‘Music’ film with nonverbal autistic lead, directed by Sia

Page 3 of 5 [ 72 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 23,864
Location: Long Island, New York

25 Nov 2020, 6:22 am

Off Topic
Rant:
Aspie With Attitude wrote:
autistic actor Dan Ankroyd .


It is questionable that Dan Ackroyd is on the spectrum.
Dan Aykroyd was NOT officially diagnoaed
Dispite the title of the Wrong Planet thread my is with Ackroyd is not self diagnosis. It was that in 2013 Ackroyd said he was diagnosed in the early 80s when hardly anybody knew about never mind was diagnosing Aspergers. Then in the interview in the linked 2015 thread he said he was self diagnosed. Which is it Dan?

I think his "Aspergers" was done for publicity, to market himself as interesting. If that in fact is what happened I find that more offensive then somebody trying to do good and unintentionally doing harm in part because Autism Speaks is the "go to" organization to find out about autism if that is what happened.

It drives me crazy that so often Dan Ackroyd's "Aspergers" is assumed to be fact when it is probably an urban legand


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person. - Sara Luterman


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 23,864
Location: Long Island, New York

25 Nov 2020, 6:31 am

Autism Rights Activists Ask Sia to Cancel ‘Music’ Movie

Quote:
On Friday, an online petition was launched to cancel the film’s premiere, a campaign spearheaded by Hannah Marshall, who identifies as an autistic woman from North Carolina. Over 500 people have signed the petition, as of Tuesday afternoon.

“As an autistic individual, I am asking that this film is canceled,” Marshall wrote on the fundraising page. “It is extremely offensive to myself and other autistic individuals. Sia has shown no remorse for her inaccurate and hurtful betrayal of the community.”

Supporters have sounded off in the petition’s comments, sharing their own experiences.


Since I do not agree with cancel culture I will not be signing the petition.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person. - Sara Luterman


carlos55
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 524
Location: uk

26 Nov 2020, 3:52 am

cyberdad wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
No doubt many Hollywood stars are a bit arrogant and full of themselves whether provoked or not.

Just trying to imagine forcing someone with severe autism to act out the part of someone with severe autism like a performing seal at the circus.

Someone severely disabled dealing with all sorts of issues having to remember what to do at what time, dealing with the stress of the cameras and the long hours of shooting film.

Reminds me of the abuses of the Victorian freak shows.

Of course someone higher functioning could have potentially done it but given the gulf between Aspergers and severe autism is it much different from a neurotypical?

Just shows how clueless and detached from reality these people are.


How did you feel about NT child actress and Clare Danes portraying a severely autistic Temple Grandin?


I’ve never got round to seeing that movie, although in principle I don’t have a problem with it.

You have added issues when portraying a living real person with regards to accuracy and defamation of character, that are not relevant in sis’s movie.

There was a relevance in the movie “a beautiful mind” where a real person was played with schizophrenia. That was a good movie and there was no issue with not playing a schizophrenic for the character.

I’m convinced the whole issue with sis’s movie is not because a non autistic was used, but because it was someone with severe autism that was played.

They want to hide severe autism from the public in their mission to remove autism as an official disability.

This movie was just a reminder to them that severe autism exists and they will never do this which is where the anger is really stemming from.

It’s not exactly Top Gun or Star Wars ( when it was good) no one cares about who gets a role for a movie hardly anyone knew was being made, who does?



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,519

26 Nov 2020, 3:49 pm

carlos55 wrote:
They want to hide severe autism from the public in their mission to remove autism as an official disability.

This movie was just a reminder to them that severe autism exists and they will never do this which is where the anger is really stemming from.


This has certainly been the case in the wider NT community for years. NT people really don't want to see severe disability whether it manifests as physical or mental. So it remains hidden. So (yes) that's who Sia is aiming the movie at (I agree).

