Page 2 of 4 [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Fintan29
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 269
Location: nevada

16 Dec 2008, 2:53 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
An 85% divorce rate among parents of autistic children...?

So my parents divorce IS my fault! All that BS they always say about it not being the kid's fault... but in my case it IS!

Freakin' fabulous.


That's what I thought in my family, especially when it happened 2 months after I was diagnosed.



Mosse
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 428

16 Dec 2008, 9:16 pm

Well they're right, I do have a scrambled brain.


_________________
Wavering and fraying,
The end of existence is near.
Will the demon inside,
End it all?


slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

16 Dec 2008, 9:55 pm

Mosse wrote:
Well they're right, I do have a scrambled brain.


I will admit to this also.



BokeKaeru
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 535
Location: Boston, MA

19 Dec 2008, 2:00 am

...I'm horrified that this got published. Not on a basis of government censorship. More on the basis that if you replaced "autistic" with "gay" or "following a different religion," this probably wouldn't have even gone to press for fear of scandal - or if it had, it would have gotten a much more negative response.

The fact that I can easily see this as being the defense this guy's lawyer will use in court makes it even more sickening.

I'm sorry. Children, with or without autism, can be frustrating, sometimes to extreme degrees. It doesn't give parents a right to kill them. People who shake their babies to make them stop screaming go to jail as murderers. People who kill their autistic kids for not being "normal" are just as bad.



BelindatheNobody
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,257
Location: Westfield

19 Dec 2008, 11:58 am

article wrote:
scrambled brain


What, our brains are made of eggs, or something?
...
I don't like eggs. :x


....
Anyhow, the article is disgusting. It sort of makes me want to go pour bleach in my eyes.


_________________
They leave behind so many shadows. This substance in time forced into life,
still exists because it's here: living in me, living in all the memories, in my life.
Lost inside blank infinity.

Flavors of: Nobody. Slytherin. Autistic.


Touretter
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 370

20 Dec 2008, 1:00 am

The murderer mentioned in the article reminds me of my own father. When I was younger, he'd blame my mother for being too soft with me. In fact she'd sometimes have to shield me from his violent rages. Awile back my father even choked me. My mother and sister had to come to my rescue. I just try to ignore him, and stay out of his way. I know that I can't be alone with him, lest he try to start a fight with me. It's too bad that fathers can't just leave us alone at least.



protest_the_hero
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Age: 182
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,011

20 Dec 2008, 8:46 pm

Zaraki wrote:
Lene wrote:
"Autism is a maddening disorder of scrambled brain development that can lead some parents to snap,"

I'm really tempted to make this quote my signature... it's so hilariously stupid.
Can i have it too?

Nazi's will be Nazi's.
it's true. not aspergers like i have but LFA. it's true



MemberSix
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 606

21 Dec 2008, 7:44 am

What's sad is that so far on this thread, everyone's taken a very partisan, anti-NT position - like the continuation of some sick war against non-Autistics.

I understand (but don't sympathise with) the bitterness that a lifetime of victimisation and exclusion can cause - but Autism is no more the fault of NT's than it is of AS'ers.

These cases are very sad.
Yes, what was done was wrong - but more than that, it was tragic.
These fathers are not gratuitous killers who get pleasure from inflicting suffering - they are in most cases, Aspies who after a lifetime of very difficult parenting, face the prospect of bankrupcy - and crack under the pressure.

I'd like to see how you'd handle being the parent of an Autistic child in those same circumstances.

Judge not, lest thee be judged thyself.
Walk a mile in my shoes, etc.

The wilful disunderstanding demonstrated here beggars belief.



Firegirl531
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 38
Location: Under a freakin' rock

22 Dec 2008, 7:16 am

MemberSix wrote:
What's sad is that so far on this thread, everyone's taken a very partisan, anti-NT position - like the continuation of some sick war against non-Autistics.

I understand (but don't sympathise with) the bitterness that a lifetime of victimisation and exclusion can cause - but Autism is no more the fault of NT's than it is of AS'ers.

