Anti-cure Cowardice?

Post Reply New Topic

Many of us do not believe there is anything to "cure". We're not broken, we do not need to be fixed. For some autistics, there may be a need for certain treatments. Treatments, targeting specific problems: self-destructive stims, exceedlingly disruptive behaviour, violent meltdowns, lack of self-care habits, etc.- are good. An NT person will seek treatment for depression, anxiety, OCD, anger management issues, whatever. An autistic person can do the same, without "getting rid of" their autism. We can be whole, healthy, happy autistic people who seek treatments for some problems. That is why I prefer the term "autistic person" over "person with autism"- it can be who we are, not a condition we suffer from. And we can be happy being who we are, if only others would let us be.

Maybe this is what a cure or major treatment is intended to target. I'd add to your list...varying degrees of auditory, visual, and tactile sensory symptoms, and, varying degrees of communicative problems (verbal, non-verbal, etc).

When a NT seeks a cure for depression, and finds one, they remain the people they are, yet their depression is removed, and when it is removed, they no longer have certain limitations, and now have certain other abilities.

Adding to my original post http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt54644.html

(6) Many speculate, out of pure fear, I'd argue, that any major treatment or cure for autism would, also, remove their personhood, personality, self, etc. This is one conception of a cure for autism, and one clearly psychological in nature, though commonly found in the autism community. Other conceptions: a cure will leave the core personality and self intact, but provide abilities that the autistic person is lacking, and yes this would involve differences in the person, but the person's core personality and self would remain. Analogous to a person with substantial physical limitations: a cure would provide increased physical capacities, and yes the person will no longer be only able to do tasks of nature A, but instead will be able to do tasks of nature B, where the A tasks include those of minimal physical function, and the B tasks include those of more extensive physical function. And yes the person may have no interest in doing the A tasks any longer since the person can now do the B tasks. Say the person has revolved her life around the A tasks for 30 years, and identifies with them very closely, and they are a central part of who she is. Well now the B tasks allow her, her SELF, to do more with who she is, rather than be limited.

Also like being blind from birth and for considerable time. The person knows nothing else and has learned to live with it very well. Upon being able to see, the person, at the core, remains the same, yet is now able to do more. In the absence of the current possibility of having her sight restored, would she object to any attempts to do so, or simply be open to hearing about any attempts and awaiting what there may be? If she does object, would it be because others have made her feel inferior that she is blind, or that she feels inferior herself regardless of what others have done? If she does object, maybe she also feels superior being blind, arguing that she experiences the world more directly as she is through her visual imagination, and touch, and hearing, and care of imagination, touch, and hearing. And that the visual world is over valued, and that those who try to cure her are imposing themselves on her, and that any efforts are a waste of money, and that there should be more blind people in the world with her unique auditory, tactile, and imaginative abilities. She'll argue that while she needs assistance, this is irrelevant to her above points.
And maybe upon being cured, she will dislike the cure, because she is shocked by the new ability and it disrupts everything she has known, and she is psychologically averse to it, and will not give it a chance through practice and therapy. Wouldn't this be psychological?

I've also noted that many state that there "will never be a cure" and that "the idea is absurd". This is psychological, because there in fact may be one. Arguing against this kind of possibility is only psychological. It is not like arguing "I may be able to jump 20 feet in the air tomorrow" which is absurd and not a reasonable possibility."

The dsm says:



Don't your claims seem to fly in the face of criteria E?

2ukenkerl, you're trapped in a fear-based cycle of anti-cure rhetoric. There is absolutley no evidence whatsoever that this mystery cure, which doesn't even exist, will cause any harm to you. Are you angry that you've become different than you were as a child? That you've changed so incredibly from a small innocent child, that you would desperately desire to go back? That you who was a child is dead, is that it? They're no longer in existence, because you took their place, right? Just because you change, even dramatically, doesn't make you any less who you are. Are you like Peter Pan, never wanting to grow up, or a rather morbid person fearful of change?

Science is never a simple thing. If you want answers, you examine all angles. Learning to fly took study, experiments, and eventually, the airplane was created. They looked in all areas, like gliding, gravity, mechanical force, motion, kinetics, and a myriad of other theories. And rest easy, I already told you if you're too meek to take the plunge, I'll be glad to jump to prove or disprove it. I said it, and I meant it.

Also, you are not as badly off as those who desire a cure, because they want a cure, and you don't. If you're like me, and get along fine in the world, then curing us is an exercise in futility, a useless thing to do. But I will support a cure for those who want it. If you don't want a cure, you don't need a cure, but for those who do want a cure, they deserve one.

