Potentially dangerous yet popular health advice

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Sweetleaf
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21 Apr 2012, 12:34 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
I'm a full-time engineering student (with excellent grades) and I also work a lot. I still have time to exercise heavily.

A real woman has the body fat percentage in the mid 20's. If Adelle ate healthy food and jogged 3 hours a week, she'd reach that percentae within 8-12 months.


Ok so what gender are women who have a body fat percentage above that? and are heavier men not real men either?


Women who are obese are less fertile. Men who are obese produce less testosterone.


And that means they aren't real women or men?


I said the stuff about real women to underline a point. I'm fed up of unhealthy women like Adele who think they're a better role model in terms of physical health than a fit woman is.

If.she's comfortable with being obese, by all means let her be that way. Implying that a more fit woman would make less interesting music is extremely arrogant, though.



Yeah I agree....I just think the message that everyone should be super skinny is also very unhealthy.


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Kurgan
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21 Apr 2012, 12:39 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
I'm a full-time engineering student (with excellent grades) and I also work a lot. I still have time to exercise heavily.

A real woman has the body fat percentage in the mid 20's. If Adelle ate healthy food and jogged 3 hours a week, she'd reach that percentae within 8-12 months.


Ok so what gender are women who have a body fat percentage above that? and are heavier men not real men either?


Women who are obese are less fertile. Men who are obese produce less testosterone.


And that means they aren't real women or men?


I said the stuff about real women to underline a point. I'm fed up of unhealthy women like Adele who think they're a better role model in terms of physical health than a fit woman is.

If.she's comfortable with being obese, by all means let her be that way. Implying that a more fit woman would make less interesting music is extremely arrogant, though.



Yeah I agree....I just think the message that everyone should be super skinny is also very unhealthy.


Thankfully, most men do not watch any show where Paris Hilton has the main role. Furthermore, few straight men watch fashion shows with scrawny models.

This is probably why the skinnier models quickly become washed out hasbeens, while a more healthy model can be a sex symbol well into her 40's.



MONKEY
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21 Apr 2012, 3:42 pm

These celebrities end up becoming role models by default, and many of their fans listen to them. More popular media should focus on keeping fit, cooking healthy meals from scratch, things like that so there aren't all these silly extremes competing for dominance. (starving yourslef vs being a lazy f**k).
With great power comes great responsibility as the say.

I have no high horse to speak from I admit, I have been overweight twice in my life and I have been very unhappy, I have changed my lifestyle since and I feel good. Just being well within the normal weight range for my height and fit enough to walk a distance without having a heart attack, that's good enough for me.


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Kurgan
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21 Apr 2012, 3:50 pm

MONKEY wrote:
These celebrities end up becoming role models by default, and many of their fans listen to them. More popular media should focus on keeping fit, cooking healthy meals from scratch, things like that so there aren't all these silly extremes competing for dominance. (starving yourslef vs being a lazy f**k).
With great power comes great responsibility as the say.

I have no high horse to speak from I admit, I have been overweight twice in my life and I have been very unhappy, I have changed my lifestyle since and I feel good. Just being well within the normal weight range for my height and fit enough to walk a distance without having a heart attack, that's good enough for me.


Well done.

Changing the life style is the only thing that wrs, but in return, it always works.



smudge
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21 Apr 2012, 4:37 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Implying that a more fit woman would make less interesting music is extremely arrogant, though.


I agree. The thing is, even when someone is a healthy weight, they can still have too much fat inside of them surrounding their organs. In the end, people should eat and exercise a healthy amount. Adele though is obviously too overweight. It *is* replacing stupid advice with other stupid advice.



MONKEY
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21 Apr 2012, 4:52 pm

We can't forget the odd treat in the weekend. :wink:


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Janissy
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22 Apr 2012, 8:50 am

MONKEY wrote:
These celebrities end up becoming role models by default, and many of their fans listen to them. More popular media should focus on keeping fit, cooking healthy meals from scratch, things like that so there aren't all these silly extremes competing for dominance. (starving yourslef vs being a lazy f**k).
With great power comes great responsibility as the say.

