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Mona Pereth
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22 Feb 2020, 7:18 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
I'm not blowing off your idea of peer support groups @Mona_Pereth, I just am so busy that I can't really be involved in starting one up in my area.

Would you have the time and inclination to attend a peer support group if someone else in your local area were to start one and it met at a convenient time?

If so ....

Whale_Tuune wrote:
I'm Christian

What branch of Christianity, and what general kind (and size) of church do you attend?

If you happen to attend a church with a large or large-ish congregation but also a lot of small, specialized groups that meet during the week, then perhaps you could suggest to your pastor the idea of some sort of small group (whatever kind of group would be appropriate, given the type of church) for adults on the autism spectrum? Your pastor would be in a better position than you to put out a call to interested members of the congregation and to find someone willing and able to lead the group.


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Whale_Tuune
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22 Feb 2020, 8:22 am

Small-ish congregation. Basic issue atm is that I am a college Junior trying to get together internships, classes finished, OCD therapy and all. I go to college on Long Island. So it's difficult to do much.

I can see about that. I'm an Orthodox Christian.


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vermontsavant
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22 Feb 2020, 8:56 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
I'm an Orthodox Christian.


Which orthodox,Greek orthodox,eastern orthodox,Russian orthodox,Serbian orthodox,Armenian orthodox,Oriental orthodox.

Although G.K Chesterton refered to himself as "Christian orthodox" and he was Anglican.


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Whale_Tuune
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22 Feb 2020, 10:25 am

Russian, Serbian, and Greek are all "Eastern Orthodox" (technically, that is the denomination).

Armenian Orthodox is Oriental Orthodox (technically a different sect of Christianity to EO, but so similar that the two are sometimes conflated).

I am simply "Eastern Orthodox", I don't pay attention to ethnic labels.


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22 Feb 2020, 10:29 am

Yea Oriental orthodox parted ways with the other churches in the 5th century.But the rest are in communication with each and sort of under the same umbrella.


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ASPartOfMe
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22 Feb 2020, 11:16 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
Small-ish congregation. Basic issue atm is that I am a college Junior trying to get together internships, classes finished, OCD therapy and all. I go to college on Long Island. So it's difficult to do much.

AANE Ongoing/Drop-In Support Groups for Adults
Quote:
Ongoing/Drop-In support groups for adults on the autism spectrum meet in person at regularly scheduled times. Newcomers are always welcome!

New York Ongoing/Drop-In Support Groups do not require pre-registration and are no cost.

Brentwood (Suffolk County), NY - Saturday - Adult Ongoing/Drop-In Support Group Saturdays, 2:30 pm - 4:30 pm, YAI: Seeing Beyond Disability, 555 Washington Ave, Brentwood, NY Upcoming Meetings:

January 11, February 8, March 14, April 11


Brookville (Nassau County), NY - Thursday - Out on the Spectrum Ongoing/Drop-In Support Group, for post-high school adults who identify as being both on the Autism and LGBTQ spectrums Thursdays 3:00 pm - 4:30 pm, 189 Wheatley Rd., Conference Room, Brookville, NY Upcoming Meetings:

February 6, March 5, April 2


Manhattan, NY - Tuesday - Adult Ongoing/Drop-In Support Group, 6:30 pm - 8:00 pm, 303 Fifth Ave., Suite 1003, 10th Fl. (between 31-32nd St.) Upcoming Meetings:

January 21, February 18, March 17, April 21


Manhattan, NY - Tuesday - Adult Women's Ongoing/Drop-In Support Group, 6:30 pm - 8:00 pm, 303 Fifth Ave., Suite 1003, 10th Fl. (between 31-32nd St.) Upcoming Meetings:

January 28, February 25, March 24, April 28

I do not know where on Long Island you go to school but without a car most Long Island groups are probably hard to get to without a car. The Out on The Spectrum group is right on the LIU Post campus. The Manhattan groups are a 5 or 10 minute walk from Penn Station. Penn Station is the the main terminus for the Long Island Railroad. I am not sure but there should be some sort of easy access to the Long Island Railroad from most Long Island campuses.


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Mona Pereth
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22 Feb 2020, 11:53 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
Small-ish congregation. Basic issue atm is that I am a college Junior trying to get together internships, classes finished, OCD therapy and all. I go to college on Long Island. So it's difficult to do much.

I can see about that. I'm an Orthodox Christian.