Of course my name is appropriate. I found early on that if you take a stance that is disagreed with, you're nothing but a joke. At least I've the guts to admit that just because I don't want to be cured, doesn't mean someone else doesn't want one.

Who_Am_I, I say it because I think it's valid. It's not like NTs are all soulless boogeymen, or that they want to kill us. It's astounding what some people attribute to NTs that's just outright offensve and wrong. AS is a difference, and I don't know about you, but I never led a sheltered life. That difference is harmful to us when we're children. So many Aspies posting in the suicide thread. When did they consider suicide the most? Childhood to late teens. I didn't see any other ages when people considered suicide. That right there, coupled with my own story, and the stories of dozens of Autistics, leads me to believe that Autism is not a joyful thing, not when it's affecting our abilities to interact, when we're suffering because of it. The formative years are unkind to us, and I do not want to grow up to be like the bitter, angry adult aspies that I've been seeing.

Deacon, you're operating on the "OMG a cure will kill us, we won't be who we are anymore!" assumption. It's the same as being scared of growing up, or of going through puberty. You're scared of the change, and you don't want to change, and it's all so unknown to you... It's like you're choosing not to go through puberty because it'll change you so much.
It's foolish to me, after puberty, that I was scared of it. Just as foolish as I'd feel if I could choose whether or not to go through puberty, and had chosen not to. Well, I would be ignorant of it, and those who had gone through puberty would feel that I made a mistake. NTs aren't as bad as they're made out to be. It's a disgusting thing to me that so many aspies and auties assume that being an NT is somehow bad.

Anbuend, then why do those who don't want a cure fight the people who do want a cure? Why do they hold them back? And look at the thread on "If Autism was contagious" for a look at how aspies and auties feel about making people autistic, the reverse of the NTs "curing autism."

TheMidnightJudge. First, people can go buy a hot dog if they want, but it's a hassle if hot dogs won't even be invented because a group of people don't like the idea of hot dogs, and fight hard to keep the people who want hot dogs from even making them in the first place. Thus, the people who want hot dogs won't be able to get them. If the people who want the money given to invent hot dogs should be used to buy them hamburgers, then the charities they need to talk to are the Hamburger charities, not appropriate money given to invent hot dogs.

Second, it's because you're a person that you are who you are, not because of autism. Think, do the NTs not have any of the things you have because they don't have autism? It's not like your only features that make you who you are are ASD exclusive. Have a little faith in yourself, and not in your Autism. I'm a poet because I love poetry, not because a little guy inside my head wearing a nametag reading "Aspergers" is picking out my interests. And if I no longer like things I did before, there's more than just a narrow interest. Like reading a series of books, then losing interest in them, there's always a different book to read.

Third, it's up to people's consciences to determine their actions. It takes a bitter opinion of NTs to assume that all they want to do is kill off unborn babies until they get one they want. A few people are like that, but not everyone is.

Fourth, we're gunshy of soceity to start, no? Not even before we have horrible experiences, we're already uncomfortable in some social situations. It could be that we just use our anxiety, or fear, to validate that we don't want to interact socially, and that being cured may make it a common occurance, our reactions are shaded by past experiences. In essence, we do not want to do it. (Don't even get me started on the Curebie harassers, they're bad news)

Fifth, to some parents, who watch their children hurting themselves, flailing wildly, and screaming, it's one of those things. Look up Sue Rubin's view on the cure debate, it's quite enlightening.

I agree, there is good stuff about Autism, but those who don't want to be Autistic should have the right to it. They deserve it. It's their choice, and it should be respected.

FabShelley, is Autism, the kind that people want cured, was anything like lefthandedness, freckles, or hair colour, we'd not be trying to cure it. Just because you don't feel debilitated doesn't mean that others don't. The people who want a cure deserve a cure, and I'd like you to tell someone with severe autism all about how Autism doesn't need to be cured, and that they ought to be happy to live the "Joys of Autism."

DeaconBlues, you might want to check out the "What if Autism was Contagious" thread. It'll shed some light on the whole issue of not forcing a cure for the NTs onto people. Boy, they're so eager.

TheMandalore, some do. You're putting the wants of those who don't, over the wants of those who do. And when those who do feel that they need a cure, I tend to agree with them. You're blocking them from getting a cure because you yourself don't want one. You don't want a cure, and I understand that. But are you so against a cure that you'll deny it to others? It's just an idea so far, there's no cure. But are you so willing to stand up and fight those who want a cure? Will you really tell those who want a cure, those with severe autism, that you don't want a cure, so there will be no cure?

Unable to accept another because they don't fit in? Wouldn't you say that's exactly what's happened here? His views are at odds with yours, and you want him to accept your views. You want him to conform to the majority.

