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TLPG
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06 Apr 2008, 5:43 pm

morning_after wrote:
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On topic: I'm hearing that a lot of parents wanted to yell at the b***h, Morning. Jenny McCarthy is being nominated for Idiot of the Month on my website Wiki.


Where is this website?


http://philsworld.a.wiki-site.com



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06 Apr 2008, 6:38 pm

It's looks like I may have misinterpreted McCarthy's words about her son dying, but that still doesn't excuse her rude behavior.

Here is a transcript of the show with some of the curse words deleted.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/02/lkl.01.html

"
KARP: What we do know is that if you have -- if you get exposed to a vaccine, it's about 1,000th as strong as getting the disease itself. If you get Measles, the chance of getting encephalitis, the chance of getting pneumonia, the chance of getting a severe reaction to the Measles is about 1,000 times more than getting that reaction from vaccine.

GORDON: Those are old data. They are not good data. They were never good data.

KARP: They're excellent data. They've been demonstrated --

MCCARTHY: The fact that they say is rare. I think that Julie Gerberding of the CDC is going to have to eat her words."

"KARP: If I could just make a comment to this, which is that the cost to our society during the Polio epidemic that we had, during the -- from the cases of Meningitis that you and I saw when we were doing our training, the cost to the society, the financial cost, the human cost is immense. Allow me just to finish this.

MCCARTHY: All right. KARP: Which is that the investment that we make in prevention is -- a dime in prevention saves you a dollar in cure. That's what we want to do with autism. That's what we want to do with infectious diseases as well. Immunizations are a boon to children, a boon to family --

MCCARTHY: We get that they're saving lives, but the increase is ridiculous, you guys. Look, it's plain and simple. It's bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED)."

"MCCARTHY: My son died in front of me due to a vaccine injury. And there are many -- every week I get a picture of a dead child.

KING: You lost a son?

MCCARTHY: Evan died in front of me for two minutes, cardiac arrest. Every week, I get a picture sent to me of a child that died following a vaccination.

(CROSS TALK)

MCCARTHY: Are we considered acceptable losses?

KARP: Jenny, let's bring it down just a notch for a second here. When we look at autism, 75 percent of kids with autism, there's demonstrated change that the child has in the first year of life before they get to this period when they're getting the Mumps, Measles vaccine.

MCCARTHY: Give me Mumps and Measles. I'll take that way over autism any day."

"TAYLOE: There have been 14 studies, MMR, Mercury --

MCCARTHY: Are they independent studies? No.

KING: She would take Measles.

TAYLOE: This is the best medical evidence.

MCCARTHY: In a heart beat. In a heart beat I'll take it. You know how many parents would? Let me just shift for a second because I want to get this out. Let's go on to ingredients, you guys. Ingredients, Mercury, Aluminum, antifreeze.

KARP: There's more in the environment than there are in vaccines by far.

MCCARTHY: These are OK? It's OK to inject it into a baby?

TAYLOE: We're injecting -- this is a direct --

KARP: Ninety percent of the mercury is out. "


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morning_after
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06 Apr 2008, 6:40 pm

Roxas_XIII wrote:
So they'll let Mccarthy b***h moan and complain about vaccines and autism, yet when one of our own has a chance to be interviewed and show his side of the story (I am referring to Alex's proposed interview), they pull the segment off the air? Somebody f***ing shoot the manager at CNN. This whole incident and this whole biased debate reeks of conspiracy.


I suspect that if Alex was interviewed he might have been attacked.


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morning_after
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06 Apr 2008, 6:43 pm

Tetraquartz wrote:
morning_after wrote:
I'm sorry to see that you experienced that.

I'm more the type that when that happened to me in the past, I would shout them down, win lose, or draw.

And to DW, sorry if my posts came off the wrong way to you. I was a little upset by the way the lady acted before that, so anything she said for the last half might have been misinterpreted.

I don't mind pro-cure people at all, even though i don't agree with them. Everyone is bound to have different beliefs. I just think we need to be able to share our beliefs about everything without being shouted down (see above). I think everyone's beliefs, no matter whether or not we agree with them, have an equal right to be respected.


