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aspiemike
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10 Apr 2021, 5:59 pm

ironpony wrote:
But there are no laws in the legal system that says a company cannot develop its own vaccine as long as they have proper doctors, is there?


Yet Trudeau wanted his vaccines from China, which was the reason the Canadian businesses were shot down. And those vaccines from China ended up in Peru instead.
And we all know how good the Sino-Canadian relationship is at the moment. I wish I was making this stuff up.

Now we have a Government that took vaccines alloted for third world countries to vaccinate our own population. On top of that, some health officials have recommended against the astrazenica vaccine given to us by the States pending further research or recommended restrictions to certain age groups.


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ironpony
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10 Apr 2021, 10:41 pm

Oh okay but why didn't Trudeau want Canada to help make vaccines, what's the real reason? The one mentioned before just seems kind of vague, like there is probably more to it, than people let on?



aspiemike
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11 Apr 2021, 8:35 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay but why didn't Trudeau want Canada to help make vaccines, what's the real reason? The one mentioned before just seems kind of vague, like there is probably more to it, than people let on?


I highly suspect it has to do with a trade agreement with China dating back to 2014 when Harper was PM . Of course, Trudeau is more of the same crap we got from prior governments when it came to trade deals with other countries as well. Also take into account that companies would rather manufacture goods elsewhere for cheaper than pay 14 dollars per hour min. wage. On top of that, free trade deals offer an opportunity to sue other governments if legislation or decisions made end up harming a company's bottom line. Canada is probably the most sued country under these trade deals. That also means more of our taxpayers money goes into defending ourselves and paying the money owed in the event of a loss.

I grew up in Peterborough. The amount of manufacturing in that city has disappeared significantly since the early 2000s. It really took a turn from what I observed when the 2008 recession hit. My understanding is that GE no longer operates there and I don't know who has taken over the old GE site and to what capacity. Quaker Oats still exists there, but for how much longer? But considering the city used to be a manufacturing city of sorts, they could have brought lots of jobs there if we wanted to manufacture our own vaccines.


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Tim_Tex
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11 Apr 2021, 8:42 am

Definitely good.


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ironpony
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15 Apr 2021, 9:09 am

aspiemike wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay but why didn't Trudeau want Canada to help make vaccines, what's the real reason? The one mentioned before just seems kind of vague, like there is probably more to it, than people let on?


I highly suspect it has to do with a trade agreement with China dating back to 2014 when Harper was PM . Of course, Trudeau is more of the same crap we got from prior governments when it came to trade deals with other countries as well. Also take into account that companies would rather manufacture goods elsewhere for cheaper than pay 14 dollars per hour min. wage. On top of that, free trade deals offer an opportunity to sue other governments if legislation or decisions made end up harming a company's bottom line. Canada is probably the most sued country under these trade deals. That also means more of our taxpayers money goes into defending ourselves and paying the money owed in the event of a loss.

I grew up in Peterborough. The amount of manufacturing in that city has disappeared significantly since the early 2000s. It really took a turn from what I observed when the 2008 recession hit. My understanding is that GE no longer operates there and I don't know who has taken over the old GE site and to what capacity. Quaker Oats still exists there, but for how much longer? But considering the city used to be a manufacturing city of sorts, they could have brought lots of jobs there if we wanted to manufacture our own vaccines.


Doesn't this feel like a conflict of interest though and feel like a stench? China is the one who gave us covid, and we are buying the vaccine from them. That's like say, if someone were to rob a bank, and that bank knows who did it, but they decide to hire the same person to install better security for them, cause they know that person to be a security system expert. Why pay the person who robbed you, to try to fix your problem?



aspiemike
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16 Apr 2021, 11:43 am

ironpony wrote:
aspiemike wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay but why didn't Trudeau want Canada to help make vaccines, what's the real reason? The one mentioned before just seems kind of vague, like there is probably more to it, than people let on?


I highly suspect it has to do with a trade agreement with China dating back to 2014 when Harper was PM . Of course, Trudeau is more of the same crap we got from prior governments when it came to trade deals with other countries as well. Also take into account that companies would rather manufacture goods elsewhere for cheaper than pay 14 dollars per hour min. wage. On top of that, free trade deals offer an opportunity to sue other governments if legislation or decisions made end up harming a company's bottom line. Canada is probably the most sued country under these trade deals. That also means more of our taxpayers money goes into defending ourselves and paying the money owed in the event of a loss.

I grew up in Peterborough. The amount of manufacturing in that city has disappeared significantly since the early 2000s. It really took a turn from what I observed when the 2008 recession hit. My understanding is that GE no longer operates there and I don't know who has taken over the old GE site and to what capacity. Quaker Oats still exists there, but for how much longer? But considering the city used to be a manufacturing city of sorts, they could have brought lots of jobs there if we wanted to manufacture our own vaccines.


