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Should eradicating Austism be considered a hate crime?
yes 51%  51%  [ 65 ]
no 19%  19%  [ 24 ]
maybe, given the right circumstances 23%  23%  [ 30 ]
I don't know 7%  7%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 128

morning_after
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11 Mar 2008, 12:55 pm

Aranittara wrote:
orangered wrote:
I am for Science. The more we know, the better. Basic research is most useful, but it will not get any money,
while "the cure" will. Better than nothing. Also, some people want the cure desperately.

There are legitimate concerns about (still hypothetical) cure, lobotomy warns,
but I would expect heated discussion about when to use cure, not whether to look for it.

Arguments of some anti-cure people are very strange, it seems to me they consider even learning NT skills
as personal defeat - something that shifts them towards hated NTs.
(I wonder whether they would deliberately eat mercury if it was found as cause of AS)


I am part of a more moderate group of the anti-cure movement I'm not against blending in with society. however I would oppose any research into a cure until 1. genetic screening against autism is illegal 2. cure requires written consent from all guardians and if the individual is capable of communicating their written consent.
Essentially I don't want us to be eliminated as a group and I want to maintain a choice for myself and my children not to take the cure.


I would want to see a cure for those who want to be cured, but I believe that a cure would be forced on those of us that don't want it.



morning_after
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11 Mar 2008, 1:03 pm

alex wrote:
Orwell wrote:
alex wrote:
There's enough of us that we should be able to make some noise. I think we should form some sort of mass movement to bring attention to the fact that sending a negative message about autistics is not the way to go.

Suggestions? You are the most respected figure here, and someone most of us look up to. You probably are in the best possible position to do such a thing, and I'm sure many (though perhaps not all) of us would support any such effort you spearheaded.



There are so many ways to get our voices heard.

For instance, I'm going to be speaking to the Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee in DC (the executive office building across from the white house) on Friday. I will be urging the committee to appropriate more government funding to research that can result in increasing the quality of life for autistic people as opposed to using that money for scientific studies with the goal of prenatal screenings (which doesn't help the millions of americans with autism at all). I will also be expressing my discontent that the committee includes Allison Tepper Singer, the VP of Autism Speaks (the woman who talked about running her kid off the brooklyn bridge). The head of the National Institute of Health is the chair of the committee I believe and all the members should be at the meeting on friday.


Well, Alex, I would love to go, but I live clear across the country. However, I will point out that you could use any posts or blogs of mine that you see fit.



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11 Mar 2008, 1:09 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
It depends on whether eradicating autism means eradicating autistic people or not. If it means alleviating those who are genuinely suffering and would like to be cured, then no, it isn't a hate crime at all. If it means killing everyone on the spectrum, then yes of course it would be genocide, or something akin to it. But it isn't that black and white.


But, unfortuneatly, eradicating it would mean killing some of us that are on the spectrum, or at least a forced cure.



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11 Mar 2008, 1:16 pm

sartresue wrote:
Hateration topic

Maybe the termcould be AUTIECIDE: a systematic and deliberate eradication of peoples living on the Autism spectrum through gene selection and prenatal screening. (I added the extra E after the first I.

I know googling of AUTICIDE brings up a translated definition of a biological control of pests (of all things 8O ) but I would imagine that many of the curebies feel AS and Autistics are on the pest continuum. :evil:

The idea is the same: MURDER. 8O


You have my vote, too.



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11 Mar 2008, 1:22 pm

Pepperfire wrote:
alex wrote:
Pepperfire wrote:
What the project would need is a bankroller... Someone with money who believes in the cause.


How much money?


Well, I would suggest that with lots of manpower, an entire infrastructure and business plan for the program could possibly be put together for $10,000-$50,000, it could probably be done for lots less, but it would take a lot more work.

For $10,000 you could include the legal fees to set up the infrastructure as a non-profit as well as set up everything that would be needed to set up the knowledge base and online magazine.

Of course, I'm pulling those numbers off the top of my head based on setting up a business, (which I've done twice) and on the anticipation that infrastructure costs such as telephone, cable, rent (both physical and internet) etc. would be paid out of add-on donations.

I expect that there would be grants available (but cannot guarantee this) from both North American Governments.

It's not that big a deal, I don't think and there are lots of Autism/Autism related groups out there who are as angry with Autism Speaks as I am from which donations/funding/support could be garnered.

I think it can be done... but I have a business of my own to run, not to mention a family, so I cannot commit much more than a support role to such a project at this time. (My husband would kill me!). But, I am willing to be as supportive as I can if someone else wants to pick up this ball and run with it.

Truth be told... I think it's an idea whose time has come.


How would you suggest doing the fundraising?



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11 Mar 2008, 1:38 pm

maybe, given the right circumstances



morning_after
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11 Mar 2008, 1:42 pm

I have had an idea.

