How and Why Neurotypicals Misunderstand and Mistreat Us

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LordMikey
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05 Nov 2021, 3:00 pm

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The world punishes autistic people for displaying their autistic traits, leading to masking even without interventions. Being rejected, marginalized, and receiving the constant message that everything that is intrinsic to them is wrong or unacceptable is a continuous source of trauma: society rarely produces non-traumatized autistics (emphasis added).


I am a 34 year old and have severe classic autism (among other psychiatric and physical issues). I have been so traumatized by society that I no longer really notice that I am alone (with my dog) most of the time; being alone is much, much easier than dealing with society. Can we just leave each other alone? I don't understand why NT's keep trying to cure me; can't they see that I am happier alone and with people like me? I'm sometimes forced to tell people that I like being autistic.



carlos55
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05 Nov 2021, 3:21 pm

Cunfuzed wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
But basically I was just saying interpreting behavior in others is hardwired and ignoring it can have serious consequences so demanding behavior is ignored or certain members of society get a free pass for odd behavior is unrealistic.

With that logic, then prejudice is hardwired, which is absurd itself.
Dangerous or not dangerous, it is still prejudice.

Again, you underestimate humans innate ability.
And overestimate things humans acquire.
If someone cannot divide that, then this person couldn't understand my point.



If science is going to make a new research about double empathy...
Since alexithymia is already out there and as a variable, I wonder when others would keep up with dyssemia.

Dyssemia is not limited but very common in autism. It is the very trait that affects nonverbal language expressions and interpretations. This trait is also not exclusive to autism.


However in double empathy... It goes beyond just body language expressions, but the entirety of theory of mind.

One cannot simply know if a person is bombarded with overload and dealing with overwhelm when the person's reaction looked too happy to be coping. :lol:
Or passing as if nothing is happening in general.
At worst a person already shuts down, in overwhelm stimming and wanting to go home -- and people judge this person as "a lazy and slow worthless dumbass spazzing in public".

:roll: Applying this in criminal law and intent is a funny hype.
Limiting it to criminal law and sense of danger discrimination meant someone fell for the hype.
I don't think it would just get there until mundane daily living issues are addressed.


Not familiar with the term alexithymia, but familiar with the words "you wanna fight? Quit looking at me" when walking through a rough neighborhood coming from people who are not autistic, but surely dislike eye contact enough to kill you over making it accidentally because they assume eye contact is a bad thing no matter what.


Yes this guy goes into that:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOFd_7EV0_w


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CarlM
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06 Nov 2021, 8:48 pm

I think there is still a need to educate people about ASD. We have come a long way from being subject to exorcisms, to being being institutionalized, to being seen having a disability with a wide range of abilities and support needs. I think real portrayals of ASD across the spectrum in media can go along way.

People have to learn not to dismiss us. And in a related issue, they have to learn not to put excessive trust in those with superior persuasive abilities. Elisabeth Holmes being an current example of where that can lead.


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06 Nov 2021, 8:56 pm

CarlM wrote:
People have to learn not to dismiss us. And in a related issue, they have to learn not to put excessive trust in those with superior persuasive abilities. Elisabeth Holmes being an current example of where that can lead.


NTs don't associate autism with Musk, Gates, Holmes or other high profile people. They associate autism with special needs kids and/or awkward kids at school or Rainman.

It's mainly the autism community who get obsessed with famous people (like Anthony Hopkins) having autism.



cyberdad
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06 Nov 2021, 8:56 pm

LordMikey wrote:
I don't understand why NT's keep trying to cure me; can't they see that I am happier alone and with people like me? I'm sometimes forced to tell people that I like being autistic.


Who is "they"?



Cunfuzed
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19 Nov 2021, 9:41 pm

CarlM wrote:
I think there is still a need to educate people about ASD. We have come a long way from being subject to exorcisms, to being being institutionalized, to being seen having a disability with a wide range of abilities and support needs. I think real portrayals of ASD across the spectrum in media can go along way.