Doesn't this feel like a conflict of interest though and feel like a stench? China is the one who gave us covid, and we are buying the vaccine from them. That's like say, if someone were to rob a bank, and that bank knows who did it, but they decide to hire the same person to install better security for them, cause they know that person to be a security system expert. Why pay the person who robbed you, to try to fix your problem?


I'll come back to the free trade argument first to illustrate how weak Canada really looks on the world stage. Ultimately, our trade deals are robbing many people opportunities to make good wages.

Free trade with other countries has been more beneficial for certain companies and individuals, as well as other countries. We have seen GM move jobs elsewhere due to high costs to labor, pensions and benefits. A lot of other companies followed suit. Two of our big 3 automakers were bailed out by our government in 2009 and some of those companies then thanked the taxpayers by moving the jobs elsewhere. When I hear the word bailout, I immediately think of GM and Fiat Chrysler closing up some locations here and moving them where they can pay peanuts to the workers instead. The belief was that these manufacturing jobs were vital to our economy. Look what happened?

Over time, our National wheat board was sold to Saudi Arabian interests by Harper, gun deals made with questionable governments going on for decades, our provincial 407 toll highway owned by Spanish corporations or companies (Mike Harris responsible for this one) and of course our Hydro One is on the stock market with no restrictions on who can purchase the stocks (Kathleen Wynne responsible). We have seen our oil companies in Alberta and Saskatchewan under attack not just by our own environmental activists and lobbyists, but by foreign interests from the States and Saudi Arabia as well. Chinese interests also have some ownership in the Tar Sands in Alberta. On top of that, recently we are now seeing a passive response from our own government into Russia making claims in the Arctic Circle.

Our government has been weak for decades, and finally after 20 years since 9/11, the USA looks like it is being stretched thin world wide with its Armed Forces and defense deals with other countries worldwide. China and Russia are looking very confident right now.


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threetoed snail
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16 Apr 2021, 5:21 pm

I think the important thing about healthcare is for it to be accessible to everyone, especially when it's most needed (emergencies, for example), and crucially, in a way that encourages or at least doesn't discourage people from seeking medical help when it's sensible to do so. I think whether that's implemented as free healthcare or not is secondary, and the best model will depend a lot on the exact circumstances of the country anyway.

We have free healthcare in my country. It's widely understood to be meant for people who don't have private healthcare as a job benefit and can't afford a private plan themselves, but it's technically available to everyone. Government-sponsored things that everyone does use (like vaccines) are offered through the public system. Private plans here typically work exclusively on a monthly-fee basis. Invoicing for medical services happens in the background and doesn't involve the beneficiary. Doctors encourage you to go see them often and tend to focus on prevention / early diagnosis when possible.

Collective dissatisfaction with healthcare here usually revolves around either insufficient funding for public healthcare or insufficient/ineffective regulation for private plans. The system itself as a whole isn't a controversial topic. I think it's actually pretty good, and everyone I know who has lived abroad has complained that the healthcare system abroad where they were living was too inconvenient or too complicated compared to what we're used to here.


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MidnightRose
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17 Apr 2021, 1:52 am

ironpony wrote:
Doesn't this feel like a conflict of interest though and feel like a stench? China is the one who gave us covid, and we are buying the vaccine from them. That's like say, if someone were to rob a bank, and that bank knows who did it, but they decide to hire the same person to install better security for them, cause they know that person to be a security system expert. Why pay the person who robbed you, to try to fix your problem?


Saying China "gave" us covid implies that China deliberately released covid onto the rest of the world. As far as I know, there is no evidence of this. China is a big player in the international market, crippling the global economy hurts them too.



nick007
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17 Apr 2021, 9:52 pm

In my experience free health care can vary quite a lot. I got on SSI after struggling to find my 1s job for a year with no luck at all partly due to my various disabilities. I ended up having a mental breakdown party due to parents on my back & my 1st relationship falling apart. Getting on SSI qualified me for Louisiana state Medicaid but no docs or psychs in my area would accept it due to it not paying them enough. That meant I also had to have private health insurance with copays, deductibles, & it would not cover dental or mental stuff other than meds. About half of my full SSI check was going towards my out of pocket medical stuff & paying for my health insurance. To cut a long story short, I live in Vermont now & I'm on Social Security Disability now & qualify for Medicare & the Medicaid extra help program. The community health center I go to & the hospital here accept Medicare & actually accept Vermont Medicaid. I never had to pay a cent to see a doc here, go to the dentist, see a psychiatrist, get surgery on my nose cuz the inside was crooked, go to the ER, or go to a specialist. I also never had to pay a cent for my health insurance here either. My out of pocket costs for prescribed meds are only a dollar & 30 cents for each prescription. That's a hell of a lot better deal than paying $300 a month for my health insurance & then paying a couple hundred each time I saw my psychiatrist, & then having to pay 20% of the costs each time I saw a doc or had a test done or whatever, all the while I had Louisiana Medicaid that was not paying for anything other than my prescribed meds. What is the point of providing a free health insurance option to disableds when no medical professionals in the area will accept it :scratch:


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