It's one of those things that if it happens unexpectedly, I don't know how to react. I just go blank. If I expect it, then I probably already have the right script in mind, and act that way. I have a myriad of personalities to put on and be, depending on the situation. That's how I operate in the real world. It's an act.

However on other occasions, you can be sure I did a lot of shouting when it came to trying to get my daughter accommodated. They weren't honest with me, for one thing. Not that it did much good to shout. The people in that district are quite stubborn in their ways, even when you point out something valid. The only time they take action is when they get threatened with legal action, but then they are quick to backslide to where they were before, because they are convinced they are right, and I'm just another stupid misguided parent in need of medicating. Which isn't true.

I haven't had much exposure to people with significant autistic traits, in real life. So, I don't always know what parents are dealing with when they have kids with autism to that degree. I tend to go around not really looking outside my own spaceship that is my consciousness, heh, for lack of a better term, I too often look out at the world through a porthole, so to speak. So often my opinions might be a bit limited.

Anyway, I'm disappointed that CNN did not give the potential interview with Alex any airtime. They are supposed to be unbiased. But unfortunately there's a lot of bias out there.


What do you think about McCarthy's idea that she can speak for the autism community.


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06 Apr 2008, 6:44 pm

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

trying not to go crazy............................... but have made my mind up and just had first meeting, starting up first action rights groups here in NZ - if interested in joining pm me :wink:

Feel better already, highly recommend doing some think, my list of frustrated people here is growing fast and the main National autism society here are like card broad cut outs of Jenny!! !


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06 Apr 2008, 6:44 pm

Pepperfire wrote:
Roxas_XIII wrote:
So they'll let Mccarthy b***h moan and complain about vaccines and autism, yet when one of our own has a chance to be interviewed and show his side of the story (I am referring to Alex's proposed interview), they pull the segment off the air? Somebody f***ing shoot the manager at CNN. This whole incident and this whole biased debate reeks of conspiracy.


Alex is cute, but Jenny is a playboy centerfold. Which one do YOU think is going to get bigger viewer numbers?


i imagine a lot of feminists would love to see Alex show the guts to take on McCarthy.


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06 Apr 2008, 6:46 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
morning_after wrote:
This is something I found myself wondering as I watched the show: Has she said anything that indicates she feels responsible for her sons autism? or that she feels she is blamed?

I was just curious, because I got that impression from her a little.


I think parents often blame themselves for things that have affected their children, at least a little, so given that she beleives her child's condition is vaccine related, it wouldn't surpise me if she does blame her self to some degree. Especially here in CA, where there has been enough discussion for enough years on whether or not to vaccinate that most parents do feel they are making a conscious choice to follow the protocol.


But still someone needs to point out that it's not their fault.


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06 Apr 2008, 6:49 pm

NewportBeachDude wrote:
morning_after wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
morning_after wrote:

And to DW, sorry if my posts came off the wrong way to you. I was a little upset by the way the lady acted before that, so anything she said for the last half might have been misinterpreted.


No need to apologize. You've cleared it up well, above.

Sometimes we simply need to challenge each other a bit to make sure we're all talking about the same thing.


What did you think about the show?



The show rocked. Jenny had them on their toes. And, to set the record straight on a few things, she did not use a lot of bad language. She said 'bullshit' one time, which is modest for her because she's much more blunt in person. She only said that when a doctor claimed themerisol had been removed from vaccines because it's not true and frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing that lie. Every parent who's taken their kids to get the 5 required DTaP shots knows it. The shot is for Diptheria, Pertusis and Tetanus. The themerisol/mercury is still in it as a preservative for the multi-dose Tetanus. It is present in trace amounts in the single dose, but not as a preservative. It's also present in the flu shots, which babies get as well.

Also, what everyone on Larry King's panel agreed upon was that nobody supports banning vaccines. So, for those who are saying Jenny is anti-vaccine, you're dead wrong. She is not. They all agreed vaccines play an important role in life. However, the debate comes into play when you discuss how, when, where, why the kids should get the vaccines like a one-size, fits-all thing and whether or not the combination vaccines should be broken up and/or multiples should be given in one day.