Long Island! There are already some support groups around here in the NYC metro area. ASPartOfMe just now posted info about AANE's professional-led groups on Long Island and in Manhattan. There is also a peer-led organization in Manhattan called Aspies for Social Success, and I have a small peer-led group that meets in Queens (see my sig).


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23 Feb 2020, 1:50 pm

The problem is many particularly advocates want to over complicate things, it’s really not that hard to navigate the issue.

Autism is a medical disorder, not an identity / different way of being or type of left handedness as I heard somewhere.

Autism is a whole body disorder that originates from the brain that effects not only psychological / neurological functioning but fine / gross motor skills, and causes other health issues as well, such as faulty electrical activity in the brain ( epilepsy) stomach and heart issues and increased dementia risk in advanced age, which is the part cause of our much lower life expectancy, if one excludes accidents and suicide.

Advocates want to separate autism from all the other disorders associated with it, but this is not possible. Their is no "pure autism", its a collection of overlapping disorders & multiple genetic faults as scientists recently confirmed in the beginning of this video.

https://www.simonsfoundation.org/event/ ... disorders/

Obviously grown adults should be free to choose their own bodies and path in life, but for those with more manageable milder symptoms to dictate to the medical community and others, that there should be "no cure" developed for any including severe autism like those in ND claim is just unethical and selfish.

There is only one reason ND are against a cure and its because they want to create an "identity" out of it for what they in their misguided belief will bring them benefits (it wont), to the detriment of those who are unable to voice their opinion because they are to disabled by their autism.

I read somewhere like a person with designer spectacles saying I quite like being short sighted so no eye disorders or blindness should be cured.

The benefits and acceptance that ND believe would happen with an "identity" simply wont, the word autistic is already considered an alternative to the "R word" as already recently discussed on this site. All that will happen is we will go from being human with a disorder to be simply dumped into a genetic underclass and de-humanised with all that will entail.

The bright future advocates crave may simply end up being Sterilisation for food stamps and services.


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24 Feb 2020, 10:41 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
I clearly remember In school I daily fell and tripped amd hurt my knees. And scraped my hands.broke a tooth etc.

But outside of school I dont.

Why .. because the processing that school took took my brain away from coordinated movements.. my mom wd yell at me that I dont walk in a straight line.. my teacher wd make me sit after class to say stop leaning and drooping. But the processing of the situation made my body limp and hard to move properly at times.
Or if I sat upright I cd no longer focus the same way.

In a more autistic-friendly world, you would be allowed to sit in whatever position you need in order to focus on the lesson. You also would not be yelled at for your inability to combine "coordinated movements" with academic learning.

This wouldn't solve all your problems, of course, but at least it wouldn't exacerbate them.

blooiejagwa wrote:
So I dont know if that is categorized logically as mental illness or just plain obstacles that u cant get rid of permanently.. is there a better term for that?

It's an "impairment" but not necessarily an "illness." Innate impairments, such as learning disabilities and physical clumsiness, are not usually called "illnesses" unless they are extreme.



Ok thanks

Like how there Is an overlap of things eg like more epilepsy or hypotonia or EDS in asd than non asd, but that doesnt mean they sre one and the same thing, they sre separate conditions thst overlap perhaps due to similar causes. Is what That might be. Like epilepsy obv has to be managed with meds for seizures and it really diminishes your strength and it can even make a person get physically injured regularly so I guess that is an illness and impairment combined


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24 Feb 2020, 1:49 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
Ok thanks Like how there Is an overlap of things eg like more epilepsy or hypotonia or EDS in asd than non asd, but that doesnt mean they sre one and the same thing, they sre separate conditions thst overlap perhaps due to similar causes. Is what That might be. Like epilepsy obv has to be managed with meds for seizures and it really diminishes your strength and it can even make a person get physically injured regularly so I guess that is an illness and impairment combined


The genetic defects that cause autism create a smorgasbord of other disorders some well known like epilepsy others not well known like aphantasia, the impairment of the ability to form visual images. There is no pure benevolent autism.

The social model of autism pushed by advocates is largely nonsense. The idea that we can only function in a parallel universe where everything is perfect and we don't need to do the things NT`s do to survive like go out in the world to earn a living and support ourselves.

There is only one earth that wasn't built for humans, evolution built humans to function on it.

We make up only 1% of the pop, the other 99% are not going to change apart from a few minor concessions like quite hour at the store and educational tweaks here and there that will do very little for those severely effected. Most of what advocates want like an end to the open office are unpopular with NTs (the 99%) or uneconomic to implement. That's a fact im afraid that advocates are sadly going to have to get used to.