People have to learn not to dismiss us. And in a related issue, they have to learn not to put excessive trust in those with superior persuasive abilities. Elisabeth Holmes being an current example of where that can lead.


Part of what seems to be the problem is misinformation in the medical field about the problem. Look at all the doctors dismissing the leaky gut idea, but do you remember the line from Jarhead where that guy asked the sergeant "So, I take the pill then a year later my as*hole turns inside out and starts talking to me! These pills ain't worth a s**t!" That was someone making a statement that either the chem warfare they were about to be exposed to or the antidote was going to lead into a leaky gut.



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19 Nov 2021, 9:48 pm

At the risk of sounding uncaring, individual people need to take responsibility for their own actions and not blame NTs for everything.

Adam Lanza, Dylan Roof or Anders Breveik made the decision to commit mass murder due to their long conditioning that fed their distorted beliefs.

Trying to vicariously compare yourself to outliers is neither accurate or helpful, Most NTs do misunderstand autism (no argument there) but if they mistreat autistic people it has nothing to do with mass murderers who may (or may not?) have had autism.



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21 Nov 2021, 12:32 am

Honestly, my filter is zero at baseline, unless I know I need to activate it for some reason, like for employment purposes. Navigating what I let through my filter is a bit like juggling for me. Many, many balls.

Autistic people who don't like what a person has to say, can be just as cruel as NT's. I've been thrown out of loads of Autistic groups for having different opinions and not being a group-think type of person.

NT's: "We think this"!

Autistic folk: "We're not like them at all but we think THIS".

Me: Nah, f**k all of you. :lol:


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21 Nov 2021, 12:46 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
Honestly, my filter is zero at baseline, unless I know I need to activate it for some reason, like for employment purposes. Navigating what I let through my filter is a bit like juggling for me. Many, many balls.

Autistic people who don't like what a person has to say, can be just as cruel as NT's. I've been thrown out of loads of Autistic groups for having different opinions and not being a group-think type of person.

NT's: "We think this"!

Autistic folk: "We're not like them at all but we think THIS".

Me: Nah, f**k all of you. :lol:


Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I totally empathise with autistic people who put up with NT ignorance and mistreatment (that always sucks, especially if the perps are your own family). But its important for survival to try your best to fit-in. Don't antagonise, it doesn't help.



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21 Nov 2021, 1:17 am

Indeed.

Autistic people are a minority and as such, are genuinely oppressed.

But they are human, with human flaws.


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cyberdad
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21 Nov 2021, 1:26 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
But they are human, with human flaws.


And that is the bottom line. The gap isn't as great as some people make out.



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21 Nov 2021, 1:37 am

Yep.


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21 Nov 2021, 8:19 am

People said I was weak, lazy and fussy. I’m not – but I am autistic
Sara Gibbs is a comedy writer and author of Drama Queen: One Autistic Woman and a Life of Unhelpful Labels

Quote:
The news of Melanie Sykes and Christine McGuinness’s late autism diagnoses may have come as a surprise to many. After all, they are glamorous career women. They look nothing like the stereotype of autism we as a culture are used to. I, however, was not shocked, knowing only too well that you can’t tell anything about someone’s private reality from their public image.

As I read their stories, I couldn’t help but imagine what they might be feeling. Were they elated? Confused? Excited? Terrified? Angry? Relieved? All of the above?

The very fact that I felt such empathy defies stereotypes that likely contributed to Melanie and Christine missing out on diagnosis. That is because I too am autistic.

When I was diagnosed as autistic at 30, my reaction was anything but straightforward. My entire life I had struggled with myriad things that most people found easy, from sensory input to socialising.

Without an explanation, I was inundated with unpleasant labels. People saw me as weak, pathetic, sensitive, lazy, spoiled, fussy, inappropriate, weird and dramatic. I believed them.

