and other critics have pointed out. If therapy for young autistic children did focus on cognitive development, probably a lot fewer (although we don't know exactly how much fewer) would end up intellectually disabled.

As for the percentage of autistic children who are nonverbal, this 2013 Spectrum News article says, "Roughly 25 percent of people with autism speak few or no words. A generation ago, that figure was closer to 50 percent." Six years since 2013, the percentage is probably lower than 25%. I seem to recall seeing a figure somewhere between 15% and 20% somewhere, but I can't find it offhand.

And, again, better therapy and/or education could probably lower the percentage of nonverbal autistic children significantly.

carlos55 wrote:
Most are unable to live indep

Also not forgetting that part of the reason autism and aspergers was combined was because the boarders of severity are sometimes ambigious with many aspergers : high func sufferers in and out of mental hospitals their whole life, regardless of the assumed mild autism diagnosis.

I think we can all agree on wanting better treatments for these co-occurring conditions.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 06 Sep 2019, 8:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Mona Pereth
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06 Sep 2019, 7:28 pm

eikonabridge wrote:
My last talk was at the IEP Day conference (Saturday, May 4th, 2019): http://www.iepday.org/. I guess I can release the English version of the handout, now: http://www.eikonabridge.com/pull_not_push_english_handout.pdf. Yeah, the talk went well. But so what?

You have to understand how I use my time. I work. I raise my own children, including doing fun projects with them. I research and write. I get together with some local families. I participate in talks. So, giving talks is pretty low in my priority. It's OK, I do it once in a while, but pretty much I know the parents get excited during my talk, but when they get back home very few put my words into practice. The main thing is, between helping other people's kids, and developing my own kids, guess where I will spend my time? Ha. See, yesterday I just ordered some epoxy resin material from Amazon, so this weekend we'll do some casting with my kids. And I placed a hold in the library for Randy Pausch's "The Last Lecture" book for my daughter to read. We just came back from a vacation to Machu Picchu recently, too. Things like that. See, some friends asked me: but do children like to visit archaeological ruins? I dared not to tell them: but my kids are so well developed that their minds operate at another level! I told my children about the history of the Incas, so they could have a view about human societies and values, about the difference in technologies, things like that. I mean, other families have issues just getting their kids onto an airplane!

The sad reality, given your experience, is that most parents these days are simply not capable of using your methods. Therefore, if your methods are ever to benefit more than a tiny number of autistic kids, they need to be adopted not just (or even primarily) by parents, but by special ed preschool teachers and by early childhood autism therapists.

eikonabridge wrote:
I will contact Dr. Shore. The thing is, I don't have a whole lot of time to prepare for talks. I am still writing my second book at a snail's pace. Preparing talks eats into the time I need to spend on the book. And you know the kind of essays I write are non-trivial. I mean, I derived Dunbar's Number analytically, for instance, with math formulas. For the origin of autism, I had to search and compile research studies into color blindness, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, looking into Amazon tribes. And when I hit a jackpot with the Two-fluid model for the visual cortex, guess how many papers in liquid helium and superconductivity I had to read? What I do is extremely rare. Even rarer than the department of Social and Decision Sciences at Carnegie Mellon https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/sds/people/faculty/simon-dedeo.html. I am a one-person army in what I do. And none of what I do takes precedence over my regular work and raising my own children. I would much rather be at the passenger seat than be at the driver seat. But, right now, I am the one single person in the world doing what I do. The two-fluid model is just the beginning: it opens doors in other fields like AI as well. I mean, once you understand the level of things I do, you can also understand why I don't have time or patience to deal with parents of low-functioning children. Are they kidding me?! Sorry to say this, compared to those parents/families, I operate at a totally different level. At work I need to understand the equation of intelligence by Alex Wissner-Gross. Do people even grasp at what level I need to operate? My world is a different world.

So, if you are to be anything but a lone voice crying in the wildnerness, those of us who hear you and care about what you have to say have a responsibility to help you spread the word.