I agree with you, Daniel. All the way.

Inventor, that was a long post, on a wild tangent. But seriously, it's more like a sci-fi novel than a serious possibility. The future's always unknow, Inventor. And I find it astonishing that you believe that every person with Autism are without empathy.

Error there, 2ukenkerl. That's just Aspergers Syndrome. Nowhere close to severe autism.

And now, to post someone's opinion. You may recognize her, her name is Sue Rubin. I regard her highly.

The argument dividing the autism community regarding the need to cure autism as opposed to accepting autistic people as a natural expression of diversity has been on my mind a lot lately. The possibility that I could be very autistic for the rest of my life always upsets me. Therefore, when people talk about a cure I actually love to hear it. To be realistic, I know I will never be cured. The cause of my autism is a genetic anomaly and can't be changed.

The rift in the autism community basically is between what we label high-functioning and low-functioning people. High-functioning people speak and low-functioning people don't. The people with Asperger's syndrome, also a type of autism, love to talk; however, their very narrow areas of interest give them away. These people are the ones who are offended by the idea of a cure. They could pass for normal although for them, sallying in a normal group is like an uptown elder at a rap concert. They listen only to people who please them and only speak to inform others about their interests. Social skills are difficult to master. I believe the idea that they should be cured is wrong. They are different, but basically are just a variation of the norm and should be accepted as such. Some even have exceptional abilities that should be celebrated and encouraged.

As a low-functioning autistic person who is still really awash in autism, I actually am aligned with the cure group, although I will not personally benefit if a cure is found. Low-functioning people are just trying to get through the day without hurting, tapping, flailing, biting, screaming, etc. The thought of a gold pot of a potion with a cure really would be wonderful.

Since this is not going to happen, I am resigned to living my life as it is -- a constant struggle. When I have to mask autism in class it takes a tremendous amount of effort. When I see the other students sitting calmly or chatting or answering questions so easily, I'm really jealous. When I had to stop awful autistic behaviors like head-banging, it took a tremendous amount of effort over years. When I see people living normal lives, I am jealous. When I am really lost in autism and can't inhibit behaviors that annoy staff, I deflect anger from myself to them and create bad feelings. When I see how normal people interact with their friends I am jealous.

As a person who lives with autism daily and will not live a normal life, I find people who are high functioning and saying society should not look for a cure offensive. They have no idea what our lives are like. Killing autism lets me enjoy a life with great friends and allows me to go to college, but I must never let down my guard or autism will take over. I don't want any more children to live, as I must, in this constant state of war.

I am not the same person I was when I was depressed. So a change in condition DOES push a change in personality.
Many factors cause teens to be suicidal. Many teens are suicidal who are not AS.

NO ONE here wants severe low functioning Autistics to continue to suffer. Perhaps for the sake of this Imaginary argument we should seperate the spectrum.

" A cure for Aspergers?"

There. If I weren't AS I would still be filled with anxiety. Just about different things. Social status etc.

The main problem AS people have with Nts is the lack of empathy, no SYMPATHY from them. Sympathy comes from a state one can relate to. Everybody at some point has felt like an outcast. If society remembered that things would go a lot easier on us. I'm not saying fullblown AS behavior should go unchecked, but people if aware could be encouraging instead of ostracizing.

Nt people strive to be different. Tatoos, hippies, etc all outward declarations of what we AS are already, individuals.

I was undiagnosed for YEARS , but I still did not want to be a different person. I knew I was different, I had my ups and downs just like any other human being.

I am familar with the handicapped anti-cure movement. Older handicapped people who feel enabling a child to hear or see is a threat to thier identity. This is different.

There are PLENTY of "normal " people out there who are jerks and make life Hell for each other. What you're talking about here is not enabling me to regain one of my senses you are attacking MY CULTURE, my personality. You are saying its not just different, its WRONG.

There is no one correct way to think or act!

Since this is a science fiction what if topic. I'll share my thoughts on a story I'm writing.

On another planet there are two branches of civilization. One devoted to religion, one to commercialism. Of course they are at war. The thing they have in common is occasionally a mutant is born into thier respective midsts. Someone who does not serve the society first. Someone does not place groupthinking above thier personal opinion of things. These two societies can identify these mutants at birth. They have a cease fire when it comes to "disposing " of thier mutants. They both drive them out to a resevation and leave them.

As a result the culture and technology on this planet have not advanced at all in hundreds of years. No new radical ideas!

Meanwhile the "mutants" sit in the resevation doing useless non productive things all day long like playing, hypothisizing, painting, singing. No of which serves the economy or the church . . . what a waste

You've missed my point.