What is perhaps more of a challenge is for the wider autism community to come to terms with how they perceive severe autism. In my view its probably no different to the wider NT community.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 23,864
Location: Long Island, New York

27 Nov 2020, 3:42 am

Here and online there has been plenty of criticism by Autistics of fictional autistic characters for being stereotyped as savants and glossing over the struggles they deal with as autistic people.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person. - Sara Luterman


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 23,864
Location: Long Island, New York

27 Nov 2020, 3:52 am

I May Be Autistic But I'm Not A Bad Actor, No Matter What Sia Says by Mickey Rowe

Quote:
Sia responded on Twitter to several of the professional autistic actresses who dared tweet to her that neither they nor any of the professional autistic actresses they knew had been auditioned for the role, writing to one of them, “Well maybe you’re just a bad actor.”

I know how this feels. I was the first autistic actor to play the autistic character Christopher Boone in the Tony Award-winning play The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time. This also made me one of the first autistic actors to play any autistic role ever professionally, as the roles in Rain Man, I Am Sam, Atypical, and all the way to The Good Doctor have been played by non-autistic actors.

When I was advocating for autistic actors to be auditioned for the role of Christopher, I was told many times that it would not be possible for an autistic actor like myself to play him. That it was a “big show” with “big words.” That it was a hard role. I was also told many times that the reason no autistic actors had been cast in the role was simply because there were no talented autistic actors. This is a lie. This is a myth. And it is damaging.

I am a better actor because of ― not in spite of ― my autism. Autistic people use scripts every day. We use scripting for daily situations with predictable outcomes, and stick to those scripts. My job as an autistic person is to make you believe that I am coming up with words on the spot, that this is spontaneous, the first time the conversation has ever happened in my life; this is also my job onstage as an actor.

Being in front of an audience of 500 or 5,000 people is very easy for me. The roles are incredibly clear, logical and laid-out. I am onstage; you are sitting in the seats watching me. I am playing a character, and that is what you expect, want and are paying for. The conversations onstage are scripted, and written much better than the ones in my real life. On the street is where conversations are scary — those roles aren’t clear.

Like the fictional character whom Sia attempted to bring to life in her movie, I was nonverbal. I know what it feels like to be autistic because it is my lived experience every day.

I was nonverbal throughout my earliest years. It is such a damaging misconception that nonverbal autistic people don’t speak because they simply are not smart enough. We live in an inherently ableist society that uses the word “dumb” interchangeably with the word “stupid.”

’m here to tell you that although I couldn’t speak, I was certainly not stupid, and I still understood everything everyone else was saying. This is the case for many nonverbal autistic people.

The medical term for this condition is aphasia. Simply put, it means you understand what is being said to you and you know what you want to say, but you are unable to say it. Somewhere between your brain and your mouth, the train goes off the rails. It’s not that mysterious and it’s not limited to autistic people. If anyone, autistic or not, sustains a concussion, they may show symptoms of aphasia.

Out of this determination I invented my own incredibly detailed sign language with which to communicate.

And to those of you reading this who are on the spectrum or different in any way, what I ask of all of you today is this: Know yourself well. Know yourself well enough to understand that your differences are your strengths. Be brave, jump in headfirst even when you aren’t sure, and be brave enough to advocate for yourself when you need something. Will you fail? Of course! Sometimes! But will it be worth it? Yes. If I hadn’t been brave and taken leaps I was afraid to take, I would have never gotten to be on stage in “The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time.” So please be brave, ask for what you need, and trust that sometimes if you take a leap, the net will appear for you. Go be incredible, and more than anything, be you!

There are so many actors on the spectrum. Actors like myself, Emi Tatsumaki, Coby Bird, Tash Baiguerra, Carsen Warner, Alex Plank, Kayla Marie Cromer, Andrew Duff, Alex Stewart, and so many more.


You don’t need to be autistic to play an autistic character
Quote:
It only took 60 seconds for Sia to become cancel culture’s next target.

To be fair, Sia doesn’t speak on behalf of the autistic population – but then again, neither does the neurodiversity movement, whose advocates espouse controversial positions based on identity politics.