To make this easier for us, please do us one small favor that will help us help you be taken more seriously: Please update your list of conference presentations on this page to include all (or at least most) of your more recent ones, plus (if easily available -- don't knock yourself out) links to relevant handouts and/or videos, slideshows, etc. I know this probably sounds very silly, but the longer your list of conference presentations, the more likely it is that people in positions of power in the autism world will take you seriously. I would suggest that you update that page before you try to contact Dr. Stephen Shore, also.


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eikonabridge
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06 Sep 2019, 11:15 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
To make this easier for us, please do us one small favor ... the more likely it is that people in positions of power in the autism world will take you seriously.

There you are behaving like a good neurotypical. Greed, plus manipulation. I need none of that. I do things at my own pace. Everything I know, has been posted here on WrongPlanet. A person that really wants to know, has more than enough materials. Why don't you read about Grigori Perelman's story?

Or the story about Jiang Ziya's way of fishing: https://guides.wikinut.com/The-Legend-of-Jiang-Ziya/1ykkp9k./

The legend was that Jiang Ziya knew his time had come. Jiang Ziya went to fish at the riverside. Jiang Ziya set the fishhook a few meters above the water, and murmured to the fishes, “Dear fishes, if you are willing, hopped onto the hook.”

An angler approached him to advise him, “If you insist on using this method to fish, you will not catch a single fish in a hundred years.”

Jiang Ziya replied that he wanted to fish the King, not the fishes.


https://img.theepochtimes.com/assets/uploads/2015/09/JiangZiya_ZonaYeh_ET.jpgImage

I know what I am doing. That other people do well or do badly, is none of my business. Whether people want to listen or not, seriously, is none of my business. My job is simply to leave things written, which, I have done. As for saving a huge number of children, I know what to do. And it's not your way of doing things [*]. There is another way, and that is from the top down. So, leave that to me. I know what I am doing. In the mean time, those that want to know, have more than enough materials. Those that cannot make an effort? Well, as I say, it is not my business.

If your happiness depends on other people's opinion about you, then you are doing something wrong in life.

[*] I'll take this opportunity to talk about Carly Fleischmann. See, she took the route of becoming a celebrity. Had her own show, too. Now, take a look at this article: https://themighty.com/2019/02/carly-fleischmann-autism-sexual-assault/ And take a look at her book's website: https://www.carlysvoice.com/

There has been no news about her since the beginning of this year. The moral of the story for me is: live your simple life. Be happy. Fame, power, wealth, are all just illusions.

Studying autism is just a small part of my life. There are more important topics on my mind. As I have repeatedly said, autism is trivial, and boring. People knew about the solutions already thousands of years ago. I am by no means the first one.


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07 Sep 2019, 2:37 am

I used the word "approx" before because it wasnt about the exactness of figures themselves, they were ball park figures.

The question was

1. Where does the ND movement see the borders of severity i.e at what point would ND classify someone as severe enough for research? Intellectual disability, unable to live ind, no language or someone with aspergers in and out of institutions their whole life?
At what point would they set the limit to treatment?

Also:

2. What makes you believe you can succeed in studying a pathology by only studying only the severe end. Scientists need to look at the whole picture?

3. Severe autism and high fun aspergers are possibly linked in some way by similar mechanisms, even if in part, so anything that improves the brains of the worst of severe autism is possibly going to have an effect on the other end of the spectrum as well.

4. Mona: You used the sentence:-

" treatment narrowly focused on improving overall mental "efficiency" would not be objectionable"

My question "objectionable" to who?? You, the ND movement, the autism police?

Was their a vote or refferendum i missed?

One gets the general impression that ND think they "own" autism. Which of course they dont, my father didnt own cancer just like i dont "own" aspergers.

If someone like myself wanted a cure, (regardless of likelyhood) then what right does any minority of a movement have in preventing that anymore the right to deny a sex change. Science goes with demand and there are plenty of high func / aspergers sufferers that look forward to new treatments being developed regardless of alternative untested therapies out there.

-----___

By the way on a lighter side note many of you who watch CNN have seen the BREXIT chaos in the UK my country, many blame the fact we had a REMAIN voting parliament administering a LEAVE order set by the people. So naturally they messed it up.

