Incels 30 times more likely to be autistic, study finds

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ChiefEspatier
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26 Feb 2024, 3:35 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ChiefEspatier wrote:
credible incel


Sounds like you're hoping to pull off the No True Scotsman fallacy in regards to the incels we have encountered.


It's not, I was specific to use the word "credible" not "true"

Credible as in they understand the arguments of their movement.

Looking for a credible witness in a legal case doesn't mean you argue there are no true witnesses. It means you have to access the witness to determine if they could be a valid witness, you can't be credible if you were drunk, not in the room etc.



funeralxempire
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26 Feb 2024, 3:37 pm

So what makes you the arbiter of credibility among incels?


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26 Feb 2024, 3:53 pm

ChiefEspatier wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Without appropriate sources, one is left with no choice but to dismiss many of your claims.


EDIT: You're illustrating exactly what I'm talking about. You have no choice but to "dismiss claims outright" The correct answer is if you're not providing solutions that you need to do some research of your own.



Have you even attempted to google the topic?

The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim.

Quote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Everyone is different.


Except they're not really, this is an emotional sentiment. Science proves pretty conclusively that sexual attraction isn't remotely some deep higher abstraction that can't be understood.

Most people have a short list of traits they are attracted to. To deny this is to deny sexual attraction even exists in the first place.

Part of the incel frustration is exactly this refusal to acknowledge that sexual attraction in gross aggregate isn't complex at all.

Science demonstrates that people are different and aren’t ALL attracted to the same things. I’m not attracted to the traits you enumerated but, instead, to innate character qualities. The world is a big place, and there are a lot of people in it. Diversity is to be expected.

Quote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Lots of women are unhappily alone too. Loneliness isn’t solely a male, autistic thing.


Right but the obstacles for women are completely different.

Past 40 it's brutal for women.

Under 30 the issue is women simply don't find most men attractive.

I'm not sugguesting women should be forced to marry incels they aren't attracted to. They simply need to admit they aren't attracted to them, and they aren't unique snowflakes some men are just not attractive to the majority of women.

You appear to be rather clueless about the obstacles women face. It’s much more complex than how you are depicting it. People of any gender can be single for many different reasons and, sometimes, for the same reasons.


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ChiefEspatier
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26 Feb 2024, 4:56 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Without appropriate sources, one is left with no choice but to dismiss many of your claims.


EDIT: You're illustrating exactly what I'm talking about. You have no choice but to "dismiss claims outright" The correct answer is if you're not providing solutions that you need to do some research of your own.



Have you even attempted to google the topic? [/quote]


TwilightPrincess wrote:
The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim.


That is for situations where there's an extraordinary claim. There's no extraordinary claim being made. It's mainstream science and has been for decades.

I don't need to present evidence global warming is a thing.

It's not extraordinary, it's a mainstream claim.

Someone not knowing what a carbon atom is, isn't proof global warming isn't happening.


TwilightPrincess wrote:
Everyone is different.

Science demonstrates that people are different and aren’t ALL attracted to the same things. I’m not attracted to the traits you enumerated but, instead, to innate character qualities.


Unless actual science has determined what you're claiming isn't actually at all true. Just because you can't describe your attraction to potential partners doesn't mean someone else can't and hasn't.

This is a driving point of resentment. You're refusing to acknowledge that your sexual attraction can be defined.




TwilightPrincess wrote:
The world is a big place, and there are a lot of people in it. Diversity is to be expected.
Except most people aren't actually that diverse. That's sort of the point in every data set there are outliers.

The wonders of math is you assume statistical variation, saying the earth is warming doesn't mean virtually every day is hotter than the next. Noting that it is a cold day isn't a gotcha against global warming.

It's an aggregate of data that suggests the planet is warming.



TwilightPrincess wrote:

You appear to be rather clueless about the obstacles women face. It’s much more complex than how you are depicting it.

People of any gender can be single for many different reasons and, sometimes, for the same reasons.
[/quote]

A) "can be single" being an incel doesn't mean you're single. It means you've never ever had a choice in it.

