women, testosterone and femininity

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^Note that all of those people are quite beautiful, regardless of androgyny. Beauty generally is perceived in symmetry, not in presence or absence of body hair regardless of gender.
again:
http://izismile.com/2012/04/30/famous_w ... _pics.html
Most of these women still look quite feminine, but some of them could be pretty men. It's not the hair.
This might explain why men make a bigger deal out of body hair than women:
http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org/conten ... r214.short
also:
http://psp.sagepub.com/content/9/3/405

None of those people were 'unattractive.' They might not have been what you consider 'hot,' but your particular turn-ons are not universal and they are all considered attractive enough to be models.
The last 4 were all women, btw.
Wrt. Orlando Bloom: he could play Rachel Maddow in a film adaptation of her.

There are 2 different arguments being had here.

A: The effect of certain hormones on the two genders.

B: Societal perception of what is feminine and masculine.

A: is largely a constant and can be established empirically.

B: Changes and cannot.

In the case of B, however extrapolation can be done of society at large over a period of time, and the correlation of features deemed in category Masculine and category Feminine can be established as being accurate for a majority of the populace throughout history. Of course there will be deviations, however constantly referring to deviations rather than the mean is grasping at things that support your argument, rather than what is productive for the discussion.

I'm sure I can find cultures throughout history where women who all look like Eastern European swimmers or shotputters from the 80s were the beauty standard, and I'm sure I can find cultures where effeminate, girly-men were the beauty standard. However doing so is entirely counter-productive and mostly serves as a defense mechanism for the person making the argument. I can't remember who said it in an unrelated discussion, but it was something like "All the two of you have proven is that you are both good at googling for sources that support your point of view and then declaring yourself the winner of the discussion IE the person being right, because of those sources." If this is the methodology you desire to use, you are free to do so, however it's a Sisyphean task.

What society deems "this or that" should be ignored and the focus should be on what hormones actually do. Whether or not Hyperlexican and Valentine think their body hair should be allowed to be so thick that you need GPS to find their clit, or Kurgan thinks that any woman with a strand of hair anywhere but her head should be deported is so unimportant that it boarders on derailment. (LAST SENTENCE WAS EXAGGERATION)

The question is whether there is a correlation or simply a causality between the hormone levels in members of a gender and societies standard of beauty. However, there is no "real" way to establish that since even if you did a study, where you took lets say 1000 women, measured their androgen balance, then had 10000 people review pictures of said woman and rate them on a scale between 1 - 10 for beauty, or femininity or whatever. It could be argued that the reviewers were societally influenced in their judgment, thus the study not accurate. As I've said before, when one argues based on non-empirical values, there is always an out.

Glad I don't live in a country where you need to have a beard to be a man.

Not that the USA is as open as you think. I have met people from the midwest who think a man over 30 who is not sporting a beer belly is "probably gay" and any jeans other than the color blue are strictly for women.

My beard is a curse. The whiskers grow sideways, and curl back towards the skin.

That's hell when you have sensitivity issues and the site of a bug makes you itch already.

I can see where the notion of women and body hair makes people anxious.

There's always a push to make women less like women. But instead of getting led around by misdirected sensibilities, whenever someone writes or says something, I look at who they are and what their affiliations and ideals are.

Suffice to say, when my ex's sister, a 5' tall mustached troll who hated men, had anything to say on any matters regarding relationships, I found something else to think about.


Once I had a girlfriend who had armpit hair. She was not from the USA. Once she removed it, and liked the effect of "not stinking it up so fast", and thereafter did it constantly. She was no more girly than before that.


I have been to countries where there's plenty of leg hair on women to go around too. Ironic, though, that I have seen some nice pairs of legs with a little fuzz on them, yet in the USA I have seen a lot of heinously fat pairs of legs that appears meticulously waxed. Somebody is missing something.


I would suggest though that women who, lacking the razor, become as hairy as a dude, should get their blood checked. The food supply is corrupted with hormone-disrupting toxins, and someone with a progesterone imbalace (general unhealth can lead to that) is going to have major regulation issues. Men suffer from this too, but in a different manner. Often with men, you can claim that there are estrogen mimicking hormones in the plastics used for packaging and people giggle and say "I don't have boobs! Conspiracy theory!!" Yeah so but they are around 30 and have the pattern baldness of a man 25 years older because that estrogen hits, then the testosterone comes up to counter it, but being unhealthy they can't regulate, and the DHT is up and out comes the hair. Meanwhile, the back is getting way more hair and so you have a bald werewolf who thinks nothing is wrong because he don't have "moobies".

People who are more athletic, even in the same environment, have more regulation capability, being healthier (even if they don't eat as well as they should). Thus you hear the term "fat, hairy..." to describe some people because the unhealth and the poor regulation of hormones go together.

I get HRT (hormone replacement therapy).
Meaning that I have gender dysphoria and I have a female body and get testosterone because I think and feel like a guy!

I guess according to this bunk ongoing circular argument, I'm just hormonally cursed for ugliness for life then.



Of course, this doesn't matter as I've found someone tolerant to 'keep warm at night with.' Which is still more than some people with impossible high standards and narrow gender concepts can say.