The #ActuallyAutistic crowd tend to speak of ‘the autism community’ in the royal we, suggesting that by virtue of their disability, all people with autism share identical beliefs and desires.

Of course, this is not the case, and, ironically, self-proclaimed #ActuallyAutistic advocates show an alarming willingness to shame and bully anyone who objects to these tenets. This same treatment is now being extended to Sia, who, for all her strongly worded tweets since the clip was released, seems sincere in her desire to produce the movie thoughtfully and respectfully.

#ActuallyAutistic Twitter users who have found her guilty of everything from ‘profiting off ableist assumptions about autistic lives’ to ‘play[ing] upon stereotypes that get disabled people killed’.

It’s difficult to imagine that there is anything Sia can do to attenuate these charges

Moreover, the notion that autistic actors should automatically be considered for the roles of disabled characters misses the point. It is one thing to suggest that casting actors with disabilities might produce more compelling performances, but it is quite another to foist these requirements upon every artist. In calling for Music’s cancellation, neurodiversity advocates cross the boundary from exercising their own liberty to infringing on that of others, including Sia’s autistic collaborators.

Perhaps this is my internalised ableism speaking, but as an also actually autistic person, I see no correlation between my wellbeing and an Australian pop star’s casting choice. I’ll admit that when I watched the trailer, I initially worried that Ziegler’s performance drifted uncomfortably close to caricature. Then I wondered if her glazed eyes and vacant smile simply reflected the character’s flattened affect and neuromotor impairments. The vivid colours and pulsing soundtrack seemed out of place, at least until I reminded myself that for all the autistics who wince at loud noises, there are plenty who crave them.

A minute of footage isn’t enough to tell if the film will fall back on tired tropes or offer a more complex and thoughtful take on autism. But rather than giving it a chance, the Twittermob has seized on every incriminating detail to blow the controversy wildly out of proportion. Had the criticisms that began this purity spiral been framed in less hyperbolic terms, they could have prompted valuable discussion about Music’s take on autism. Instead, we’re left with an overabundance of outrage that threatens to sap the enjoyment out of what may well be an excellent movie.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person. - Sara Luterman


Dvdz
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 6 Oct 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 71

27 Nov 2020, 8:51 am

Quote:
Sia responded on Twitter to several of the professional autistic actresses who dared tweet to her that neither they nor any of the professional autistic actresses they knew had been auditioned for the role, writing to one of them, “Well maybe you’re just a bad actor.”


I don't know how many autistic actresses "dared tweet" at Sia but the one that Sia responded to, Helen Zbihlyj, is 42 according to https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Helen_Zbihlyj. Maybe she could have acted on short notice but the role was for a teenage girl and it involved a lot of dancing.

There probably aren't many autistic actresses who look like or are teenagers and who can also dance. Sia might have found the only one. Unfortunately that didn't work out.

This situation is getting bloody ridiculous. A 42-year-old (around 38 at the time), who probably can't dance, who falsely accused Sia of making zero effort, who asked why she wasn't called in to audition for a role for a teenage girl, is somehow the victim in all this.



carlos55
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 524
Location: uk

27 Nov 2020, 9:25 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I May Be Autistic But I'm Not A Bad Actor, No Matter What Sia Says by Mickey Rowe
Quote:
Sia responded on Twitter to several of the professional autistic actresses who dared tweet to her that neither they nor any of the professional autistic actresses they knew had been auditioned for the role, writing to one of them, “Well maybe you’re just a bad actor.”

I know how this feels. I was the first autistic actor to play the autistic character Christopher Boone in the Tony Award-winning play The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time. This also made me one of the first autistic actors to play any autistic role ever professionally, as the roles in Rain Man, I Am Sam, Atypical, and all the way to The Good Doctor have been played by non-autistic actors.