I learned to mask my challenges to avoid judgment. I approached every new job, friendship or relationship with optimism – this fresh start would be different, and this time I would try harder and be able to blend in. This masking, extremely common among undiagnosed autistic people, worked for short periods of time but inevitably the pressure of hiding who I really was would become too much. There would be a catastrophe – usually a meltdown (an autistic reaction to overwhelm, which looks like a temper tantrum but is totally involuntary) – and I would be “found out”, fleeing the situation and burning bridges behind me.

When my cousin Dominique suggested, seemingly out of the blue, that I might be autistic, I laughed it off. My understanding of autism at the time was, well, Rain Man. How could anyone think that I, a big bundle of emotions and empathy, could be autistic? Autistic people were robotic and unfeeling, weren’t they?

I am someone who needs to physically count on their fingers to add two small numbers together – a far cry from the savant maths genius counting cards in Las Vegas. I am highly creative, not at all technical. That, and I bloody hate trains.

I was also a little wounded. I had been working so hard to cover up my social difficulties and here was somebody suggesting I was “on the spectrum” – a term I had only ever heard used scathingly to mock people perceived as socially inept. Was it really that obvious? Luckily for me, Dominique gently persisted in explaining that what I was describing was Movie Autism – a wildly overdiagnosed condition written and acted by non-autistic people that bears only a fleeting resemblance to the real thing. Moreover, owing to misogynistic assumptions about unusual behaviours and the different societal expectations on girls and women, our autistic traits can present differently.

The next day, scrolling through the links Dominique had sent me, everything fell into place. Reading clinical descriptions of autistic girls and women, I wondered if someone had been following me around with a notepad.

After my official diagnosis, I went through a whirlwind of emotions. Mostly I felt relief at finally having an answer, but I found it hard to process. My previous idea of myself had been obliterated.

It breaks my heart that there is still so much stigma associated with being autistic – society couldn’t have us more wrong. While being autistic isn’t always easy (I’m going to need to lie down in a dark room for the rest of the day after writing this), I don’t see being autistic in terms of deficits. We are not bad or broken.

High-profile late diagnoses like Melanie and Christine are vital in educating people about the vastly misunderstood reality of being autistic. Sharing their stories is a gift to the community and will make life easier for all of us.

I feel so much gratitude towards them and I hope they know their autistic family welcomes them with open arms.

bolding=mine


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21 Nov 2021, 8:44 am

carlos55 wrote:
It’s complicated since it’s like asking people to not trust their basic assumptions about body language and behavior which is sometimes correct.

So like asking the woman to ignore a man’s behavior who’s acting creepy around her and trust he won’t rape her.

Women are often raped by men they trust or know in some capacity. Likewise, they ostracize men who have no ill intent. Can't de-program them, but the truth is that the radar is off. Natural selection though; nature would rather a "safe" NT rape a woman than an Aspie with good intentions come anywhere near her.

carlos55 wrote:
Trust the man who talking to a child he’s not a peadophille

I personally avoid minors, but I think this is more societal than biological in this modern era.

carlos55 wrote:
Trust the teen in school who’s acting strange he’s not the next mass shooter.

If you're an Aspie, you were definitely "acting strange" in school. How many of us are bona fide mass shooters?

carlos55 wrote:
The problem is autistic people have all committed these crimes so it’s a bit of a double bluff.

Just because someone is autistic and behaving differently doesn’t mean their behavior is benevolent.

Or malevolent. But a benevolent Aspies is much more likely to go on the chopping block than a malevolent-but-otherwise-normal-acting NT.



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21 Nov 2021, 4:07 pm

LordMikey wrote:
Quote:
The world punishes autistic people for displaying their autistic traits, leading to masking even without interventions. Being rejected, marginalized, and receiving the constant message that everything that is intrinsic to them is wrong or unacceptable is a continuous source of trauma: society rarely produces non-traumatized autistics (emphasis added).