Something about that reminds me of the wish of the ND "anti cure movement" wish to control autism research.


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Mona Pereth
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07 Sep 2019, 2:03 pm

carlos55 wrote:
I used the word "approx" before because it wasnt about the exactness of figures themselves, they were ball park figures.

Even as ballpark figures, they were radically out-of-date.

carlos55 wrote:
The question was

1. Where does the ND movement see the borders of severity i.e at what point would ND classify someone as severe enough for research? Intellectual disability, unable to live ind, no language or someone with aspergers in and out of institutions their whole life?
At what point would they set the limit to treatment?

There isn't a unified opinion on specific details. However, the important general principles that I think most autistic rights activists would agree on are:

1) That research about autism should focus primarily (but not exclusively) on the more severely disabled people and on those who have managed to move from severely disabled to much less disabled.

2) That treatment aims should focus on a person's worst specific actual problems rather than on trying to cure "autism" as a whole. (For example, if a child can't use any form of language-based communication, that's a much more severe problem than, say, lack of eye contact.)

3) That cognitive approaches should be favored over medical treatments -- and especially over radical medical treatments -- where possible. (Of course, this isn't always possible.) That today's most popular childhood autism therapies do not focus on the child's cognitive development, but should.

4) That "autism" as a whole is often (for MANY autistic people, NOT just the lucky few savants) accompanied by strengths as well as weaknesses, and that, where possible, a person's strengths should be identified and harnessed to deal with the weaknesses.

5) That "autism" as a whole would be much less of a problem in a world where we were better accepted and accommodated, and that the latter is a more desirable aim than a total "cure."

carlos55 wrote:
Also:

2. What makes you believe you can succeed in studying a pathology by only studying only the severe end. Scientists need to look at the whole picture?

I reject the idea that autism is purely a "pathology."

Anyhow, I never said the whole picture shouldn't be looked at, just that the worst specific problems of the most severely disabled people should be emphasized in research, whereas currently they are under-represented.

carlos55 wrote:
3. Severe autism and high fun aspergers are possibly linked in some way by similar mechanisms, even if in part, so anything that improves the brains of the worst of severe autism is possibly going to have an effect on the other end of the spectrum as well.

It might. (It might also have side-effects too harmful to be worth it.)

carlos55 wrote:
4. Mona: You used the sentence:-

" treatment narrowly focused on improving overall mental "efficiency" would not be objectionable"

I spoke too soon on this one. Such medications already exist, and there are controversial ethical questions about them -- not primarily from the ND movement, in this case. See articles here and here and here and here and here and here.

carlos55 wrote:
One gets the general impression that ND think they "own" autism. Which of course they dont, my father didnt own cancer just like i dont "own" aspergers.

If someone like myself wanted a cure, (regardless of likelyhood) then what right does any minority of a movement have in preventing that anymore the right to deny a sex change. Science goes with demand and there are plenty of high func / aspergers sufferers that look forward to new treatments being developed regardless of alternative untested therapies out there.


I can only try to reason with you regarding the ethical implications of the extreme degree of brain-tinkering that would be required for a total "cure." Do you really not see any ethical problems with that?

For example, given both how complex and how varied autism is, don't you see how, if all forms of autism were to be totally "curable," it would be but a small step from that to the ability to program all humans to be totally compliant slaves?

And, on a more personal note, do you really want a total and permanent "cure" for yourself at the risk of radical, unforeseeable, yet permanent and irreversible changes to your entire personality? And, yes, this would be far more likely to happen than not, given how pervasively autism affects a person's entire personality.

Why do you want such a total "cure"? Does your autism not include any positive traits at all? (Here and here and here are some lists of positive traits common among autistic people. Note: These articles contain some over-generalizations.)

What are your worst actual, real, specific problems?

Why do you feel that a total "cure" would be more desirable than the combination of (1) treatment of your worst actual, real, specific problems, and (2) a reformation of society to be more accepting of your idiosyncrasies (just like Western society has become much more accepting of LGBT people than it used to be, thanks to the LGBT rights movement)?