I have no high horse to speak from I admit, I have been overweight twice in my life and I have been very unhappy, I have changed my lifestyle since and I feel good. Just being well within the normal weight range for my height and fit enough to walk a distance without having a heart attack, that's good enough for me.


Musicians have been icons of unhealthy living since the first Blues song was recorded almost 100 years ago. They are the precise opposite of athletes in this way. That musicians are deliberately unhealthy has become so entrenched in our culture over the decades that many writers have said this an expected self-sacrifice on their parts. They are supposed to destroy themselves for art. It predates hard drinking blues musicians of the 20's even and goes back to painters who were expected to be malnourished, unhealthy and sometimes literally suicidal.

Adele is just continuing in a VERY long tradition of artists who are expected to destroy their bodies to enhance their art. She almost explicitly says that when she compares watching her weight to degrading her vocal abilities down to a Nicole Ritchie level.

Nobody expects artists (particularly musicians) to be role models of healthy living. They are expected to be literally the opposite, even if it kills them, as it sometimes does (Amy Winehouse). The worse the health, the better the art. There are even some who worry that treating mental illness (or any illness) might destroy art. Could a mentally healthy VanGogh paint so well? Could a pshysically healthy Frida Kahlo paint so well? And could a menatlly and physcically healthy Amy Winehouse sing so well? The art-consuming public and the artists themselves suspect that the answer is no. And that's why this sometimes gets called self sacrifice. There is probably a part of Adele that worries that if she stopped smoking and lost weight, her voice would be nowehere near as good. What if that's true?



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22 Apr 2012, 9:05 am

I think most people should try to exercise more. Do I go around telling people that? no. The main reason I am skinny is genetics, so who am I to tell other people when I have no understanding of being overweight (unless they ask I guess, but obviously that would be different).



Kurgan
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22 Apr 2012, 9:10 am

Delphiki wrote:
I think most people should try to exercise more. Do I go around telling people that? no. The main reason I am skinny is genetics, so who am I to tell other people when I have no understanding of being overweight (unless they ask I guess, but obviously that would be different).


Actually, both Larry Scott and Frank Zane were skinny before they started working out. :) Frank Zane is one of only three bodybuilders to beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a bodybuilding contest. He's probably the most idolized bodybuilder of all time; no matter how straight you are, it's easy to see that his body looked great. :)

Image



Kurgan
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22 Apr 2012, 9:14 am

Janissy wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
These celebrities end up becoming role models by default, and many of their fans listen to them. More popular media should focus on keeping fit, cooking healthy meals from scratch, things like that so there aren't all these silly extremes competing for dominance. (starving yourslef vs being a lazy f**k).
With great power comes great responsibility as the say.

I have no high horse to speak from I admit, I have been overweight twice in my life and I have been very unhappy, I have changed my lifestyle since and I feel good. Just being well within the normal weight range for my height and fit enough to walk a distance without having a heart attack, that's good enough for me.


Musicians have been icons of unhealthy living since the first Blues song was recorded almost 100 years ago. They are the precise opposite of athletes in this way. That musicians are deliberately unhealthy has become so entrenched in our culture over the decades that many writers have said this an expected self-sacrifice on their parts. They are supposed to destroy themselves for art. It predates hard drinking blues musicians of the 20's even and goes back to painters who were expected to be malnourished, unhealthy and sometimes literally suicidal.

Adele is just continuing in a VERY long tradition of artists who are expected to destroy their bodies to enhance their art. She almost explicitly says that when she compares watching her weight to degrading her vocal abilities down to a Nicole Ritchie level.