When I was advocating for autistic actors to be auditioned for the role of Christopher, I was told many times that it would not be possible for an autistic actor like myself to play him. That it was a “big show” with “big words.” That it was a hard role. I was also told many times that the reason no autistic actors had been cast in the role was simply because there were no talented autistic actors. This is a lie. This is a myth. And it is damaging.

I am a better actor because of ― not in spite of ― my autism. Autistic people use scripts every day. We use scripting for daily situations with predictable outcomes, and stick to those scripts. My job as an autistic person is to make you believe that I am coming up with words on the spot, that this is spontaneous, the first time the conversation has ever happened in my life; this is also my job onstage as an actor.

Being in front of an audience of 500 or 5,000 people is very easy for me. The roles are incredibly clear, logical and laid-out. I am onstage; you are sitting in the seats watching me. I am playing a character, and that is what you expect, want and are paying for. The conversations onstage are scripted, and written much better than the ones in my real life. On the street is where conversations are scary — those roles aren’t clear.

Like the fictional character whom Sia attempted to bring to life in her movie, I was nonverbal. I know what it feels like to be autistic because it is my lived experience every day.

I was nonverbal throughout my earliest years. It is such a damaging misconception that nonverbal autistic people don’t speak because they simply are not smart enough. We live in an inherently ableist society that uses the word “dumb” interchangeably with the word “stupid.”

’m here to tell you that although I couldn’t speak, I was certainly not stupid, and I still understood everything everyone else was saying. This is the case for many nonverbal autistic people.

The medical term for this condition is aphasia. Simply put, it means you understand what is being said to you and you know what you want to say, but you are unable to say it. Somewhere between your brain and your mouth, the train goes off the rails. It’s not that mysterious and it’s not limited to autistic people. If anyone, autistic or not, sustains a concussion, they may show symptoms of aphasia.

Out of this determination I invented my own incredibly detailed sign language with which to communicate.

And to those of you reading this who are on the spectrum or different in any way, what I ask of all of you today is this: Know yourself well. Know yourself well enough to understand that your differences are your strengths. Be brave, jump in headfirst even when you aren’t sure, and be brave enough to advocate for yourself when you need something. Will you fail? Of course! Sometimes! But will it be worth it? Yes. If I hadn’t been brave and taken leaps I was afraid to take, I would have never gotten to be on stage in “The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time.” So please be brave, ask for what you need, and trust that sometimes if you take a leap, the net will appear for you. Go be incredible, and more than anything, be you!

There are so many actors on the spectrum. Actors like myself, Emi Tatsumaki, Coby Bird, Tash Baiguerra, Carsen Warner, Alex Plank, Kayla Marie Cromer, Andrew Duff, Alex Stewart, and so many more.


You don’t need to be autistic to play an autistic character
Quote:
It only took 60 seconds for Sia to become cancel culture’s next target.

To be fair, Sia doesn’t speak on behalf of the autistic population – but then again, neither does the neurodiversity movement, whose advocates espouse controversial positions based on identity politics.

The #ActuallyAutistic crowd tend to speak of ‘the autism community’ in the royal we, suggesting that by virtue of their disability, all people with autism share identical beliefs and desires.

Of course, this is not the case, and, ironically, self-proclaimed #ActuallyAutistic advocates show an alarming willingness to shame and bully anyone who objects to these tenets. This same treatment is now being extended to Sia, who, for all her strongly worded tweets since the clip was released, seems sincere in her desire to produce the movie thoughtfully and respectfully.

#ActuallyAutistic Twitter users who have found her guilty of everything from ‘profiting off ableist assumptions about autistic lives’ to ‘play[ing] upon stereotypes that get disabled people killed’.

It’s difficult to imagine that there is anything Sia can do to attenuate these charges

Moreover, the notion that autistic actors should automatically be considered for the roles of disabled characters misses the point. It is one thing to suggest that casting actors with disabilities might produce more compelling performances, but it is quite another to foist these requirements upon every artist. In calling for Music’s cancellation, neurodiversity advocates cross the boundary from exercising their own liberty to infringing on that of others, including Sia’s autistic collaborators.