One of the radio stations that I otherwise enjoy listening to locally has been playing the "Autism Speaks" radio spots, where they compare the number of people that have autism with the number of people that do things like becoming pro-sports players. Then they go on to say something like if your child doesn't babble by a certain age, talk by a certain age, etc. your child could have autism. The ads do not mention the things we can do, but focus on the things we can't in a way that is clearly designed to frighten parents.

I have been thinking of writing a letter of complaint to the radio station, pointing out why I find the ads to be derogatory, but also to complain about "Autism Speaks" and how what "Autism Speaks" does is hateful and derogatory.

I was also thinking that maybe I could post it here, and we could all look at it, see what needs to be changed, and use it as, at the very least, a blueprint for letters that we could all write to our local tv and radio stations when they air ads for "Autism Speaks" or a similar organization.

What do you all think about that?



morning_after
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11 Mar 2008, 1:43 pm

I have had an idea.

One of the radio stations that I otherwise enjoy listening to locally has been playing the "Autism Speaks" radio spots, where they compare the number of people that have autism with the number of people that do things like becoming pro-sports players. Then they go on to say something like if your child doesn't babble by a certain age, talk by a certain age, etc. your child could have autism. The ads do not mention the things we can do, but focus on the things we can't in a way that is clearly designed to frighten parents.

I have been thinking of writing a letter of complaint to the radio station, pointing out why I find the ads to be derogatory, but also to complain about "Autism Speaks" and how what "Autism Speaks" does is hateful and derogatory.

I was also thinking that maybe I could post it here, and we could all look at it, see what needs to be changed, and use it as, at the very least, a blueprint for letters that we could all write to our local tv and radio stations when they air ads for "Autism Speaks" or a similar organization.

What do you all think about that?



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11 Mar 2008, 1:54 pm

morning_after wrote:
Pepperfire wrote:
alex wrote:
Pepperfire wrote:
What the project would need is a bankroller... Someone with money who believes in the cause.


How much money?


Well, I would suggest that with lots of manpower, an entire infrastructure and business plan for the program could possibly be put together for $10,000-$50,000, it could probably be done for lots less, but it would take a lot more work.

For $10,000 you could include the legal fees to set up the infrastructure as a non-profit as well as set up everything that would be needed to set up the knowledge base and online magazine.

Of course, I'm pulling those numbers off the top of my head based on setting up a business, (which I've done twice) and on the anticipation that infrastructure costs such as telephone, cable, rent (both physical and internet) etc. would be paid out of add-on donations.

I expect that there would be grants available (but cannot guarantee this) from both North American Governments.

It's not that big a deal, I don't think and there are lots of Autism/Autism related groups out there who are as angry with Autism Speaks as I am from which donations/funding/support could be garnered.

I think it can be done... but I have a business of my own to run, not to mention a family, so I cannot commit much more than a support role to such a project at this time. (My husband would kill me!). But, I am willing to be as supportive as I can if someone else wants to pick up this ball and run with it.

Truth be told... I think it's an idea whose time has come.


How would you suggest doing the fundraising?


I would begin by forming a committee; having an idea for fundraising is easy. Implementing it is a little trickier.

Grass roots fundraising would be the easiest and quickest to implement, with over 17,000 members here, (and permission) and Alex (hopefully) on board, one would begin by tapping the fundraising abilities of the wrongplanet. I would certainly think a name for the group would help too. Something that would not infringe upon the copyright of, but certainly take away from that of Autism Speaks, certainly I would think a name something like The Real Voices of Autism; or Stim City or something buzzwordie to an Aspie;

Then I would draft a letter describing what the point of the group is and why funding is needed and get that out to all the members and ask them to pass it on.

What might be fun is to write a letter to AS and specifically ask them for an on the record response as to why they are so adamant about destroying us by "curing" us. (Has anyone ever done that?) Does AS know that Aspies don't want to be cured or that we believe eugenics can only result in eradication?

Once that letter is created, it goes out to everyone and anyone we can get it to and one hopes to find sponsorship. That is where the manpower comes in.

If we can get permission to use Amanda's video skills, creating a video that shows that Aspies, even those who are nonverbal, have something to say and want to say it for themselves, it can be done virally. Especially if it is done with humour and charm.

Everyone here knows someone who has the ability, the time, the wherewithal to get this voice heard and if we simply organized, I believe we would become a force to be reckoned with... or at least ANOTHER voice to be heard, and if we shout loud enough, maybe Autism Speaks wouldn't be seen as speaking for us, when they so obviously don't.



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11 Mar 2008, 2:04 pm

richardbenson wrote:
maybe, given the right circumstances


And which circumstances do you think it should be a hate crime?



morning_after
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11 Mar 2008, 2:07 pm

Pepperfire, count me in.



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11 Mar 2008, 2:27 pm

lau wrote:
orangered wrote:
Aranittara wrote:
Essentially I don't want us to be eliminated as a group and I want to maintain a choice for myself and my children not to take the cure.

Well, I do not identify myself with any group. Sorry for disappointing those who feel otherwise.

