I am opposed to those calling for Michael Savage's sacking

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Does the reaction to Michael Savage's comments have any similarity with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton's idiocy with regard to people saying the "n" word?
Yes 42%  42%  [ 8 ]
No 58%  58%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 19

graemephillips
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02 Sep 2008, 10:13 am

Just to make it clear, I would like to point out straight away that I have Asperger's syndrome myself and that it has caused me considerable difficulty in life. However, I would like to say that I am not in favour of Michael Savage being sacked for his comments about autism.

For too long, the anti-racism movement has been tainted by idiots like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson putting themselves as self-appointed leaders of all the world's blacks and sadistically campaigning for anyone uttering the "n" word to have their careers wrecked. I would like to propose that everyone ignores these two morons until they actually do something useful for the race relations cause.

Similarly, I would like to stop hearing all these calls for Michael Savage to undergo punishments for what he said. If you want to campaign about hate speech, you should stop spreading hate against Michael Savage. In the words of our Lord and Savour Jesus Christ, you should remove the log from your own eye before trying to remove the speck from someone else's.

I have read through what he said and it seems that he made a perfectly valid point, but his careless choice of words caused this reaction. I genuinely believe that many people who don't really have autism are using this label to justify some negative area of their lives. In doing so, this undermines the credibility of people who really have it. It is a bit like how dyslexia has come to be regarded by many people as "middle class for thick". I do not want autism to be regarded as "working/middle class for naughty". If a child genuinely is autistic, then give them the necessary help, but if a child is just naughty, then they should be belted.



KingChaosNinja
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02 Sep 2008, 10:30 am

Well for starters, I think it's a bit of a jump to label us a race. We're more of a minority. I also think that the poll is a bit of a loaded question. While I do think that Rev, Sharpton and Rev. Jackson do take things to an extreme sometimes, I can't deny that they do truly hate racial epithets being used.

As far as the comments made by by Mr. Savage, I find them greatly misinformed. Even what he said in the context of the situation was rehearsed and thought out, yet he failed to do the necessary research to develop a true opinion on the topic before deciding to get on the air and broadcast his misinformation to countless people.

Also, I would be more forgiving if this was the first time Mr. Savage had said something so heinously offensive. On shear journalistic and editorial integrity he should be canned, yet the powers that be keep him on the radio and published in print because this kind of spectacle generates huge profits.

Finally, while I do fervently believe that Mr. Savage does have the right to free-speech, he also has the responsibility to use it with discretion. A responsibility that Mr. Savage has a long track record of neglecting.


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graemephillips
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02 Sep 2008, 10:51 am

I think Michael Savage has a right to freedom of speech, as does everyone else. I don't believe freedom of speech should mean "freedom, so long as you don't say anything in opposition to some whingeing minorities". Freedom of speech should be absolute.

From what I hear, Michael Savage is nothing more than a shock-jock anyway, meaning that reasonably intelligent people are not likely to believe anything he says without a pinch of salt.

As for the question of whether we are a race or a minority, I am not bothered in the slightest. What I am bothered about is that there is too much political correctness in the world.



KingChaosNinja
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02 Sep 2008, 11:32 am

graemephillips wrote:
I think Michael Savage has a right to freedom of speech, as does everyone else. I don't believe freedom of speech should mean "freedom, so long as you don't say anything in opposition to some whingeing minorities". Freedom of speech should be absolute.


One word: Libel

graemephillips wrote:
From what I hear, Michael Savage is nothing more than a shock-jock anyway, meaning that reasonably intelligent people are not likely to believe anything he says without a pinch of salt.


I tend to try and give people the benefit of the doubt, but reasonably intelligent people don't listen to talk radio. Just impressionable morons.

graemephillips wrote:
As for the question of whether we are a race or a minority, I am not bothered in the slightest. What I am bothered about is that there is too much political correctness in the world.


Just because there may be too much political correctness doesn't mean that we should completely abandon it. A truly free society can not stand if it is compltely tolerant of intolerance.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum


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Jaysonlee4
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02 Sep 2008, 11:39 am

First, take your "lord Jesus christ" stuff and stop applying it to everyone....not everyone believes the way you do! christians...sigh...so arrogant. second, this is not a free speech issue!! michael "wiener" savage works for a COMMERCIAL network. getting his sponsors pulled isnt censorship....its free capitalist society....


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graemephillips
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02 Sep 2008, 11:42 am

That's the whole point of libertarianism (the political ideology I think governments should go by): - being tolerant of intolerance. Genuine liberalism means tolerating other people's views, even when they don't agree with your own and that includes tolerating people's views if they are intolerant of a minority group. If say I want to hate the disabled, blacks, women, homosexuals, hispanics etc, that is entirely my affair and I feel it is my right to express views openly. Similarly, if Michael Savage wants to express his views about autism openly, I feel that is a matter of free speech.



graemephillips
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02 Sep 2008, 11:44 am

So do you think it is right for people to criticise without making themselves blameless first? This is a view held by many people, even those who aren't religious. Similarly, many people will happily say that we should treat others the way we expect others to treat ourselves without realising that this was said by Jesus in Matthew 7:12. Are you standing here and telling me that these two points are a load of rubbish?