These cases are very sad.
Yes, what was done was wrong - but more than that, it was tragic.
These fathers are not gratuitous killers who get pleasure from inflicting suffering - they are in most cases, Aspies who after a lifetime of very difficult parenting, face the prospect of bankrupcy - and crack under the pressure.

I'd like to see how you'd handle being the parent of an Autistic child in those same circumstances....


So what; you believe that this little kid's murder was justified then? Or are you within the author's point of view?

I believe that the point that most are making in this thread is that the language that the author who wrote the article is implying that those with [even HFA or AS] autism are exclusively the problem when any sort of violence like this happens; that the adults themselves have no responsibility when it comes to finding additional support for themselves as well as their children, especially when they may be drained emotionally.

In my developmental psychology class, my professor had mentioned that children (be them "normal" or "disabled") where difficult, nothing will change that; but as adults/caretakers/what-have-you it is our responsibility to create boundries and suck up our pride to do what is right by the children!

Do I think that what happened was tragic?

Yes. It was horrible; and I feel sorry that the father was having such a hard time...

...But on the other hand; Safe Place, foster care- hell even dropping the kid off at a neighbor's house or the sparsely populated support for mothers of autistics mother's house would have been better than shooting the poor boy up.

But now all we can do is wonder the "should haves", can we?



MemberSix
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 606

22 Dec 2008, 7:38 am

Firegirl531 wrote:
MemberSix wrote:
What's sad is that so far on this thread, everyone's taken a very partisan, anti-NT position - like the continuation of some sick war against non-Autistics.

I understand (but don't sympathise with) the bitterness that a lifetime of victimisation and exclusion can cause - but Autism is no more the fault of NT's than it is of AS'ers.

These cases are very sad.
Yes, what was done was wrong - but more than that, it was tragic.
These fathers are not gratuitous killers who get pleasure from inflicting suffering - they are in most cases, Aspies who after a lifetime of very difficult parenting, face the prospect of bankrupcy - and crack under the pressure.

I'd like to see how you'd handle being the parent of an Autistic child in those same circumstances....


So what; you believe that this little kid's murder was justified then?

Read the entirity of my original post.
Firegirl531 wrote:
Or are you within the author's point of view?
I didn't really GET a sense of a POV.
Firegirl531 wrote:
I believe that the point that most are making in this thread is that the language that the author who wrote the article is implying that those with [even HFA or AS] autism are exclusively the problem when any sort of violence like this happens;

There you go with the chip-shouldered persecution complex, again.
Firegirl531 wrote:
that the adults themselves have no responsibility when it comes to finding additional support for themselves as well as their children, especially when they may be drained emotionally.

In my developmental psychology class, my professor had mentioned that children (be them "normal" or "disabled") where difficult, nothing will change that; but as adults/caretakers/what-have-you it is our responsibility to create boundries and suck up our pride to do what is right by the children!

Do I think that what happened was tragic?

Yes. It was horrible; and I feel sorry that the father was having such a hard time...

...But on the other hand; Safe Place, foster care- hell even dropping the kid off at a neighbor's house or the sparsely populated support for mothers of autistics mother's house would have been better than shooting the poor boy up.

Of course.
But why do you assume that the parents have access to such support ?
Why do you assume that parents are left sufficiently up-together (by the hefty demands of Autistic childcare) to be able to find out about the need for care-giver self-care, monitor themselves and access the necessary services required to maintain it ?

I don't think you have a clue about life in the real world, do you ?

You criticise from the pampered comfort of your easy life, to indulge that chip on your shoulder.
Sick.



Firegirl531
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 38
Location: Under a freakin' rock

22 Dec 2008, 9:28 am

MemberSix wrote:
Firegirl531 wrote:
MemberSix wrote:
What's sad is that so far on this thread, everyone's taken a very partisan, anti-NT position - like the continuation of some sick war against non-Autistics.

I understand (but don't sympathise with) the bitterness that a lifetime of victimisation and exclusion can cause - but Autism is no more the fault of NT's than it is of AS'ers.