And, regarding the most severely disabled autistic children:

Given the strong likelihood that there exist much better ways to help them develop cognitively than the educational and therapeutic establishments are currently aware of, shouldn't research into such ways, based on the successes of parents like Jason Lu, receive substantial funding, at least on a par with the amount of funding now given to research into genetics and possible radical medical treatments?

If not, why not?

carlos55 wrote:
By the way on a lighter side note many of you who watch CNN have seen the BREXIT chaos in the UK my country, many blame the fact we had a REMAIN voting parliament administering a LEAVE order set by the people. So naturally they messed it up.

Something about that reminds me of the wish of the ND "anti cure movement" wish to control autism research.

We do want research, just with very different priorities than the current research.


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07 Sep 2019, 6:04 pm

Couldn't we have an approach that targets the debilitating effects of ASD , as opposed to an approach that sees ASD as something to be totally eradicated ?

I personally struggle to see any ASD related strengths when it comes to myself , but there's no doubt some here have great strengths. Those need to be cherished and nurtured . A complete 'cure' would take away the good as well as the bad of being on the spectrum .



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07 Sep 2019, 6:18 pm

firemonkey wrote:
Couldn't we have an approach that targets the debilitating effects of ASD , as opposed to an approach that sees ASD as something to be totally eradicated ?

Exactly. Alas, the holy grail of most autism research seems to be the latter.


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08 Sep 2019, 11:46 am

Ive not got time right now to answer all points but will leave the thread for now with a couple of interesting articles that have an alternative view on ND.

https://quillette.com/2017/10/15/proble ... -movement/


https://theautismcafe.com/the-dangers-o ... -movement/


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08 Sep 2019, 5:34 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Couldn't we have an approach that targets the debilitating effects of ASD , as opposed to an approach that sees ASD as something to be totally eradicated ?

Exactly. Alas, the holy grail of most autism research seems to be the latter.


How exactly are you coming to the conclusion that most autism research is about eradicating ASD, total cure, etc?
Which studies did you look at?



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09 Sep 2019, 10:38 am

People have their own Psychology, so do groups, even big nations. You have your "Shinning light on the hill" we have "fair play"

You also get lynch mobs and genocide where the "group" ends up doing things and inadvertently taking people in bad directions that the individuals concerned would never consider doing on their own.

What some individuals in ND may believe in like mona and many others, who may have good intentions and genuinely want to help those with severe autism is very different from the collective Psychology of ND.

Neurodiversity as a group are anti cure. Period.

Its naive to claim otherwise given the weight of evidence in the form of thousands of comments from ND followers everywhere some even neurotypical.

In fact most dont even bother distinguishing between different types of autism. To them autism is autism whether its a millionare aspie app programer, or someone on the severe end rotting in an adult care home self harming and in pain.

No cure no treatment research nothing other than non medical interventions, autism is an identity that must not be touched.

Of course no cure no treatment suits many just fine. People are entitled to not wish for treatment or cure until their actions effect the future course of others not signed up for such things.

Any thoughts of what a cure for autism would look like is just wild speculation as there is no cure at present. Science is full of things that people feared that never happened.

Its a fact if you repeat something enough many will believe it. "An autism cure will change people beyond recognition"?

There is no solid evidence for this. What makes a person? Their culture, family, religion, morals and most important memories and much much more. Its often insinuated that autism treatment would be like a hard disk format, this is impossible.

Science still doesnt know the mechanism of autism yet so how can a cure be dismissed? Its entirely possible that it may be a matter of removing a block where the autism acts as an interface between the person and outside world like the autism picture of the boy behind the stained window.

Regarding mona's claim of autistic people becoming Slaves the irony is huge.

Most of us are slaves, bossed about by neurotypical people our whole lives. Unable to live independently, 100% reliant in the generosity of NT family members and gov welfare that can all be taken away at any time. Many destined to spend middle age and above in some adult care home looked after by unmotivated min wage workers put there because they cant get work anywhere else if thats not slavery i dont know what is!