In that case you would be happy with a cure for maleness? This is also genetic. It is a well know fact that males are more <insert adjective of choice here> than females. They should obviously be cured. You would not identify yourself with this group?

Certainly I do have traits common to other people. Yet I have never got an idea I belong to a worldwide group of males.
Some males apparently feel members of such a group and try to be (or at least appear) as masculine as possible. Not my case.

I have never said someone should be cured against his/her wish, I am concerned about individuals.
You probably did not meant it literally with a cure for maleness, but in case you did, I am not against the possibility to change gender and I am not against anyone who chooses to do so.

As for disappering groups, let's try this example:
You imply AS is purely genetic. Let's say it is. Then, given difficulties with mating AS people experience in average,
it is probable that evolution does not favor AS people. And I still sleep well. Hope I made myself clear.



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11 Mar 2008, 2:31 pm

morning_after wrote:
I have had an idea.

One of the radio stations that I otherwise enjoy listening to locally has been playing the "Autism Speaks" radio spots, where they compare the number of people that have autism with the number of people that do things like becoming pro-sports players. Then they go on to say something like if your child doesn't babble by a certain age, talk by a certain age, etc. your child could have autism. The ads do not mention the things we can do, but focus on the things we can't in a way that is clearly designed to frighten parents.

I have been thinking of writing a letter of complaint to the radio station, pointing out why I find the ads to be derogatory, but also to complain about "Autism Speaks" and how what "Autism Speaks" does is hateful and derogatory.

I was also thinking that maybe I could post it here, and we could all look at it, see what needs to be changed, and use it as, at the very least, a blueprint for letters that we could all write to our local tv and radio stations when they air ads for "Autism Speaks" or a similar organization.

What do you all think about that?


I think it's a good idea.

I also think it's important that any organizational activities be more concentrated on showing what is great about Aspies and Auties and not focus on what is wrong with Autism Speaks.

T



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11 Mar 2008, 2:57 pm

Pepperfire wrote:
morning_after wrote:
I have had an idea.

One of the radio stations that I otherwise enjoy listening to locally has been playing the "Autism Speaks" radio spots, where they compare the number of people that have autism with the number of people that do things like becoming pro-sports players. Then they go on to say something like if your child doesn't babble by a certain age, talk by a certain age, etc. your child could have autism. The ads do not mention the things we can do, but focus on the things we can't in a way that is clearly designed to frighten parents.

I have been thinking of writing a letter of complaint to the radio station, pointing out why I find the ads to be derogatory, but also to complain about "Autism Speaks" and how what "Autism Speaks" does is hateful and derogatory.

I was also thinking that maybe I could post it here, and we could all look at it, see what needs to be changed, and use it as, at the very least, a blueprint for letters that we could all write to our local tv and radio stations when they air ads for "Autism Speaks" or a similar organization.

What do you all think about that?


I think it's a good idea.

I also think it's important that any organizational activities be more concentrated on showing what is great about Aspies and Auties and not focus on what is wrong with Autism Speaks.

T


Okay, then maybe the letter could go into what is great about Aspies.



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11 Mar 2008, 3:02 pm

Pepperfire wrote:
I would begin by forming a committee; having an idea for fundraising is easy. Implementing it is a little trickier.

Grass roots fundraising would be the easiest and quickest to implement, with over 17,000 members here, (and permission) and Alex (hopefully) on board, one would begin by tapping the fundraising abilities of the wrongplanet. I would certainly think a name for the group would help too. Something that would not infringe upon the copyright of, but certainly take away from that of Autism Speaks, certainly I would think a name something like The Real Voices of Autism; or Stim City or something buzzwordie to an Aspie;

Then I would draft a letter describing what the point of the group is and why funding is needed and get that out to all the members and ask them to pass it on.

What might be fun is to write a letter to AS and specifically ask them for an on the record response as to why they are so adamant about destroying us by "curing" us. (Has anyone ever done that?) Does AS know that Aspies don't want to be cured or that we believe eugenics can only result in eradication?

Once that letter is created, it goes out to everyone and anyone we can get it to and one hopes to find sponsorship. That is where the manpower comes in.

If we can get permission to use Amanda's video skills, creating a video that shows that Aspies, even those who are nonverbal, have something to say and want to say it for themselves, it can be done virally. Especially if it is done with humour and charm.

Everyone here knows someone who has the ability, the time, the wherewithal to get this voice heard and if we simply organized, I believe we would become a force to be reckoned with... or at least ANOTHER voice to be heard, and if we shout loud enough, maybe Autism Speaks wouldn't be seen as speaking for us, when they so obviously don't.

Perhaps a new thread is in order for this conversation. I have no financial resources to contribute, but I would be willing to help with any volunteer work as I am able. How do we want to start this?


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11 Mar 2008, 3:03 pm

morning_after wrote:
I would want to see a cure for those who want to be cured, but I believe that a cure would be forced on those of us that don't want it.

Yes, most of scientifical advances got misused. Very sad.