If a girl literally lines up a 100 random men on a dating app, and gets rejected 100 times out of 100, than she can claim to be an actual incel. The thing is we don't need to run the experiment in reverse, constant rejection on dating apps is part of incel life.



B) Anything can happen. I'm sure there are a minority of true incel women, but those are some unique atypical circumstances//or are north of 35.



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26 Feb 2024, 5:02 pm

So it comes down to what you personally think makes someone involuntarily celibate? If a woman decides to reject men that are clearly as*holes, does that not count?

Many people do not use dating apps. Given the harassment women often experience on apps, some decide that they aren’t safe.


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funeralxempire
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26 Feb 2024, 5:08 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
So it comes down to what you personally think makes someone involuntarily celibate? If a woman decides to reject men that are clearly as*holes, does that not count?


Interesting angle. One can't really be an incel if they're always being rejected due to their personality because not being an insufferable prick is a choice anyone can make. Refusing to not be an insufferable as*hole is a voluntary choice.

And yet they seethe and blame women and liberal men and Chad Thundercock for their own choice to always be insufferable.


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TwilightPrincess
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26 Feb 2024, 5:10 pm

ChiefEspatier wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Everyone is different.

Science demonstrates that people are different and aren’t ALL attracted to the same things. I’m not attracted to the traits you enumerated but, instead, to innate character qualities.


Unless actual science has determined what you're claiming isn't actually at all true. Just because you can't describe your attraction to potential partners doesn't mean someone else can't and hasn't.

This is a driving point of resentment. You're refusing to acknowledge that your sexual attraction can be defined.
I didn’t claim that other people couldn’t describe their “attraction to potential partners.” I said that people are different.

I’m not responsible for other people’s resentment, not that I would particularly care if I was. If people are experiencing resentment and animosity because of the opinions of other people, it’s time to see a therapist. You can’t change other people. You can change yourself/your attitude.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 26 Feb 2024, 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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26 Feb 2024, 5:11 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
So it comes down to what you personally think makes someone involuntarily celibate? If a woman decides to reject men that are clearly as*holes, does that not count?


Interesting angle. One can't really be an incel if they're always being rejected due to their personality because not being an insufferable prick is a choice anyone can make. Refusing to not be an insufferable as*hole is a voluntary choice.

And yet they seethe and blame women and liberal men and Chad Thundercock for their own choice to always be insufferable.

Exactly!


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ChiefEspatier
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26 Feb 2024, 5:11 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
So it comes down to what you personally think makes someone involuntarily celibate?


Look you've just given away you don't even know the definition of the topic.


TwilightPrincess wrote:
If a woman decides to reject men that are clearly as*holes, does that not count?


Are you serious?

involuntary:::: done without will or conscious control.


you're describing exactly voluntary celebacy, there's not even in the same ballpark of complaints.

That has absolutely nothing what so ever to do what being an incel is all about.

The whole point is that there's no choice, no matter what 100 out of 100 women in the room won't have sex with them.

Just the same a guy in no shape or form can get a uterous donor so they can have a child.

They have zero control absolutely zero control or input into their reproductive future. They are effectively born barren.

This is the whole point, being an incel is specifically being bitter that you have no choice, you were born and it was predecided that almost no one in your peer group will have sex with you.




TwilightPrincess wrote:
Many people do not use dating apps. Given the harassment women often experience on apps, some decide that they aren’t safe.
[/quote]
That's not the point, the point is if they chose to someone will sleep with them.



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26 Feb 2024, 5:15 pm

So it’s voluntary if women reject someone who seems like a likely abuser? :roll:


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funeralxempire
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26 Feb 2024, 5:15 pm

ChiefEspatier wrote:
That's not the point, the point is if they chose to someone will sleep with them.


Ironically, the woman I'm interested is pretty similar to an incel in a lot of ways. I don't think the fact that there's someone who would sleep with her in a heartbeat doesn't cancel out her experiences that cause her to conclude that no one would ever view her as attractive.

Thankfully she doesn't use those insecurities as an excuse to be insufferable, which seems to be common among the self-proclaimed incel men.