A modified vaccine schedule doesn't mean the child goes without vaccines. All it means is that they are spaced out differently. My youngest kid is on a modified schedule, but still pretty much had all of his shots on time for school. So, nobody should be against it. As long as the kids get the shots, who cares whether they're given over a few extra months? Bundling shots is not for any health benefit. It is a convenience factor. That's the only reason for the combo shots because it's easier and quicker for the doctor.


Ok, I might be missing something, but I don't think anyone said she was anti-vaccine.

Do you think she does any good for the autistic community behaving as rude as she was, which goes beyond whether or not she cursed? I think that if this is nice for her she really needs to tone it down. No one listens to people that come off as antagonistic to them.


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06 Apr 2008, 6:53 pm

morning_after wrote:
It's looks like I may have misinterpreted McCarthy's words about her son dying, but that still doesn't excuse her rude behavior.

Here is a transcript of the show with some of the curse words deleted.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/02/lkl.01.html

"
KARP: What we do know is that if you have -- if you get exposed to a vaccine, it's about 1,000th as strong as getting the disease itself. If you get Measles, the chance of getting encephalitis, the chance of getting pneumonia, the chance of getting a severe reaction to the Measles is about 1,000 times more than getting that reaction from vaccine.

GORDON: Those are old data. They are not good data. They were never good data.

KARP: They're excellent data. They've been demonstrated --

MCCARTHY: The fact that they say is rare. I think that Julie Gerberding of the CDC is going to have to eat her words."

"KARP: If I could just make a comment to this, which is that the cost to our society during the Polio epidemic that we had, during the -- from the cases of Meningitis that you and I saw when we were doing our training, the cost to the society, the financial cost, the human cost is immense. Allow me just to finish this.

MCCARTHY: All right. KARP: Which is that the investment that we make in prevention is -- a dime in prevention saves you a dollar in cure. That's what we want to do with autism. That's what we want to do with infectious diseases as well. Immunizations are a boon to children, a boon to family --

MCCARTHY: We get that they're saving lives, but the increase is ridiculous, you guys. Look, it's plain and simple. It's bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED)."

"MCCARTHY: My son died in front of me due to a vaccine injury. And there are many -- every week I get a picture of a dead child.

KING: You lost a son?

MCCARTHY: Evan died in front of me for two minutes, cardiac arrest. Every week, I get a picture sent to me of a child that died following a vaccination.

(CROSS TALK)

MCCARTHY: Are we considered acceptable losses?

KARP: Jenny, let's bring it down just a notch for a second here. When we look at autism, 75 percent of kids with autism, there's demonstrated change that the child has in the first year of life before they get to this period when they're getting the Mumps, Measles vaccine.

MCCARTHY: Give me Mumps and Measles. I'll take that way over autism any day."

"TAYLOE: There have been 14 studies, MMR, Mercury --

MCCARTHY: Are they independent studies? No.

KING: She would take Measles.

TAYLOE: This is the best medical evidence.

MCCARTHY: In a heart beat. In a heart beat I'll take it. You know how many parents would? Let me just shift for a second because I want to get this out. Let's go on to ingredients, you guys. Ingredients, Mercury, Aluminum, antifreeze.

KARP: There's more in the environment than there are in vaccines by far.

MCCARTHY: These are OK? It's OK to inject it into a baby?

TAYLOE: We're injecting -- this is a direct --

KARP: Ninety percent of the mercury is out. "



Yes. The expletive that was deleted was the only one I heard which was "bullshit." But, I think that transcript has been abridged by the network a bit. It seems like there's a lot of dialogue left out.

And, she clearly says her son died of cardiac arrest. I knew from the book it was a seizure that put him there. Poor kid. He looks great now.

She's abrasive, no doubt. But, here's a mother taking on four highly, respected doctors and I think she did a good job. If you think she was bad there, you should some of the ordinary moms (including my wife) of Autistic kids in their IEPs. See what these moms are like when they have to go up against a district and room full of "authorities" telling them they're going to cut their kids services. They can be just as bold when they have to fight for their kids.



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06 Apr 2008, 6:55 pm

TLPG wrote:
morning_after wrote:
TLPG wrote:
On topic: I'm hearing that a lot of parents wanted to yell at the b***h, Morning. Jenny McCarthy is being nominated for Idiot of the Month on my website Wiki.