These cases are very sad.
Yes, what was done was wrong - but more than that, it was tragic.
These fathers are not gratuitous killers who get pleasure from inflicting suffering - they are in most cases, Aspies who after a lifetime of very difficult parenting, face the prospect of bankrupcy - and crack under the pressure.

I'd like to see how you'd handle being the parent of an Autistic child in those same circumstances....


So what; you believe that this little kid's murder was justified then?

MemberSix wrote:
Read the entirity of my original post.
I apologize. That statement was inappropriate.
MemberSix wrote:

Firegirl531 wrote:
Or are you within the author's point of view?
I didn't really GET a sense of a POV.
Firegirl531 wrote:
I believe that the point that most are making in this thread is that the language that the author who wrote the article is implying that those with [even HFA or AS] autism are exclusively the problem when any sort of violence like this happens;

MemberSix wrote:
There you go with the chip-shouldered persecution complex, again.
I never said anything about those who are autistic are persecuted; reread:I believe that the point that most are making in this thread... though it's ironic that you said that because...
MemberSix wrote:
Firegirl531 wrote:
that the adults themselves have no responsibility when it comes to finding additional support for themselves as well as their children, especially when they may be drained emotionally.

In my developmental psychology class, my professor had mentioned that children (be them "normal" or "disabled") where difficult, nothing will change that; but as adults/caretakers/what-have-you it is our responsibility to create boundries and suck up our pride to do what is right by the children!

Do I think that what happened was tragic?

Yes. It was horrible; and I feel sorry that the father was having such a hard time...

...But on the other hand; Safe Place, foster care- hell even dropping the kid off at a neighbor's house or the sparsely populated support for mothers of autistics mother's house would have been better than shooting the poor boy up.

MemberSix wrote:
Of course.
But why do you assume that the parents have access to such support ?
Why do you assume that parents are left sufficiently up-together (by the hefty demands of Autistic childcare) to be able to find out about the need for care-giver self-care, monitor themselves and access the necessary services required to maintain it ?
...You then mention this. So I can technically say that the whiney "they didn't know...they were under too much pressure" is such an overdone, sack of $hi+ (and really it is; if I had a nickle...).
MemberSix wrote:
MemberSix wrote:
I don't think you have a clue about life in the real world, do you ?

You criticise from the pampered comfort of your easy life, to indulge that chip on your shoulder.
Sick.

Yes dear. I'm pampered because I know that such services as foster care and Safe Place are free and available in...oh- ALL 50 STATES (in all Tops, most bus services, Domino's pizza,for anyone who may want/need info IM me for more details (bloody thing won't let me post sites) )!

I personally don't care if the parents were living in a plastic bin; that's no excuse to shoot a kid. It is the parent's responsibility (main word here. if you make the baby and choose to keep it is your responsibility to care for it AND yourself: it's called being an adult) to protect their children and to say that "the hefty demands of Autistic childcare" prevented them from taking a step back and deciding that "little Johnny" should at least be dropped off at a police station or CPS before things got out of hand; is...well it's no better than if I, after being scolded by my profs, parents, and boss one too many times, pushed my car off a cliff because it broke down one too many times. And furthermore, the family HAD neighbors, and lived in the city; so they DAMN well could've dropped him off SOMEWHERE relatively safe if push came to shove. Your strawman argument is thrown in the fire. :evil:



MemberSix
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 606

22 Dec 2008, 12:06 pm

Firegirl531 wrote:
MemberSix wrote:
Firegirl531 wrote:
MemberSix wrote:
What's sad is that so far on this thread, everyone's taken a very partisan, anti-NT position - like the continuation of some sick war against non-Autistics.

I understand (but don't sympathise with) the bitterness that a lifetime of victimisation and exclusion can cause - but Autism is no more the fault of NT's than it is of AS'ers.

These cases are very sad.
Yes, what was done was wrong - but more than that, it was tragic.
These fathers are not gratuitous killers who get pleasure from inflicting suffering - they are in most cases, Aspies who after a lifetime of very difficult parenting, face the prospect of bankrupcy - and crack under the pressure.

