Identity Politics and Autistic Guilt
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No one in the BLM movement is actually saying that "you" are personally guilty of society's racism, they are only asking that you acknowledge that it exists, and that it hurts black people, and that, because this societal bias exists, it has benefited white people overall, even if you personally are still struggling and are not seeing any tangible benefit.
The BLM movement has been hijacked by extreme Marxists.
It has lost credibility/integrity, imo.
Also, you can't generalise like that.
It's very ironic that you would say I am generalizing, given what you have posted, which is a generalization, but I will respond. The BLM movement is a movement. It has specific positions and goals. Saying that it has positions and goals and saying what they are is not generalizing. It is making a factual statement. If there is someone who is saying things that are at odds with those positions, even if they claim to be speaking on behalf of the movement, they are not, and what they say doesn't count as something that BLM is saying.
Used that way by whom? Just because some annoying person says something annoying and wrongheaded, that doesn't make it a thing or point of view that is being used in a particular way. I'm not aware of anyone who has credibility or a platform, like a well-known activist or author or professor or journalist, who has used the concept of white privilege in the way that you describe.
BLM is not an organization and not everyone who is in the coalition agrees, but they certainly have a common goal and a common position, which can certainly be stated and pointed out, and if someone says something completely at odds with it, they can't claim to be speaking for BLM.
ASPartOfMe
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Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,405
Location: Long Island, New York
Used that way by whom? Just because some annoying person says something annoying and wrongheaded, that doesn't make it a thing or point of view that is being used in a particular way. I'm not aware of anyone who has credibility or a platform, like a well-known activist or author or professor or journalist, who has used the concept of white privilege in the way that you describe.
This is what the phrase "Check your privilege" is about.
This is 2020 and many important things happen not by official authorities but on social media.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
funeralxempire
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Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,452
Location: Right over your left shoulder
Used that way by whom? Just because some annoying person says something annoying and wrongheaded, that doesn't make it a thing or point of view that is being used in a particular way. I'm not aware of anyone who has credibility or a platform, like a well-known activist or author or professor or journalist, who has used the concept of white privilege in the way that you describe.
This is what the phrase "Check your privilege" is about. This is 2020 and many important things happen not by official authorities but on social media.
I'm not sure how it's a problem to tell people who haven't lived an experience to listen to those who have when they describe their experience.
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Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,405
Location: Long Island, New York
Used that way by whom? Just because some annoying person says something annoying and wrongheaded, that doesn't make it a thing or point of view that is being used in a particular way. I'm not aware of anyone who has credibility or a platform, like a well-known activist or author or professor or journalist, who has used the concept of white privilege in the way that you describe.
This is what the phrase "Check your privilege" is about. This is 2020 and many important things happen not by official authorities but on social media.
I'm not sure how it's a problem to tell people who haven't lived an experience to listen to those who have when they describe their experience.
Then just tell people to listen to people who have the experience instead of the hostile accusatory expression "Check Your privilege". Personal example. A few years ago you had a bunch of people in comment sections demanding people on the spectrum describe themselves as a "person with autism" because they claimed "autistic" is offensive. When that happened I could have told them to Check their neurotypical privilege. What I did was inform them I likely have 60+more years experience of being autistic then they do so my opinion of what is offensive to me carries more weight than theirs. I made it centrally about them and me not centrally the groups we were born into. I never got any response that I can recall. Many others used similar tactics. That demand rarely happens anymore. The conversation stays related to the video or blog people are commenting on. If we all told them to check their privilege or just used the phrase "privilege" my guess is the person first - identity first flame wars would still be going on because instead of getting to the point we would have offended them.
Related what I also never do is demand they use "autistic". I let them use "person with autism" to their heart's content while I use "autistic" to my heart's content. I will only get offended and react if they demand I use person-first language.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
Used that way by whom? Just because some annoying person says something annoying and wrongheaded, that doesn't make it a thing or point of view that is being used in a particular way. I'm not aware of anyone who has credibility or a platform, like a well-known activist or author or professor or journalist, who has used the concept of white privilege in the way that you describe.
This is what the phrase "Check your privilege" is about.
This is 2020 and many important things happen not by official authorities but on social media.
I didn't say anything about official authorities, I only referred to people who have a platform (which would include someone with a significant social media following) or are well-known in the movement, etc.
White privilege is easy to disprove. Take, for example, the economic, health, and educational outcomes of Americans and see if they are the same regardless of race. If they are, then white privilege is not a thing. Individual cases and anecdotes cannot disprove it. It really is whether there is a bias in the system.
If you want to do well in life in the US, being born white will give an edge. Just as gender and socioeconomic background (class) can tip the scales. This should not come as a surprise.
No one in the BLM movement is actually saying that "you" are personally guilty of society's racism, they are only asking that you acknowledge that it exists, and that it hurts black people, and that, because this societal bias exists, it has benefited white people overall, even if you personally are still struggling and are not seeing any tangible benefit.
The BLM movement has been hijacked by extreme Marxists.
It has lost credibility/integrity, imo.
Also, you can't generalise like that.
It's very ironic that you would say I am generalizing, given what you have posted, which is a generalization, but I will respond. The BLM movement is a movement. It has specific positions and goals. Saying that it has positions and goals and saying what they are is not generalizing. It is making a factual statement. If there is someone who is saying things that are at odds with those positions, even if they claim to be speaking on behalf of the movement, they are not, and what they say doesn't count as something that BLM is saying.
Let us agree to disagree.
Would any here argue that it doesn't exist?