Our main salvation is via future medical treatments.


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24 Feb 2020, 6:50 pm

carlos55 wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
Ok thanks Like how there Is an overlap of things eg like more epilepsy or hypotonia or EDS in asd than non asd, but that doesnt mean they sre one and the same thing, they sre separate conditions thst overlap perhaps due to similar causes. Is what That might be. Like epilepsy obv has to be managed with meds for seizures and it really diminishes your strength and it can even make a person get physically injured regularly so I guess that is an illness and impairment combined


The genetic defects that cause autism create a smorgasbord of other disorders some well known like epilepsy others not well known like aphantasia, the impairment of the ability to form visual images. There is no pure benevolent autism.

The social model of autism pushed by advocates is largely nonsense. The idea that we can only function in a parallel universe where everything is perfect and we don't need to do the things NT`s do to survive like go out in the world to earn a living and support ourselves.

There is only one earth that wasn't built for humans, evolution built humans to function on it.

We make up only 1% of the pop, the other 99% are not going to change apart from a few minor concessions like quite hour at the store and educational tweaks here and there that will do very little for those severely effected. Most of what advocates want like an end to the open office are unpopular with NTs (the 99%) or uneconomic to implement. That's a fact im afraid that advocates are sadly going to have to get used to.

Our main salvation is via future medical treatments.


I never said or I implied there was a pure benevolent autism?? I ont understand your post. Shats wrong with seeking enough acocommodations that a kind happy child isnt treated like an animal for example as mine has been .. for convenience of supposed educators and since he is non verbal he cant complain we only found out from surprise visits that his care coordinator wd do that he was essentially in a corner for no reason strapped to a chair all day rarely changed diaper hence all the soiled clothes at school though at home he almost never has had them... etc.. learning nothing.. no reason ..


Just that the others... non autistic but cerebral palsy kids.. were easier n more fun for the EAs to work withas they had more understanding...


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carlos55
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25 Feb 2020, 11:31 am

blooiejagwa wrote:
I never said or I implied there was a pure benevolent autism?? I ont understand your post. Shats wrong with seeking enough acocommodations that a kind happy child isnt treated like an animal for example as mine has been .. for convenience of supposed educators and since he is non verbal he cant complain we only found out from surprise visits that his care coordinator wd do that he was essentially in a corner for no reason strapped to a chair all day rarely changed diaper hence all the soiled clothes at school though at home he almost never has had them... etc.. learning nothing.. no reason .


Just to clarify society should accomodate autistic people as much as it can and nobody should be treated like an animal.

Unfortunatly some advocates push the social model of disability to the extreme pretending that its a valid ALTERNATIVE to disability medical treatment research.

They push fanciful unrealistic dreams of societal change that they hold up as a valid alternative to vulnerable people which will never happen.

Many will never happen because they are unpopular with the 99%, clash with normal human behaviour or are just unecconomical or unrealistic.

Unfortunatly this isnt without its consequences-

What happens when autistic people realise the lie they bought?

How many lost years of research funding and time that could have changed lives becuse it was un pc?

How many autistic people will be de-disabled by social security and have help removed because autism is a superpower not a disability right?


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25 Feb 2020, 1:26 pm

I know what you are saying and I agree as we have already seen its effects. Where they ignore the more severe case of ASD because it's easier to work with the less severe, and they just treat them like they dont have problems in comparison. Everything becomes twisted because of it. I had many arguments with morons on Twitter who were disgusting about it TO me, like they would retweet my thing to say parents ruin lives, by pushing therapy, etc
i HAD to tell them that without therapy my kid couldnt sip water. still rarely does, but he CAN at least.
he needed to be worked through everything.
they still didnt understand and said things like well MY parents taught me myself they didnt subject me to trauma of therapy.
they came onto my youtube videos to try and say the same.

when they run out of arguments,
they try and take the moral high ground by saying ' you seem overly eager to justify yourself' or something similar...


they didnt believe me when i said my kid loves therapy either, they said i was 'speaking for him' well duh . he's not on twitter, im merely seeing the only way he communicates, which is nonverbal, and inferring complete joy and happiness from his behaviour.

morons.

they are disgustingly close-minded and almost like a cult in the way they approach the idea of severe ASD..
i know it's not from THEIR ASD because they can change their mind and open up to other things judging from what they say...