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02 Sep 2008, 11:58 am

graemephillips wrote:
So do you think it is right for people to criticise without making themselves blameless first? This is a view held by many people, even those who aren't religious. Similarly, many people will happily say that we should treat others the way we expect others to treat ourselves without realising that this was said by Jesus in Matthew 7:12. Are you standing here and telling me that these two points are a load of rubbish?


here we go again...quote your bible all you want......it does not apply..and firing savage has nothing to do with free speech....if his sponsors dont like his hate speech, they have a right to pull their sponsorship.....now, if say the FCC was involved, that would be a free speech issue.


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graemephillips
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02 Sep 2008, 12:06 pm

The sponsors do indeed have the right to pull sponsorship, but I don't support the idea of punishing someone for being intolerant. If Michael Savage wishes to reject the cause of liberalism, that is his life choice.

I suspect the reason you are going bonkers every time I mention anything to do with Christianity is because you are wrestling with the dilemmas I have posed. If you were an atheist comfortable with who you are, you would be able to simply say, "Jesus, so what?", without going mental over someone quoting from him. It is a bit like with the homosexuality issue: - people who get scared or angry when around homosexuals do so because they are scared about what their real sexuality might be, whereas fully-fledged heterosexuals can quite comfortably spend time around homosexuals, because they are comfortable with their sexuality and that nothing will change it. Similarly, a fully-fledged atheist would be quite comfortable in the presence of a Christian quoting from the Bible, as he would know that no biblical quotations will change him.



Jaysonlee4
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02 Sep 2008, 12:06 pm

So you like hate speech? where does it say to like that stuff in the bible?? oh wait,,,,there is that nagging old testament isnt there. hey, hate whatever you want...but when you put kids down (forget about the autism) I will not go down without a fight as I suspect most people here wont. To post something in defense of this idiot on an AS website shows your IQ.


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Jaysonlee4
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02 Sep 2008, 12:12 pm

graemephillips wrote:
The sponsors do indeed have the right to pull sponsorship, but I don't support the idea of punishing someone for being intolerant. If Michael Savage wishes to reject the cause of liberalism, that is his life choice.

I suspect the reason you are going bonkers every time I mention anything to do with Christianity is because you are wrestling with the dilemmas I have posed. If you were an atheist comfortable with who you are, you would be able to simply say, "Jesus, so what?", without going mental over someone quoting from him. It is a bit like with the homosexuality issue: - people who get scared or angry when around homosexuals do so because they are scared about what their real sexuality might be, whereas fully-fledged heterosexuals can quite comfortably spend time around homosexuals, because they are comfortable with their sexuality and that nothing will change it. Similarly, a fully-fledged atheist would be quite comfortable in the presence of a Christian quoting from the Bible, as he would know that no biblical quotations will change him.


wow arent you brilliant.....no actually im going "bonkers" as you put it because I just dealt with one of you right wing nutjobs yesterday and thought that id earned a break for a while. m hey,,,,quote from your bible (that has been changed repeatedly throughout history) all you want. besides, those of us who know history realize that more people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. those people flying into the trade centers had there own special bible to! (if you believe it wasnt an inside job). im not an athiest so i do not know what you are talking about.


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KingChaosNinja
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02 Sep 2008, 12:19 pm

graemephillips wrote:
That's the whole point of libertarianism (the political ideology I think governments should go by): - being tolerant of intolerance. Genuine liberalism means tolerating other people's views, even when they don't agree with your own and that includes tolerating people's views if they are intolerant of a minority group. If say I want to hate the disabled, blacks, women, homosexuals, hispanics etc, that is entirely my affair and I feel it is my right to express views openly. Similarly, if Michael Savage wants to express his views about autism openly, I feel that is a matter of free speech.


So what you are saying is that you are in favor of being socially free, like liberals are traditionally for, in order to exuberantly degrade the liberal stand point? Standing for something when it's convenient for you is a truly low stand point.

graemephillips wrote:
So do you think it is right for people to criticise without making themselves blameless first? This is a view held by many people, even those who aren't religious. Similarly, many people will happily say that we should treat others the way we expect others to treat ourselves without realising that this was said by Jesus is 7:12. Are you standing here and telling me that these two points are a load of rubbish?


The rest of your argument is completely incoherent and does not follow the logical order of the discussion, and thus impossible to refute.


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graemephillips
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02 Sep 2008, 6:20 pm

Jaysonlee4 wrote:
So you like hate speech? where does it say to like that stuff in the bible?? oh wait,,,,there is that nagging old testament isnt there. hey, hate whatever you want...but when you put kids down (forget about the autism) I will not go down without a fight as I suspect most people here wont. To post something in defense of this idiot on an AS website shows your IQ.