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09 Sep 2019, 11:08 am

I think you greatly overestimate ND movement's influence on research, good or bad, you simply overestimate it by several orders of magnitude.


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09 Sep 2019, 7:36 pm

Dvdz wrote:
How exactly are you coming to the conclusion that most autism research is about eradicating ASD, total cure, etc? Which studies did you look at?

I don't have time to answer this question exhaustively, so I'll just give a couple of examples of relevant things I have observed. I'll point out other examples later.

I can't really quantify this, but, among the many biological studies I've looked at over the past year or so, it seems that a disproportionately large number of them are still trying to come up with some unifying theory of autism, even though it's widely recognized that "autism" is really many different, widely varying conditions that all just happen to look similar from an NT point of view. Apparently, research focused on trying to find similar underlying biological mechanisms for "autism" in general is still what gets the most funding. This strongly suggests that the holy grail for those who fund the research is still a single big-bang "cure."

My point is not that underlying similar mechanisms of "autism" in general shouldn't be sought at all, but they should cease to be as high a priority as they apparently are now. If I were in charge of autism biology research funding, at least 30% of the funding would go into figuring out why the most severely disabled autistic people can't learn language, and at least another 30% would focus on specific problems of many autistic people across the spectrum (and some non-autistic people too), e.g. finding ways to tamp down extreme sensory sensitivities, improve sensory integration, or improve executive functioning.

Edit: For another, different, very recent example of some research news implying (without explicitly stating) the holy grail of a one-size-fits-all "cure" for autism in general, see the Spectrum News article referenced in the thread Studies of autism treatments lack standard yardsticks, and see my comments in that thread.


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09 Sep 2019, 10:37 pm

magz wrote:
I think you greatly overestimate ND movement's influence on research, good or bad, you simply overestimate it by several orders of magnitude.

Indeed, as far as I can tell, what little influence the ND movement has had on research has been mostly cosmetic. The word "cure" doesn't get used very much anymore, but the agenda is still pretty much the same, as far as I can tell.


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09 Sep 2019, 10:43 pm

carlos55 wrote:
Ive not got time right now to answer all points but will leave the thread for now with a couple of interesting articles that have an alternative view on ND.

https://quillette.com/2017/10/15/proble ... -movement/

The essence of this person's complaint is:

Quote:
It may be the case that accommodations are the way to go for those that are mildly autistic and have a very mild variant such as Asperger’s, but for many autistic people, especially those labelled as ‘severe’ in their disability, the view that this is essentially all the fault of society is hardly persuasive. And in its most disabling forms, autism cannot be viewed merely as benign variation in human neurology. Self-injurious autistic behaviours such as head-banging and arm-scratching which are often associated with severe forms of the condition are evidently pathological. Given the severity of such symptoms, parents, carers, and relatives of such individuals who engage in them can be forgiven for wanting an autism cure.

Most of that "head-banging and arm-scratching" is done by people who can't talk and can't otherwise use language-based communication.

As I've said many times before in this and other threads here, their main problem is their lack of language-based communication, not their autism per se. Hence their lack of language-based communication, not their autism per se, is what most urgently needs to be "cured."

Alas, hardly any autism biological research focuses on this specific issue at all. In the meantime, severely disabled autistic children should be given therapy that focuses on their cognitive development rather than on trying to get them to make eye contact just like an NT.

carlos55 wrote:
https://theautismcafe.com/the-dangers-of-the-neurodiversity-movement/

This article features a Twitter war.

Alas, people on just about every conceivable side of just about every conceivable controversy say very nasty things on Twitter. Such is the nature of Twitter.

Such is the nature of any very large, fast-moving, unmoderated (or very loosely moderated) Internet forum or social media platform, especially one designed for people with short attention spans. On just about any forum or social media platform of this kind, people are prone to jumping to all manner of nasty conclusions about their opponents and forming virtual lynch mobs, rather than making any attempt to reason with each other. Back in the late 1990's, unmoderated Usenet newsgroups were notorious for this sort of thing. Today's social media, especially Twitter, are even worse than Usenet.