Perhaps this is my internalised ableism speaking, but as an also actually autistic person, I see no correlation between my wellbeing and an Australian pop star’s casting choice. I’ll admit that when I watched the trailer, I initially worried that Ziegler’s performance drifted uncomfortably close to caricature. Then I wondered if her glazed eyes and vacant smile simply reflected the character’s flattened affect and neuromotor impairments. The vivid colours and pulsing soundtrack seemed out of place, at least until I reminded myself that for all the autistics who wince at loud noises, there are plenty who crave them.

A minute of footage isn’t enough to tell if the film will fall back on tired tropes or offer a more complex and thoughtful take on autism. But rather than giving it a chance, the Twittermob has seized on every incriminating detail to blow the controversy wildly out of proportion. Had the criticisms that began this purity spiral been framed in less hyperbolic terms, they could have prompted valuable discussion about Music’s take on autism. Instead, we’re left with an overabundance of outrage that threatens to sap the enjoyment out of what may well be an excellent movie.



Thanks for the quoted article AsPartOfMe it’s good to see other autistic opinions that differ.

I hate musicals but might just watch this after all this fuss. Then again it will probably just remind me of my now deceased cousin who had severe autism so probably won’t.

There was nothing voiced from advocates about the movie “the accountant” where Ben aflick stared as a hf autistic that was only made fairly recently.

Again more evidence that this is about showing severe autism not about autistic actors/ actresses.



carlos55
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 524
Location: uk

27 Nov 2020, 10:13 am

Another movie released this year 2020 with a NT actor playing an autistic character “The nightclerk”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_Clerk

Not a peep out of advocates on that one.

Both good movies by the way :

The accountant and the night clerk. Worth watching.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,519

27 Nov 2020, 10:36 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Here and online there has been plenty of criticism by Autistics of fictional autistic characters for being stereotyped as savants and glossing over the struggles they deal with as autistic people.


NTs like films which show growth/overcoming obstacles so the idea of the underdog with so many flaws/challenges overcoming their problems to become some type of hero is a common template for movies. So I doubt that's ever going to change.

I thought the issue with Sia's film was the casting rather than the story? the idea an NT could play a severely autistic person. This was something I found a little uncomfortable with the casting of Freddie Highmore (an NT actor) as the autistic doctor in the "Good doctor". That particular role should have been played by somebody with autism.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 23,864
Location: Long Island, New York

28 Nov 2020, 5:50 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Here and online there has been plenty of criticism by Autistics of fictional autistic characters for being stereotyped as savants and glossing over the struggles they deal with as autistic people.


NTs like films which show growth/overcoming obstacles so the idea of the underdog with so many flaws/challenges overcoming their problems to become some type of hero is a common template for movies. So I doubt that's ever going to change.

I thought the issue with Sia's film was the casting rather than the story? the idea an NT could play a severely autistic person. This was something I found a little uncomfortable with the casting of Freddie Highmore (an NT actor) as the autistic doctor in the "Good doctor". That particular role should have been played by somebody with autism.


I was reacting to Carlos's claim that the negative reaction demonstrates the ND movement's ableism because of lack of outrage to NT actors playing high functioning autistics.

Some of the criticism has been that the film is inspiration porn
An autistic actress deconstructs Sia’s 'Music' mess
Quote:
my anger at Sia is not simply because she called Maddie Ziegler and not me. My anger stems from the fact that Sia knowingly and deliberately packaged an offensive, reductive, and infantilizing appropriation of our neurology as self-aggrandizing inspiration porn for consumption by non-autistics.


An actually autistic person responds to Sia’s controversial new film Music
Quote:
While more autism representation is needed to facilitate acceptance and understanding, inauthentic and inaccurate representation for the abled gaze is harmful. It perpetuates reductive, othering stereotypes, exploiting autistic people for feel-good “inspiration porn” or comedic value.