but yeah i see what you're saying now


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25 Feb 2020, 1:34 pm

feelings vs facts basically.
although they are justified in a lot because i saw bad therapy and bad professionals too and they still are prone to it so the parent HAS to advocate (which of course is 'speaking for the child' and 'projecting' and is a sin too apparently) because often they are very wrong and assume bad behaviour when its legit and has a real reason etc

also i read books in which professionals were so ew and their attitude came through. they may have contributed a lot to the field and to improving their clients' lives and others, but things stuck out that were like what?!?! are you a Nazi???

i try to take the good and leave the rest, but its really impossible sometimes, as it taints everything.
not with everyone, but i see the twitter people's reasons too... they just should stick to wrongplanet because I think TWITTERs format turns everyone to psychopaths in their way of thinking... it makes it fleeting and superficial and just wrong...not thorough...
but anyway..

like this Glenn Dorman man, from a book called 'what to do about your brain injured child'
a super informative and beneficial read..
still, it was obvious his attitude wasnt completely pure and noble, and it really 'left a bad taste in my mouth'

here's an example (i might be slightly paraphrasing)

he said that he figured out the developmental stages (thus what therapy shd target as each stage progresses for the more delayed child)...

by asking himself the question 'what stages does it take to develop and become a human?"
by stages he mentioned , first you crawl, then u prop yourself up.
first you think like this, then you become aware of colours, etc.
and therapy was to help them achieve those stages in succession.

essentially he was implying that his clients/kids he saw and helped were NOT human.

you're born human. :roll:


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carlos55
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25 Feb 2020, 3:28 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
I know what you are saying and I agree as we have already seen its effects. Where they ignore the more severe case of ASD because it's easier to work with the less severe, and they just treat them like they dont have problems in comparison. Everything becomes twisted because of it. I had many arguments with morons on Twitter who were disgusting about it TO me, like they would retweet my thing to say parents ruin lives, by pushing therapy, etc
i HAD to tell them that without therapy my kid couldnt sip water. still rarely does, but he CAN at least.
he needed to be worked through everything.
they still didnt understand and said things like well MY parents taught me myself they didnt subject me to trauma of therapy.
they came onto my youtube videos to try and say the same.

when they run out of arguments,
they try and take the moral high ground by saying ' you seem overly eager to justify yourself' or something similar...


they didnt believe me when i said my kid loves therapy either, they said i was 'speaking for him' well duh . he's not on twitter, im merely seeing the only way he communicates, which is nonverbal, and inferring complete joy and happiness from his behaviour.

morons.

they are disgustingly close-minded and almost like a cult in the way they approach the idea of severe ASD..
i know it's not from THEIR ASD because they can change their mind and open up to other things judging from what they say...

but yeah i see what you're saying now


Yes I know what you mean about the nastiness see this article :

https://theautismcafe.com/the-limits-of ... -movement/

To be honest I would avoid getting into twitter debates with them, some of these people can behave like a deranged cult, (like ISIS or The Terminator can`t be reasoned with) and its unmoderated too, so it will just drive you into a crazy shouting match where any common sense from their side will be discarded, (see link) the stress will eventually damage your mental health.

If you must debate autism choose neutral moderated discussion sites like WP. :wink:

See this link about acceptance to get my point:

https://faithmummy.wordpress.com/2019/0 ... e-too-far/

I'm sorry about what happened to your son by the way, I hope his condition improves as he ages and he eventually gets psychological peace.


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29 Feb 2020, 10:24 am

blooiejagwa wrote:
feelings vs facts basically.
although they are justified in a lot because i saw bad therapy and bad professionals too and they still are prone to it so the parent HAS to advocate (which of course is 'speaking for the child' and 'projecting' and is a sin too apparently) because often they are very wrong and assume bad behaviour when its legit and has a real reason etc

also i read books in which professionals were so ew and their attitude came through. they may have contributed a lot to the field and to improving their clients' lives and others, but things stuck out that were like what?!?! are you a Nazi???

i try to take the good and leave the rest, but its really impossible sometimes, as it taints everything.
not with everyone, but i see the twitter people's reasons too... they just should stick to wrongplanet because I think TWITTERs format turns everyone to psychopaths in their way of thinking... it makes it fleeting and superficial and just wrong...not thorough...
but anyway..

Agreed about Twitter. I stay off of major social media including Twitter for precisely this reason, among other reasons.

I would also say that one should not judge the validity of any viewpoint based on the behavior of its Twitter choir. They all turn into nasty, arrogant, conclusion-jumping lynch mobs on Twitter.


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