Twitter is not a good place to find well-reasoned arguments of any kind, on any topic. Judging any point of view primarily by the behavior of its Twitter choir is just not fair.

As major social media platforms go, Quora is much better than Twitter. I personally don't like Quora because it (like Facebook) has an official policy of requiring people to use their legal names. However, people there at least tend to be more civil, and more sensible, regardless of what they are advocating.

Besides Quora, and besides small specialized forums like Wrong Planet, another place to find reasonable, well-thought-out neurodiversity advocacy is on various blogs by autistic people that have been around the scene for a long time.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 09 Sep 2019, 11:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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09 Sep 2019, 10:47 pm

carlos55 wrote:
Any thoughts of what a cure for autism would look like is just wild speculation as there is no cure at present. Science is full of things that people feared that never happened.

Its a fact if you repeat something enough many will believe it. "An autism cure will change people beyond recognition"?

There is no solid evidence for this. What makes a person? Their culture, family, religion, morals and most important memories and much much more. Its often insinuated that autism treatment would be like a hard disk format, this is impossible.

Even a temporary change to just one trait (e.g. how much and/or what kind of empathy one has) can radically alter one's life, and can even result in a radical reinterpretation (correct or not) of one's memories. That much is known already. See An Experimental Autism Treatment Cost Me My Marriage by John Elder Robison, March 18, 2016, and The shocking experience of finally seeing the full spectrum of emotion, PBS, April 27, 2016.

(Incidentally, Robison didn't really become NT, even in terms of just that one trait (much less his autistic traits in general). There are lots of autistic people who experience emotional contagion and are overwhelmed by it, just as he was, post-treatment. His article mistakenly assumes that autistic people in general just have low empathy, as he himself had, pre-treatment. That is now known to be a vast over-generalization.)

If a change to just one autistic trait can turn a person's life upside down, even altering the person's memories, then all the more so would a change to numerous autistic traits, much less a complete "cure."

carlos55 wrote:
Science still doesnt know the mechanism of autism

There's no single one "mechanism of autism." That much is known by now, or should be.

carlos55 wrote:
yet so how can a cure be dismissed? Its entirely possible that it may be a matter of removing a block where the autism acts as an interface between the person and outside world like the autism picture of the boy behind the stained window.

Nope. There's a reason why, in the DSM IV, the autistic spectrum disorders were called "pervasive" developmental disorders. For many of us at least, autism is "pervasive," involving many different traits. Many NT parents of autistic kids may like to fantasize that their autistic child is really just an NT child trapped behind a fogged-up window, but that's just a fantasy.

carlos55 wrote:
Regarding mona's claim of autistic people becoming Slaves

Not just (or even primarily) autistic people becoming slaves, but people in general becoming slaves on a more profound level than was ever possible before in human history.

If and when precision brain-tinkering ever becomes an everyday reality, it's easy to imagine how it could be abused by totalitarian governments, and also how parents in relatively democratic countries too would be pressured to allow it to be used on their children to treat more ... and more ... and more childhood "abnormalities" so their children become more obedient and fit in better ... and better ... and better ... and better with corporate culture, etc.

carlos55 wrote:
the irony is huge.

Most of us are slaves, bossed about by neurotypical people our whole lives. Unable to live independently, 100% reliant in the generosity of NT family members and gov welfare that can all be taken away at any time. Many destined to spend middle age and above in some adult care home looked after by unmotivated min wage workers put there because they cant get work anywhere else if thats not slavery i dont know what is!

This is why we need autistic friendly workplaces. This is why autistic children need therapy that focuses on their cognitive development, and on discovering and developing their strengths, whatever they might be. This is why we need an organized community to help us look out for our own and each others' interests.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 09 Sep 2019, 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mona Pereth
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Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,810
Location: New York City (Queens)

09 Sep 2019, 11:26 pm

See also the separate thread Vikie Shanks: What Every "Autism Parent" Should Strive to Be.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter (new as of 2021)