Does pointing it out amount to imposing some sort of 'neurotypical guilt' on those who benefit from it? (of course not)
Why do so many posters here insist on pretending other forms of privilege don't exist because their life isn't pure success? Benefiting from privilege doesn't mean you won't also struggle, it just means you'll be spared some sources of struggle.
I agree - why are you pretending I don't?
I'm not suggesting you're one of the posters who disagrees with that, at least that wasn't my intent. I was just asking it because it's a common trope here.
Ah ok.
I think because a lot of WP is right wing & buys into people like Jordan Peterson. Or considers 'Marxist' a dirty word akin to stalinist.
In our current society, autistic guilt would be more like self hate for being Black.
White guilt is pretty useless though, it just makes everything about white fragility. I've read from Black people that they don't want this. Same as I don't want a neurotypical making prejudice against autistic people all about them and how 'bad they feel for me' etc.
_________________
Not actually a girl
He/him
Would any here argue that it doesn't exist?
Does pointing it out amount to imposing some sort of 'neurotypical guilt' on those who benefit from it? (of course not)
Why do so many posters here insist on pretending other forms of privilege don't exist because their life isn't pure success? Benefiting from privilege doesn't mean you won't also struggle, it just means you'll be spared some sources of struggle.
I agree - why are you pretending I don't?
I'm not suggesting you're one of the posters who disagrees with that, at least that wasn't my intent. I was just asking it because it's a common trope here.
Ah ok.
I think because a lot of WP is right wing & buys into people like Jordan Peterson. Or considers 'Marxist' a dirty word akin to stalinist.
In our current society, autistic guilt would be more like self hate for being Black.
White guilt is pretty useless though, it just makes everything about white fragility. I've read from Black people that they don't want this. Same as I don't want a neurotypical making prejudice against autistic people all about them and how 'bad they feel for me' etc.
Jordan Peterson used lobsters to study dominance and social hierarchy in humans,or what I mean is his theory of dominance and social hierarchy in humans is based on his study of lobsters,enough said.
_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
Would any here argue that it doesn't exist?
Does pointing it out amount to imposing some sort of 'neurotypical guilt' on those who benefit from it? (of course not)
Why do so many posters here insist on pretending other forms of privilege don't exist because their life isn't pure success? Benefiting from privilege doesn't mean you won't also struggle, it just means you'll be spared some sources of struggle.
I agree - why are you pretending I don't?
I'm not suggesting you're one of the posters who disagrees with that, at least that wasn't my intent. I was just asking it because it's a common trope here.
Ah ok.
I think because a lot of WP is right wing & buys into people like Jordan Peterson. Or considers 'Marxist' a dirty word akin to stalinist.
In our current society, autistic guilt would be more like self hate for being Black.
White guilt is pretty useless though, it just makes everything about white fragility. I've read from Black people that they don't want this. Same as I don't want a neurotypical making prejudice against autistic people all about them and how 'bad they feel for me' etc.
Jordan Peterson describes himself as a liberal and says he’s often mistaken for right wing.
He’s an anti Marxist and correctly points out that Marxism has failed in every country that has tried it out and enslaved and killed more people than both world wars combined.
Of course marxists hate him as he is always calling them out
Marxism is the ideology of the firing squad and has nothing to do with liberal values despite sometimes using them as a vehicle for undermining and gain.
I like the way he uses metaphors and simple analogies sometimes based on the simplest old children’s tales to allow people to make sense of a complex world and make decisions to overcome personal insurmountable problems.
He has helped and guided many millions and is recognized the world over.
_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."
- George Bernie Shaw
Jordan Peterson obtained bachelor's degrees in political science and psychology from the University of Alberta and a PhD in clinical psychology from McGill University. After teaching and research at Harvard University, he returned to Canada in 1998 to join the faculty of psychology at the University of Toronto. In 1999, he published his first book, Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief, which became the basis for many of his subsequent lectures. The book combined information from psychology, mythology, religion, literature, philosophy, and neuroscience to analyze systems of belief and meaning.
In 2016, Peterson released a series of YouTube videos criticizing the Act to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code (Bill C-16), passed by the Parliament of Canada to introduce "gender identity and expression" as a prohibited grounds of discrimination. He argued that the bill would make the use of certain gender pronouns into compelled speech, and related this argument to a general critique of political correctness and identity politics.
He is eminently qualified to expound on the topic of Identity Politics, and is opposed to the concepts of compelled speech and political correctness.
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You can be qualified to speak on topics and still be wrong. Certainly, an appeal to authority does not actually mean the ideas the authority is stating are valid. Charles Murray and his ideas on race he articulated in his book The Bell Curve are very questionable, even though he is a well educated person. I am not sure that anyone here would support eugenics, an idea still being forwarded by very educated people.
He has helped and guided many millions and is recognized the world over.
Are there still Marxist in the world?
But the idea that Marxism has failed when it was never actually never implemented is hardly evidence. And the dictatorships put in place under the Soviets and Chinese were horrible. But neither were Marxist.
However, how many people has capitalism enslaved and killed? Just in the Atlantic slave trade between 10 to 12 million people were transported from Africa. Between 10% to 25% of those were estimated to have died in the crossing. Add to the losses in the wars fought over that trade and institution. This does not obviously include the entire colonial period that exploited people around the world.
Being popular is not an indication of anything except popularity. QAnon is a popular person/movement, but hardly credible. And conspiracy theories tend to be popular by their nature, which speaks more to human biases than validity of information.
You have established doubt against the credibility of a well-trained and intelligent expert without actually pointing out (and proving) where you think he is wrong.
Please try again.
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