If those negative factors are removed through treatments, the person will still be autistic. We will not be neurotypical, ever. I hope. I wouldn't mind being less sensitive to noise and touch, but not at the expense of losing my focused "obsessive" interests. Not at the expense of feeling the need to fit in and make small talk. Not at the expense of being never again entertained for hours writing a list of names, only to erase it when I'm done. Not at the expense of losing the sheer delight of plunging my arms into a barrel of dry beans or running hot water over my hands that I'm not sure "normal" people can fully appreciate. Not, ever, at the expense of myself.

2ukenkerl,

Check up on Attwood and his clinical experience (which is far more advanced than that of the DSM-IV-TR); many of those with AS lack in self-help skills, and this persists well into adulthood--it's not "severe" in that it's life-threatening (for the most part), but it really does impact on work and school.

Now, imagine those with autistic disorder who cannot "execute" the function of feeding themselves.

Maybe a reason were so sensitive to noise is life is too damn loud these days!

Thats an extension of aour rigidness an inability to adapt?

My aunt down on the farm, theres no WAY she would ever be able to understand how people can stand to live in apartment buildings.

We AS are not adapting fast enough. I gave up TV because the edits cuts and information was too fast. Its all screaming to get our attention! I won't eat in a resturant with a TV because of this. Remember when we weren't supposed to eat dinner in front of the tv?

You're asking me to be able to adapt to something thats not healthy to begin with. How many times has the sound of the wind or birds and a bubbling brook drove you to sensory overload?

I know. I'm being Idealistic. I understand a lot of what were going through is hard. I don't know what all your conditions are. But are we really so far removed from NT people? Don't they enjoy the quiet ? ( Untill the NT small talk stim kicks in) Almost everybody on the site cuts the tags off thier shirts. Now they sell most t shirts without tags on the necks.

I think thers a lot of things we should rock the boat over.

But Maybe you're right. I didn't understand your point. I'll go back and reread them now.

HUH? I have no fear here, and am not trapped, I also am not trapped in any anti cure rhetoric. WOW!! !! *****AMATURE PSYCHIATRIST ALERT!! !!***** Joeker, DON'T quit your day job, unless it has to do with psychiatry or the mind! I DO wish I could go back and change some things. I've said that here before. SO WHAT? I know I can't, and I know the idea of a cure is hypothetical, and probably won't affect me. SO WHAT? YOU are the one that doesn't seem to know we are discussing the hypothetical.

Well, the airplane wasn't really invented that way, but believe what you will.

YEP, I know there are people far worse off than I am. Some are even on this site! HEY, I HAVE said I am ALL FOR a cure to certain things. I think we all are. But the part that is basically autism ITSELF doesn't seem that bad, and can actually be GOOD.

Hey, I HAVE said that it would be nice if I had a cure for the social element. Daniel could probably use one for executive function. Some could be made less sensitive, etc.... I realize that. I never said I didn't.

As I said, YOU seem to fail to realize this is hypothetical.

Thank God someone finally said it. Seriously. Leftys? What freaks. And Ginger Kids? Come on now, no one really likes Gingers. CURE THE GINGER GENE NOW.

Correct, Krista! Not to mention black skin, gender, eye colour and so on......

What blows me away is the poster IS an Aspie.

Nothing about this blows me away. I don't really feel the need to get all heated about this crap. There have been a million posts like this (including one from myself) since I joined the forum. It's the same stuff over and over again. Some will kill themselves if they find there is no cure, some want to kill people who are looking for a cure.

Tomato tomato.

Haha.

Doesn't work as well when you type it I guess.

Joeker,

It is not Science Fiction, it is history, and in 1960, you would not be a a University, but locked up for life.

University is better than being burned at the stake, on some days.

About the same time Native Americans were freed from being prisoners of war without rights, confined to reservations, and gained the Rights of Ciitizens. It seems keeping the great grand children locked up was finally seen as oppresive.

Since then both groups have done well, all those stories about how they could not function in superior white civilization were without merit.

This thread is not about if some want a cure, it is an attack on those who have no faith in curbies.

All we sought was equal rights for all. You do have a right to an education, to seek medical treatment you approve of, but not to force your views upon others.

We must be making a real dent in Autism Speaks fund raising. If only you could do something about anticure points of view. You are trying, but the result is, you offend people, by steping on their basic rights.

You may be right for you, but so is everyone else for themselves, and as Aspergers outnumber Autism, they are the ones who will be targeted, the lab rats for the cure. Their objection is that they do not want to be involved, their right to chose their own life, is what you are fighting here.

It sounds like your Major is Curbie Fundraising.

Seriously theres more Aspergers than "regular" Autistics?

I mean THIS end of the spectrum is more crowded?