Where is this website?


http://philsworld.a.wiki-site.com


Ok, that site says she's anti-cure. On Larry King she said she wasn't, but that she wanted the schedule revised.


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06 Apr 2008, 6:57 pm

asplanet wrote:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

trying not to go crazy............................... but have made my mind up and just had first meeting, starting up first action rights groups here in NZ - if interested in joining pm me :wink:

Feel better already, highly recommend doing some think, my list of frustrated people here is growing fast and the main National autism society here are like card broad cut outs of Jenny!! !


Do you feel like they don't listen to you?


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06 Apr 2008, 6:58 pm

morning_after wrote:
asplanet wrote:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

trying not to go crazy............................... but have made my mind up and just had first meeting, starting up first action rights groups here in NZ - if interested in joining pm me :wink:

Feel better already, highly recommend doing some think, my list of frustrated people here is growing fast and the main National autism society here are like card broad cut outs of Jenny!! !


Do you feel like they don't listen to you?


I've found them super helpful in my experience!! Lots of books and support and stuff...


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06 Apr 2008, 7:00 pm

NewportBeachDude wrote:
morning_after wrote:
It's looks like I may have misinterpreted McCarthy's words about her son dying, but that still doesn't excuse her rude behavior.

Here is a transcript of the show with some of the curse words deleted.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/02/lkl.01.html

"
KARP: What we do know is that if you have -- if you get exposed to a vaccine, it's about 1,000th as strong as getting the disease itself. If you get Measles, the chance of getting encephalitis, the chance of getting pneumonia, the chance of getting a severe reaction to the Measles is about 1,000 times more than getting that reaction from vaccine.

GORDON: Those are old data. They are not good data. They were never good data.

KARP: They're excellent data. They've been demonstrated --

MCCARTHY: The fact that they say is rare. I think that Julie Gerberding of the CDC is going to have to eat her words."

"KARP: If I could just make a comment to this, which is that the cost to our society during the Polio epidemic that we had, during the -- from the cases of Meningitis that you and I saw when we were doing our training, the cost to the society, the financial cost, the human cost is immense. Allow me just to finish this.

MCCARTHY: All right. KARP: Which is that the investment that we make in prevention is -- a dime in prevention saves you a dollar in cure. That's what we want to do with autism. That's what we want to do with infectious diseases as well. Immunizations are a boon to children, a boon to family --

MCCARTHY: We get that they're saving lives, but the increase is ridiculous, you guys. Look, it's plain and simple. It's bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED)."

"MCCARTHY: My son died in front of me due to a vaccine injury. And there are many -- every week I get a picture of a dead child.

KING: You lost a son?

MCCARTHY: Evan died in front of me for two minutes, cardiac arrest. Every week, I get a picture sent to me of a child that died following a vaccination.

(CROSS TALK)

MCCARTHY: Are we considered acceptable losses?

KARP: Jenny, let's bring it down just a notch for a second here. When we look at autism, 75 percent of kids with autism, there's demonstrated change that the child has in the first year of life before they get to this period when they're getting the Mumps, Measles vaccine.

MCCARTHY: Give me Mumps and Measles. I'll take that way over autism any day."

"TAYLOE: There have been 14 studies, MMR, Mercury --

MCCARTHY: Are they independent studies? No.

KING: She would take Measles.

TAYLOE: This is the best medical evidence.

MCCARTHY: In a heart beat. In a heart beat I'll take it. You know how many parents would? Let me just shift for a second because I want to get this out. Let's go on to ingredients, you guys. Ingredients, Mercury, Aluminum, antifreeze.

KARP: There's more in the environment than there are in vaccines by far.

MCCARTHY: These are OK? It's OK to inject it into a baby?

TAYLOE: We're injecting -- this is a direct --

KARP: Ninety percent of the mercury is out. "



Yes. The expletive that was deleted was the only one I heard which was "bullshit." But, I think that transcript has been abridged by the network a bit. It seems like there's a lot of dialogue left out.

And, she clearly says her son died of cardiac arrest. I knew from the book it was a seizure that put him there. Poor kid. He looks great now.