I'd like to see how you'd handle being the parent of an Autistic child in those same circumstances....


So what; you believe that this little kid's murder was justified then?

MemberSix wrote:
Read the entirity of my original post.
I apologize. That statement was inappropriate.
MemberSix wrote:

Firegirl531 wrote:
Or are you within the author's point of view?
I didn't really GET a sense of a POV.
Firegirl531 wrote:
I believe that the point that most are making in this thread is that the language that the author who wrote the article is implying that those with [even HFA or AS] autism are exclusively the problem when any sort of violence like this happens;

MemberSix wrote:
There you go with the chip-shouldered persecution complex, again.
I never said anything about those who are autistic are persecuted; reread:I believe that the point that most are making in this thread... though it's ironic that you said that because...
MemberSix wrote:
Firegirl531 wrote:
that the adults themselves have no responsibility when it comes to finding additional support for themselves as well as their children, especially when they may be drained emotionally.

In my developmental psychology class, my professor had mentioned that children (be them "normal" or "disabled") where difficult, nothing will change that; but as adults/caretakers/what-have-you it is our responsibility to create boundries and suck up our pride to do what is right by the children!

Do I think that what happened was tragic?

Yes. It was horrible; and I feel sorry that the father was having such a hard time...

...But on the other hand; Safe Place, foster care- hell even dropping the kid off at a neighbor's house or the sparsely populated support for mothers of autistics mother's house would have been better than shooting the poor boy up.

MemberSix wrote:
Of course.
But why do you assume that the parents have access to such support ?
Why do you assume that parents are left sufficiently up-together (by the hefty demands of Autistic childcare) to be able to find out about the need for care-giver self-care, monitor themselves and access the necessary services required to maintain it ?
...You then mention this. So I can technically say that the whiney "they didn't know...they were under too much pressure" is such an overdone, sack of $hi+ (and really it is; if I had a nickle...).
MemberSix wrote:
MemberSix wrote:
I don't think you have a clue about life in the real world, do you ?

You criticise from the pampered comfort of your easy life, to indulge that chip on your shoulder.
Sick.

Yes dear. I'm pampered because I know that such services as foster care and Safe Place are free and available in...oh- ALL 50 STATES (in all Tops, most bus services, Domino's pizza,for anyone who may want/need info IM me for more details (bloody thing won't let me post sites) )!

I personally don't care if the parents were living in a plastic bin; that's no excuse to shoot a kid. It is the parent's responsibility (main word here. if you make the baby and choose to keep it is your responsibility to care for it AND yourself: it's called being an adult) to protect their children and to say that "the hefty demands of Autistic childcare" prevented them from taking a step back and deciding that "little Johnny" should at least be dropped off at a police station or CPS before things got out of hand; is...well it's no better than if I, after being scolded by my profs, parents, and boss one too many times, pushed my car off a cliff because it broke down one too many times. And furthermore, the family HAD neighbors, and lived in the city; so they DAMN well could've dropped him off SOMEWHERE relatively safe if push came to shove. Your strawman argument is thrown in the fire. :evil:

Hardly an argument, just an observation that you speak from a much easier position than the parents in question.

Your efforts to over-simplify a complex situation are evidence that you seek only to grind your persecution axe on the stone of a family tragedy.

You speak as if it were a simple choice between dropping the boy off at the Police station and shooting him dead.

What about the parents' possible perception that handing him over to social services (if you have such things in the good 'ole USA) might bring into question their suitability to raise their other children - and the associated risk of having them listed as 'at risk' and taken away ?

What about the idea that the father tried until the final breaking point, to be the best dad he could - perhaps not realising how close he was to doing what he did ?

I'm sure you have a trite answer for these questions - but we live in the real world, where nothing is perfect.

And to condemn people who were doing their best under difficult circumstances against your idealised notions of perfect parenting, seems rigidly judgmental.