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funeralxempire
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26 Feb 2024, 5:18 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
So it’s voluntary if women reject someone who seems like a likely abuser? :roll:


It's voluntary to reject abusers, but constantly showing red flags that one is an abuser is definitely involuntary and refusing to date people who show those red flags is discrimination against the decency impaired.


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ChiefEspatier
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26 Feb 2024, 5:32 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Interesting angle. One can't really be an incel if they're always being rejected due to their personality because not being an insufferable prick is a choice anyone can make.





a) Define "insufferable prick" in scientific terms. Without describing someone with a personality disorder. Remember you can't use "beliefs or opinions" you can have "toxic" beliefs or opinions and still get a date, it's part of the resentment of incel.

b) Being an incel isn't a metric of being unable to sustain relationships, it's about an inability to start them in the first place.

c) If you define all incels as insufferable pricks you have a circular argument that doesn't hold any water.

d) Anecdotally I'm an insufferable prick, never got in the way of my love life. In fact depending on context it's an asset. Being highly agreeable is usually repellent for a substantial portion of women. It's why the bad boy motif is a thing, vampires/werewolves/ruthless executives get written into romance stories for a reason.



funeralxempire wrote:
Refusing to not be an insufferable as*hole is a voluntary choice.


If you're describing someone as insufferable and are actually not just hating on someone you probably actually are describing someone with a personality disorder.

Like that's not a reach.

funeralxempire wrote:
And yet they seethe and blame women and liberal men and Chad Thundercock for their own choice to always be insufferable.


Again define insufferrable, you'll find a lot of women are not attracted to autistic personalities.



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26 Feb 2024, 5:36 pm

ChiefEspatier wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Interesting angle. One can't really be an incel if they're always being rejected due to their personality because not being an insufferable prick is a choice anyone can make.





a) Define "insufferable prick" in scientific terms. Without describing someone with a personality disorder. Remember you can't use "beliefs or opinions" you can have "toxic" beliefs or opinions and still get a date, it's part of the resentment of incel.

b) Being an incel isn't a metric of being unable to sustain relationships, it's about an inability to start them in the first place.

c) If you define all incels as insufferable pricks you have a circular argument that doesn't hold any water.

d) Anecdotally I'm an insufferable prick, never got in the way of my love life. In fact depending on context it's an asset. Being highly agreeable is usually repellent for a substantial portion of women. It's why the bad boy motif is a thing, vampires/werewolves/ruthless executives get written into romance stories for a reason.



funeralxempire wrote:
Refusing to not be an insufferable as*hole is a voluntary choice.


If you're describing someone as insufferable and are actually not just hating on someone you probably actually are describing someone with a personality disorder.

Like that's not a reach.

funeralxempire wrote:
And yet they seethe and blame women and liberal men and Chad Thundercock for their own choice to always be insufferable.


Defining insufferable pricks is kinda like defining hardcore pornography, you know it when you see it. I'm sorry the answer isn't as clear cut as looking at how many character points one assigned to being a prick on their character sheet.


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TwilightPrincess
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26 Feb 2024, 5:37 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
So it’s voluntary if women reject someone who seems like a likely abuser? :roll:


It's voluntary to reject abusers, but constantly showing red flags that one is an abuser is definitely involuntary and refusing to date people who show those red flags is discrimination against the decency impaired.

:lol:

Women need to start being more accommodating to being sent dick pics, complaints about blue balls, sexual harassment, and the like. We’re just too damn picky.


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ChiefEspatier
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26 Feb 2024, 5:41 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
So it’s voluntary if women reject someone


Yes that's literally the definition of voluntary celebacy.


TwilightPrincess wrote:
who seems like a likely abuser? :roll:


you literally are using the terms "seems like" as in you're literally describing an obvious barrier that makes it harder for autistic men to date.

You're describing one of the literal scenarios where one is stuck being an incel.

They don't have the social skills to not seem creepy, because it turns out autistic people seem creepy. So you have to compensate without making yourself even creepier.

That isn't a complex theory "creepy" isn't some magical term.

Bald men study after study are deemed "creepy"

People using awkward body language are deemed creepy.

People who make poor eye contact/facial expressions seem creepy.