Nobody expects artists (particularly musicians) to be role models of healthy living. They are expected to be literally the opposite, even if it kills them, as it sometimes does (Amy Winehouse). The worse the health, the better the art. There are even some who worry that treating mental illness (or any illness) might destroy art. Could a mentally healthy VanGogh paint so well? Could a pshysically healthy Frida Kahlo paint so well? And could a menatlly and physcically healthy Amy Winehouse sing so well? The art-consuming public and the artists themselves suspect that the answer is no. And that's why this sometimes gets called self sacrifice. There is probably a part of Adele that worries that if she stopped smoking and lost weight, her voice would be nowehere near as good. What if that's true?


Freddy Mercury in the mid 1980's was quite muscular and fit, yet he sang extremely well. The same goes for Anthony Kiedis.

I think Adele is just finding excuses not to eat healthy and exercise; a lot of out-of-shape people do that.



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22 Apr 2012, 9:16 am

Kurgan wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
I think most people should try to exercise more. Do I go around telling people that? no. The main reason I am skinny is genetics, so who am I to tell other people when I have no understanding of being overweight (unless they ask I guess, but obviously that would be different).


Actually, both Larry Scott and Frank Zane were skinny before they started working out. :) Frank Zane is one of only three bodybuilders to beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a bodybuilding contest. He's probably the most idolized bodybuilder of all time; no matter how straight you are, it's easy to see that his body looked great. :)

Image


His body looks disgusting, steroids much?



Sweetleaf
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22 Apr 2012, 9:26 am

Kurgan wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
I think most people should try to exercise more. Do I go around telling people that? no. The main reason I am skinny is genetics, so who am I to tell other people when I have no understanding of being overweight (unless they ask I guess, but obviously that would be different).


Actually, both Larry Scott and Frank Zane were skinny before they started working out. :) Frank Zane is one of only three bodybuilders to beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a bodybuilding contest. He's probably the most idolized bodybuilder of all time; no matter how straight you are, it's easy to see that his body looked great. :)

Image


Yeah I don't think he looks very great......and body building is not necessarily healthy, to each their own though, I do things that can possibly be unhealthy to.


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Wandering_Stranger
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22 Apr 2012, 9:31 am

Delphiki wrote:
The main reason I am skinny is genetics.


Same here. Despite this and having a stomach condition, I still get accused of having an eating disorder. :roll: A bit rich coming from someone who is skinnier than me.



Kurgan
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22 Apr 2012, 9:36 am

Delphiki wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
I think most people should try to exercise more. Do I go around telling people that? no. The main reason I am skinny is genetics, so who am I to tell other people when I have no understanding of being overweight (unless they ask I guess, but obviously that would be different).


Actually, both Larry Scott and Frank Zane were skinny before they started working out. :) Frank Zane is one of only three bodybuilders to beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a bodybuilding contest. He's probably the most idolized bodybuilder of all time; no matter how straight you are, it's easy to see that his body looked great. :)

Image


His body looks disgusting, steroids much?


He looks "disgusting" on stage because of diuretic drugs and because of his age. After a man passes his mid 30's, his muscles become more grainy and vascular, this is called muscle maturity.

Off-stage, this is what he looked like in his younger days:

Image



Kurgan
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22 Apr 2012, 9:38 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
I think most people should try to exercise more. Do I go around telling people that? no. The main reason I am skinny is genetics, so who am I to tell other people when I have no understanding of being overweight (unless they ask I guess, but obviously that would be different).


Actually, both Larry Scott and Frank Zane were skinny before they started working out. :) Frank Zane is one of only three bodybuilders to beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in a bodybuilding contest. He's probably the most idolized bodybuilder of all time; no matter how straight you are, it's easy to see that his body looked great. :)

Image


Yeah I don't think he looks very great......and body building is not necessarily healthy, to each their own though, I do things that can possibly be unhealthy to.


I didn't say that bodybuilding was the pinnacle of physical fitness, but if an extreme ectomorph can become like that, anyone can gain muscle.



Delphiki
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22 Apr 2012, 9:40 am

I don't really see your point. He still looks airbrushed or on steroids. I never want to gain that much muscle. At 5ft 11 I would not want to weigh more than 175, probably no more than 160. But I am to skinny anyway. An I think I have a small frame, don't know how to know how big of a frame I have