No, I said nothing about supporting hate speech. I simply said that freedom of speech should be absolute. You can juxtapose the concepts of favouring hate speech and freedom of speech all you want (as indeed many liberals enjoy doing), but I will never accept that they are the same thing. I think Michael Savage used an extremely poor choice of words and this is why I think he found himself in hot water, but I will never advocate any attempts to restrict his or anyone else's freedom of speech.

When I did an I.Q. test, it showed my I.Q. to be 132. I can speak 4 languages fluently and have some knowledge of another 5 and I have a Masters in Electronic and Electrical Engineering with German. Saying that somebody is unintelligent because they disagree with your view is childish to the very extreme.



graemephillips
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02 Sep 2008, 6:26 pm

KingChaosNinja wrote:
graemephillips wrote:
That's the whole point of libertarianism (the political ideology I think governments should go by): - being tolerant of intolerance. Genuine liberalism means tolerating other people's views, even when they don't agree with your own and that includes tolerating people's views if they are intolerant of a minority group. If say I want to hate the disabled, blacks, women, homosexuals, hispanics etc, that is entirely my affair and I feel it is my right to express views openly. Similarly, if Michael Savage wants to express his views about autism openly, I feel that is a matter of free speech.


So what you are saying is that you are in favor of being socially free, like liberals are traditionally for, in order to exuberantly degrade the liberal stand point? Standing for something when it's convenient for you is a truly low stand point.

graemephillips wrote:
So do you think it is right for people to criticise without making themselves blameless first? This is a view held by many people, even those who aren't religious. Similarly, many people will happily say that we should treat others the way we expect others to treat ourselves without realising that this was said by Jesus is 7:12. Are you standing here and telling me that these two points are a load of rubbish?


The rest of your argument is completely incoherent and does not follow the logical order of the discussion, and thus impossible to refute.


My quotation of these two parts of the Holy Scriptures are intended to show that liberals like to go on about how it's intolerant to quote from them, but will often unknowingly use ideas from them to back up their points.

I am indeed saying that I am in favour of social freedom. I have nothing to gain by standing up for Michael Savage and I could quite easily exalt myself by banging on about how intolerant he is and how life as an Aspie is so awful because of people like him. I am merely saying that many liberals are in reality saying that you should be free to say what you like, so long as it doesn't oppose their fakey feel-good causes. My point of view is completely different. I argue that freedom of speech should be absolute.



graemephillips
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02 Sep 2008, 6:31 pm

Jaysonlee4 wrote:
graemephillips wrote:
The sponsors do indeed have the right to pull sponsorship, but I don't support the idea of punishing someone for being intolerant. If Michael Savage wishes to reject the cause of liberalism, that is his life choice.

I suspect the reason you are going bonkers every time I mention anything to do with Christianity is because you are wrestling with the dilemmas I have posed. If you were an atheist comfortable with who you are, you would be able to simply say, "Jesus, so what?", without going mental over someone quoting from him. It is a bit like with the homosexuality issue: - people who get scared or angry when around homosexuals do so because they are scared about what their real sexuality might be, whereas fully-fledged heterosexuals can quite comfortably spend time around homosexuals, because they are comfortable with their sexuality and that nothing will change it. Similarly, a fully-fledged atheist would be quite comfortable in the presence of a Christian quoting from the Bible, as he would know that no biblical quotations will change him.


wow arent you brilliant.....no actually im going "bonkers" as you put it because I just dealt with one of you right wing nutjobs yesterday and thought that id earned a break for a while. m hey,,,,quote from your bible (that has been changed repeatedly throughout history) all you want. besides, those of us who know history realize that more people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. those people flying into the trade centers had there own special bible to! (if you believe it wasnt an inside job). im not an athiest so i do not know what you are talking about.


I reject comparisons between the way of life promoted by the Christian scriptures and the actions of the Islamic community. People who kill in the name of Christianity are not acting in accordance with the scriptures and the Christian scriptures cannot be held accountable for people who reject them whilst claiming to carry out acts in the name of them. Similarly, we cannot hold the Islamic scriptures accountable for atrocities unless they are endorsed therein.



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02 Sep 2008, 7:59 pm

*Avoiding religious debate* Whoever started this thread, I agree with. As much as what Savage said make me want to go grab a semi-automatic and bust a few caps in his ass, the point is that a) What he said was perfectly within the lines of free speech, and cannot be considered slander because we are not an officially recognized minority group and because he didn't mention any individuals in particular, and b) Savage is the usual kind of shock jockey that says stuff on the radio just so that he can get shouted at by a bunch of people and so that the ignoramuses that listen to his drivel can get a few laughs at our expense. Immoral, yes. Illegal, not to the extent that we would need to file a lawsuit or similar. My point being that there's really nothing we can do but ignore him, since criticism does nothing but fuel his fire. Of course, we can always boycott the radio station he's on, but the fact remains that we are a small minority, and thus not likely to make a difference in that respect.

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