She's abrasive, no doubt. But, here's a mother taking on four highly, respected doctors and I think she did a good job. If you think she was bad there, you should some of the ordinary moms (including my wife) of Autistic kids in their IEPs. See what these moms are like when they have to go up against a district and room full of "authorities" telling them they're going to cut their kids services. They can be just as bold when they have to fight for their kids.


Well, for one it still makes it harder to get heard.

But another is that your wife is not on national tv, claiming to be an advocate for the entire autistic community, is she?

To be honest, no matter how upset I have gotten with people (and my family and I have been in situations like the one you talk about your wife being in), I don't think I was ever abrasive unless pushed a lot more.


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06 Apr 2008, 7:03 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
morning_after wrote:
asplanet wrote:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

trying not to go crazy............................... but have made my mind up and just had first meeting, starting up first action rights groups here in NZ - if interested in joining pm me :wink:

Feel better already, highly recommend doing some think, my list of frustrated people here is growing fast and the main National autism society here are like card broad cut outs of Jenny!! !


Do you feel like they don't listen to you?


I've found them super helpful in my experience!! Lots of books and support and stuff...


Have you ever felt like you had to challenge them, though? And if so, did they listen to you?


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06 Apr 2008, 7:30 pm

Not really. I've mostly used them as a resource centre for getting hold of books etc and the occasional support need. I don't use them often though as my parents work in the autism field so are like mini libraries themselves, which obviously helps. I've never had any problems with them though - all they've done is point me in the right direction and give me guidance when necessary.


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06 Apr 2008, 7:30 pm

morning_after wrote:
What do you think about McCarthy's idea that she can speak for the autism community.


The whole autism community? But she's not autistic. I seem to get from her that she believes all autism is generated by additives in vaccines, and all we have to do is do what she did, and there's the answer to autism.

Like what others have said, using the word "autism" is such a broad term, that it can be interpreted in many different ways. Autism, and autism, and... autism. Three and more kinds, and maybe only one word for them all.

So, to a parent who is struggling with a screaming, combative child, they are looking for some hope, somewhere, sometimes just anywhere they can find it.
Like for example my nephew, who flipped out because he spilled his drink into his dinner, and when she tried to clean it up, and calm him, he threw his mother, my sister in law, down a flight of stairs. (She was only bruised but if could have been much worse, she could have broken her neck)
My brother is one of those parents who supports Autism Speaks, and I don't, but I can't argue with his desire to at least see his son be able to be reasoned with, without losing his extraordinary artistic talents that he suspect autism gave his son. My brother and sister in law don't have a problem with their son being eccentric, they are just not wanting to see him panic or lose his temper and bust someone's chops because something was moved out of place or a sudden noise set him off. He's a big, strong kid. He's now in a group home and is doing very well, last I heard. His picture at Christmas, he was looking at the camera and smiling. I was very happy to see this. I've never met him, so I don't know him personally, but he is such a talented artist, his work has been shown and sold in NYC galleries. As an artist, I say that's an excellent accomplishment)
My brother is likely on the spectrum and I suspect my sister in law, as well. So they don't want to eradicate autism, they just want to "cure" their son of those serious problems so that he can be their son.

As for me, I enjoy my Aspieness. Yes, it has caused me much pain at times. But life is difficult as it is. For NTs, they struggle with a number of thigs. Autie-Aspies struggle with other things. I hae finally come to liking me as I am again, and not being scared of people who want to change me, but telling them to leave me be and not feel guilty.

Sorry, I'm digressing quite a bit... trying to get all these thoughts compressed into a readable few paragraphs.

Back to Ms. McCarthy, who shares a last name with a Mr. McCarthy who in the 50s ran a witch hunt for Communists and their sympathizers and blackballed a lot of people from their careers... I don't like her manner, is all. That's how I see it. She makes me feel the way I did when I lived in a town full of people just like her, some every bit as famous if not more than she is, whose kids went to the same school mine did, some of whom snapped my head off for my saying I was autistic. Makes my stomach hurt, it does.
Besides, I am suspicious of celebrities who are on what they call a "crusade", because the Crusades involved misguided fanatics causing a lot of shedding of innocent blood.


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