Why not try exercising a bit of compassion and find a more appropriate outlet for your chip-shouldered crusading ?



Firegirl531
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 38
Location: Under a freakin' rock

22 Dec 2008, 1:13 pm

To be frank, I believe that it is you, Member Six, that is the judgmental one as you are the only one who is doing the personal attacks here. But in order to prevent a potential flame war from breaking out...

::takes slow deep breath::

Well, then fine. If I am, to quote you anyway, a sick, compassion-less, judgmental person; then tell me: what are your thoughts on the matter? Other than stating the obvious: that it was a horrible event (which it was). What sentence, if any, do you believe the father and/or mother should get and why?



MemberSix
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 606

22 Dec 2008, 1:40 pm

Firegirl531 wrote:
To be frank, I believe that it is you, Member Six, that is the judgmental one as you are the only one who is doing the personal attacks here.

Personal attacks ?
Why not have done with it and call me a troll ? (the last resort of the lost)
Firegirl531 wrote:
But in order to prevent a potential flame war from breaking out...
I think this line says more about your attitude than my own.
Firegirl531 wrote:
::takes slow deep breath::

Well, then fine. If I am, to quote you anyway, a sick, compassion-less, judgmental person; then tell me: what are your thoughts on the matter? Other than stating the obvious: that it was a horrible event

It didn't seem that obvious to you.
Your original reaction appeared to be one of outrage at this tragic occurrence.

Firegirl531 wrote:
(which it was). What sentence, if any, do you believe the father and/or mother should get and why?

I have no wish to pass comment on punishment in a very sad case.



Firegirl531
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 38
Location: Under a freakin' rock

22 Dec 2008, 2:25 pm

MemberSix wrote:
Firegirl531 wrote:
To be frank, I believe that it is you, Member Six, that is the judgmental one as you are the only one who is doing the personal attacks here.

Personal attacks ?
Why not have done with it and call me a troll ? (the last resort of the lost)
Firegirl531 wrote:
But in order to prevent a potential flame war from breaking out...
I think this line says more about your attitude than my own.
Firegirl531 wrote:
::takes slow deep breath::

Well, then fine. If I am, to quote you anyway, a sick, compassion-less, judgmental person; then tell me: what are your thoughts on the matter? Other than stating the obvious: that it was a horrible event

It didn't seem that obvious to you.
Your original reaction appeared to be one of outrage at this tragic occurrence.

Firegirl531 wrote:
(which it was). What sentence, if any, do you believe the father and/or mother should get and why?

I have no wish to pass comment on punishment in a very sad case.


Actually, my initial reaction was that:
Quote:
"Yes. It was horrible; and I feel sorry that the father was having such a hard time..."


My SECONDARY reaction was:
Quote:
"...Safe Place, foster care- hell even dropping the kid off at a neighbor's house or the sparsely populated support for mothers of autistics mother's house would have been better than shooting the poor boy up."


If you remember correctly, it was you who had began the insults and such. I admit that I had said my share as well but the difference is, I apologized for the comment that I made:
Quote:
"So what; you believe that this little kid's murder was justified then?.... "I apologize. That statement was inappropriate."
You, however, continued to make judgments; ergo, if you choose to call yourself a troll, it may be because you may believe that you are acting as such.

The fact that you choose not to comment on the topic at hand, yet instead criticize the posters for having
Quote:
"taken a very partisan, anti-NT position - like the continuation of some sick war against non-Autistics. "
kinda supports this, in a way.

But of course, that is my opinion.



MemberSix
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 606

22 Dec 2008, 2:37 pm

Firegirl531 wrote:
The fact that you choose not to comment on the topic at hand, yet instead criticize the posters for having
Quote:
"taken a very partisan, anti-NT position - like the continuation of some sick war against non-Autistics. "
.

I criticised the partisan stance because political axe-grinding is totally inappropriate in such tragic circumstances.

Why are you questioning my right to express justified disgust at this ?

And how is my right to express my disgust in any way at odds with my refusal to join in the discussion of the parents' punishment/s ?