Sia’s Music angers Autistic campaigners over ‘insulting’ choice of non-disabled actor
Quote:
As disabled people, we are not here for you to take pity on or to make you feel better. We are not inspiration porn.


But you are right, while "inspiration porn" is a new term it has been a popular movie theme for a long time. The "Wizard of Oz" is a humongous popular early example.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person. - Sara Luterman


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,519

28 Nov 2020, 7:56 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
But you are right, while "inspiration porn" is a new term it has been a popular movie theme for a long time. The "Wizard of Oz" is a humongous popular early example.


Yes I think organised autism groups/associations need to pick their battles when it comes to representation. Objections to casting NT actors is fine when its a surgeon working in a hospital (e.g. "Good doctor") but producers need to have autistic actors to pick from (I think there are limited options). I am also wondering (hypothetically) if you had a young Daryl Hannah whether she would be representative of severely autistic people? I seriously wonder if a high functioning person could relate better to a severely autistic person than to an NT actor who has spent time learning from parents of severely autistic children?

This leads back to the elephant in the room that groups like "Autism speaks" are a hate-group because they seek a cure? I have viewed their websites and seen what they have said and I honestly don't see what the fuss is about?
I avoid parent groups because they are cliquey and parents tend to be self-absorbed over their own problems. SO likewise I have no vested interest in how they choose to represent autism to the NT public. I fight my own battles for my daughter.

High functioning folk need to make their voices heard to the NT public. They don't need to be allies with "Autism Speaks" but I see absolutely no point in making enemies with them.



Dvdz
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 6 Oct 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 71

28 Nov 2020, 9:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Yes I think organised autism groups/associations need to pick their battles when it comes to representation. Objections to casting NT actors is fine when its a surgeon working in a hospital (e.g. "Good doctor") but producers need to have autistic actors to pick from (I think there are limited options). I am also wondering (hypothetically) if you had a young Daryl Hannah whether she would be representative of severely autistic people? I seriously wonder if a high functioning person could relate better to a severely autistic person than to an NT actor who has spent time learning from parents of severely autistic children?


I have a problem with the concept of representation itself. How would it work in the real world?

If you want to represent a certain group of people, I would assume that you would need to screen out people who are not in that group. How would this work with autism?

Are you going to go with what people say they are? What's to stop people from lying about it to get a job then?

Are you going to have a panel of judges to only hire people that seem autistic? Of course, this would be susceptible to the judges putting someone in the wrong category (e.g hiring someone schizophrenic instead of autistic, or not hiring the autistic because they seemed too normal).

Are you going to request medical records to prove someone has an autism diagnosis? Not only does this exclude autistics who haven't gotten a diagnosis yet, it might even be illegal in some jurisdictions.

This is even more ridiculous when you try to apply representation to something like race or sexuality, like the Oscars want to do.

I can't even think of how representation would work in the real world. What are people really asking for when they ask for representation?



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,519

29 Nov 2020, 1:23 am

Yeah I tend to think that maybe the representation issue (whichever group it applies to) becomes irrelevant if movie producers don't have a pool of available talent to choose from anyway.

How do you force Sia to find an autistic actor when there isn't necessarily a lot of choices.



Dvdz
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 6 Oct 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 71

29 Nov 2020, 4:04 am

cyberdad wrote:
How do you force Sia to find an autistic actor when there isn't necessarily a lot of choices.


Yea, I did some quick math:

Total Population in USA at Nov 30 2016: 323,901,968
(http://www.census.gov/popclock)

% of Population Female Aged 12-30 for 2016: 12.59%
(https://www.census.gov/popclock/data_tables.php?component=pyramid)

Total Females Aged 12-30: 323,901,968 * 0.1259 = 40,779,258

(https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=detailed%20occupation&tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B24116&hidePreview=false)
Total Female Workforce (2018 5-year estimate): 72,470,194
Total Female Actors (2018 5-year estimate): 19,245
Total Female Dancers & Choreographers (2018 5-year estimate): 15,389