I am a 34 year old and have severe classic autism (among other psychiatric and physical issues). I have been so traumatized by society that I no longer really notice that I am alone (with my dog) most of the time; being alone is much, much easier than dealing with society. Can we just leave each other alone? I don't understand why NT's keep trying to cure me; can't they see that I am happier alone and with people like me? I'm sometimes forced to tell people that I like being autistic.

In fact, in some ways, societies for most part, in at least several centuries now, makes subclinically traumatized humans in general.

And these humans are told to get married and have children.
These parents will likely pass these traumas to their children, albeit unintentionally, because it's all they "know", it's what they grew up with with poorly defined contrast of what is healthy and what isn't.

So far, only a few realizes this cycle. But soon I'm sure everyone will keep up.

The difference between an NT from an ND could range from the latter having more energy and resources for coping skills to internal regulation and filters -- all in the name of some gradually growing societal measuring stick.

I know the side effects of "resilience", "productivity" and "adaptation" rather too well to not dismiss that something is wrong with most NTs, and only that it's more visible in NDs or NTs that are deemed "weak".


And regardless of neurology, most of the worldly "success" and prosperity lies in a person's environment.

Those who overcame their childhood issues and complexes?
They're either never had, only coped and covered up in order to function.
Or entirely rare altogether because of how the overall emotional intelligence works inside and out, along with it's clashing values and priority or whatever crap perpetuated in "real life".


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21 Nov 2021, 5:03 pm

Edna3362 wrote:
LordMikey wrote:
Quote:
The world punishes autistic people for displaying their autistic traits, leading to masking even without interventions. Being rejected, marginalized, and receiving the constant message that everything that is intrinsic to them is wrong or unacceptable is a continuous source of trauma: society rarely produces non-traumatized autistics (emphasis added).


I am a 34 year old and have severe classic autism (among other psychiatric and physical issues). I have been so traumatized by society that I no longer really notice that I am alone (with my dog) most of the time; being alone is much, much easier than dealing with society. Can we just leave each other alone? I don't understand why NT's keep trying to cure me; can't they see that I am happier alone and with people like me? I'm sometimes forced to tell people that I like being autistic.

In fact, in some ways, societies for most part, in at least several centuries now, makes subclinically traumatized humans in general.

And these humans are told to get married and have children.
These parents will likely pass these traumas to their children, albeit unintentionally, because it's all they "know", it's what they grew up with with poorly defined contrast of what is healthy and what isn't.

So far, only a few realizes this cycle. But soon I'm sure everyone will keep up.

The difference between an NT from an ND could range from the latter having more energy and resources for coping skills to internal regulation and filters -- all in the name of some gradually growing societal measuring stick.

I know the side effects of "resilience", "productivity" and "adaptation" rather too well to not dismiss that something is wrong with most NTs, and only that it's more visible in NDs or NTs that are deemed "weak".


And regardless of neurology, most of the worldly "success" and prosperity lies in a person's environment.

Those who overcame their childhood issues and complexes?
They're either never had, only coped and covered up in order to function.
Or entirely rare altogether because of how the overall emotional intelligence works inside and out, along with it's clashing values and priority or whatever crap perpetuated in "real life".


Not sure who`s trying to cure a 34 year old with autism, if someone is giving you drugs against your consent you should report them to the police.

Most efforts at intervention are for young children, autistic people tend to become invisible after 18, usually dumped on disability welfare and left to rot in their parental home, until the inevitable time comes when the state has to take over.

I`m of course referring to the 90% of autistics that don’t appear on TV or work for as an app programer.

So usually the problem with autism in adulthood isn’t NTs working day & night to change us, its they don’t do anything at all, even the neurodiversity movement is a way to shut us up, a bit like putting a kid in front of a screen -

Your symptoms are something to celebrate!, this celebrity is showing what autism looks like, doesn’t look so bad, they don’t look like they are disabled or need much help, You must be great at maths, Why don’t you work for google blah blah blah


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