% Female Actors: 19,245 / 72,470,194 = 0.02656%
% Female Dancers & Choreographers: 15,389 / 72,470,194 = 0.02123%

Autism Prevalence in Girls (2016 ADDM): 0.69%
(https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data/index.html)

Estimated Female ASD 12-30: 40,779,258 * 0.0069 = 281,377

% of ASD who has worked: 47.70%
(https://nlts2.sri.com/data_tables/tables/14/np5T1b_A4bfrm.html)

Estimate of Female ASD 12-30 Workers: 281,377 * 0.477 = 134,217
Estimated Female ASD 12-30 Actors: 134,217 * 0.0002656 = 36
Estimated Female ASD 12-30 Dancers + Choreographers: 134,217 * 0.0002123 = 29
Female ASD 12-30 actors + dancers assuming 25% can do both: (36 * 0.25) + (29 * 0.25) = 16
Female ASD 12-30 actors + dancers assuming 10% can do both: (36 * 0.1) + (29 * 0.1) = 6

And this is probably an overestimate, as not everyone above 25 will be able to play a teenager and the percentage of people below 16 who are working is going to be lower. The oldest actress I know who played a teenager is Marie Avgeropoulos, who played Octavia, a 17-year-old, on The 100 when she was around 27-28.

But you've got people on twitter thinking that the number of available autistic actresses who can dance and look like teenagers number in the thousands (https://twitter.com/lore_poe/status/1332930398582607872), which is pretty unlikely given that there are only 19,245 actresses in the entire United States.

Given this, the fact that Sia or maybe the casting director managed to find one and tried to work with her is a remarkable feat.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 23,864
Location: Long Island, New York

29 Nov 2020, 4:48 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
But you are right, while "inspiration porn" is a new term it has been a popular movie theme for a long time. The "Wizard of Oz" is a humongous popular early example.


Yes I think organised autism groups/associations need to pick their battles when it comes to representation. Objections to casting NT actors is fine when its a surgeon working in a hospital (e.g. "Good doctor") but producers need to have autistic actors to pick from (I think there are limited options). I am also wondering (hypothetically) if you had a young Daryl Hannah whether she would be representative of severely autistic people? I seriously wonder if a high functioning person could relate better to a severely autistic person than to an NT actor who has spent time learning from parents of severely autistic children?

This leads back to the elephant in the room that groups like "Autism speaks" are a hate-group because they seek a cure? I have viewed their websites and seen what they have said and I honestly don't see what the fuss is about?
I avoid parent groups because they are cliquey and parents tend to be self-absorbed over their own problems. SO likewise I have no vested interest in how they choose to represent autism to the NT public. I fight my own battles for my daughter.

High functioning folk need to make their voices heard to the NT public. They don't need to be allies with "Autism Speaks" but I see absolutely no point in making enemies with them.


What you are view on Autism Speaks websites is quite different from what you would have seen 10+years ago. The whole leadership has changed, they dropped cure from their mission statement, Autistic people have been on their board of directors and one still is. Their Wikipedia article goes through many of the controversies, there are numerous threads about them on WP.

They were not a hate group like the KKK. They did not hate autistics they thought this horrible disease had seized their child. The potential end result of what they wanted is the same if autism is cured no autistic people. With their money and influence, there were legitimate reasons to view them as an existential threat.

The problem with the ND movement is they still view Autism Speaks as the way they were. I still read all the time about how they have no autistic board members and how they are seeking a cure. Do not get me wrong I still have serious issues with things Autism Speaks does, but propagating falsehoods hurts credibility.

The bottom line is not the casting it is how well does 'Music' represent nonverbal autism more specifically how will the young female audience the movie is meant for view autism after seeing the movie.

Speaking of older people trying to be young Sia is 44 years old but her reaction tweets read like a teen rant. I assume she has to tweet like that to relate to her audience. If you want to trigger a lot of Autistics do it the way Sia did it.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person. - Sara Luterman