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kx250rider
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27 Jun 2012, 10:44 am

Honestly, if I see a picture of abs that ARE even, I immediately think it's a fake. The human body is formed initially in the womb as two halves, which join together, and therefore we all have a mismatch of features of the body which repeat on left and right sides. That includes ears, eyes, teeth, arms, legs, and ab muscles. As with anything natural, some people have a closer match than others from side to side, but none is perfectly balanced if actually measured out.

Charles



Kurgan
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27 Jun 2012, 11:33 am

Common crunches (or even better: Cable crunches) are a supplement to deadlifts and squats--not a substitute. Isolation exercises for your obliques are a waste of time.

Frank Zane is a great example of this; he never did any isolation exercises for his obliques:

Image

Furthermore, very few people are able to get perfectly symmetric Hollywood sixpack abs.



starryeyedvoyager
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27 Jun 2012, 11:37 am

It is genetic, and it doesn't affect performance. Both my sides are almost exactly equally strong (not only abs, other muscles as well), and my definition looks different on both sides. Also note that the amount of "packs" in your abs is genetic and says nothing about strenght. Typically, you have six, but there are folks with five, eight, or - like me - seven. If you look at my abs, the right side starts a little higher, and then it pretty much alternates left, right, left, right, in that fashion.



TM
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27 Jun 2012, 1:22 pm

I don't get the obsession with abs to be honest.



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27 Jun 2012, 1:30 pm

TM wrote:
I don't get the obsession with abs to be honest.


It's relatively recent. It's because everyone around us has a high amount of bodyfat, and having a "six pack" means you got low bodyfat. It's a sorta unrealistic pointless standard, but it's now a standard. It's like how runway models used to be size 4-6, and now they're zeros. An extreme to fight an extreme.



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27 Jun 2012, 1:33 pm

TM wrote:
I don't get the obsession with abs to be honest.
well I don't care about them too much to be honest. But the rest of my upper body is looking toned except for my abs, and it is mainly just some thick skin that is making them not visible. So I might as well work on them some.


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27 Jun 2012, 1:40 pm

The thick skin is fat. As I said, seeing abs is basically down to bodyfat. Ever see some old person who used to bodybuild with like 18-19 inch arms? They got the muscle, but aren't "ripped" anymore just due to having too much fat. I have a friend that's 130lbs, he's got abs, I do not, I'm basically stronger than him at every lift, but I do not have abs. It's not the muscles for being "toned" it's bodyfat. There are 300lb powerlifters that do weighted situps with like 200-300lbs, obviously having stronger ab muscles than you and me, but they're covered in fat.



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27 Jun 2012, 1:54 pm

1000Knives wrote:
The thick skin is fat. As I said, seeing abs is basically down to bodyfat. Ever see some old person who used to bodybuild with like 18-19 inch arms? They got the muscle, but aren't "ripped" anymore just due to having too much fat. I have a friend that's 130lbs, he's got abs, I do not, I'm basically stronger than him at every lift, but I do not have abs. It's not the muscles for being "toned" it's bodyfat. There are 300lb powerlifters that do weighted situps with like 200-300lbs, obviously having stronger ab muscles than you and me, but they're covered in fat.


Abs on a skinny guy are like tits on a fat chick--they don't count! :P



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27 Jun 2012, 2:39 pm

Kurgan wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
The thick skin is fat. As I said, seeing abs is basically down to bodyfat. Ever see some old person who used to bodybuild with like 18-19 inch arms? They got the muscle, but aren't "ripped" anymore just due to having too much fat. I have a friend that's 130lbs, he's got abs, I do not, I'm basically stronger than him at every lift, but I do not have abs. It's not the muscles for being "toned" it's bodyfat. There are 300lb powerlifters that do weighted situps with like 200-300lbs, obviously having stronger ab muscles than you and me, but they're covered in fat.


Abs on a skinny guy are like tits on a fat chick--they don't count! :P


I like this statement and I intend to steal it. I always found lat-spreads to be way more impressive than abs anyway. That "jesus, I bet if he fell out of a plane that mofo could glide to the ground"



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27 Jun 2012, 3:06 pm

TM wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
The thick skin is fat. As I said, seeing abs is basically down to bodyfat. Ever see some old person who used to bodybuild with like 18-19 inch arms? They got the muscle, but aren't "ripped" anymore just due to having too much fat. I have a friend that's 130lbs, he's got abs, I do not, I'm basically stronger than him at every lift, but I do not have abs. It's not the muscles for being "toned" it's bodyfat. There are 300lb powerlifters that do weighted situps with like 200-300lbs, obviously having stronger ab muscles than you and me, but they're covered in fat.


Abs on a skinny guy are like tits on a fat chick--they don't count! :P


I like this statement and I intend to steal it. I always found lat-spreads to be way more impressive than abs anyway. That "jesus, I bet if he fell out of a plane that mofo could glide to the ground"


It's not my statement. :) I don't remember who said it, but it's a famous personal trainer. Scrawny, 120 lb teenagers who brag about their abs are quite pathetic.



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27 Jun 2012, 3:39 pm

Kurgan wrote:
TM wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
The thick skin is fat. As I said, seeing abs is basically down to bodyfat. Ever see some old person who used to bodybuild with like 18-19 inch arms? They got the muscle, but aren't "ripped" anymore just due to having too much fat. I have a friend that's 130lbs, he's got abs, I do not, I'm basically stronger than him at every lift, but I do not have abs. It's not the muscles for being "toned" it's bodyfat. There are 300lb powerlifters that do weighted situps with like 200-300lbs, obviously having stronger ab muscles than you and me, but they're covered in fat.


Abs on a skinny guy are like tits on a fat chick--they don't count! :P


I like this statement and I intend to steal it. I always found lat-spreads to be way more impressive than abs anyway. That "jesus, I bet if he fell out of a plane that mofo could glide to the ground"


It's not my statement. :) I don't remember who said it, but it's a famous personal trainer. Scrawny, 120 lb teenagers who brag about their abs are quite pathetic.


Yeah, I'm 155-ish and there's a lot of 120 pound freshman on my team with abs.


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TM
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27 Jun 2012, 4:30 pm

Kurgan wrote:
TM wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
The thick skin is fat. As I said, seeing abs is basically down to bodyfat. Ever see some old person who used to bodybuild with like 18-19 inch arms? They got the muscle, but aren't "ripped" anymore just due to having too much fat. I have a friend that's 130lbs, he's got abs, I do not, I'm basically stronger than him at every lift, but I do not have abs. It's not the muscles for being "toned" it's bodyfat. There are 300lb powerlifters that do weighted situps with like 200-300lbs, obviously having stronger ab muscles than you and me, but they're covered in fat.


Abs on a skinny guy are like tits on a fat chick--they don't count! :P


I like this statement and I intend to steal it. I always found lat-spreads to be way more impressive than abs anyway. That "jesus, I bet if he fell out of a plane that mofo could glide to the ground"


It's not my statement. :) I don't remember who said it, but it's a famous personal trainer. Scrawny, 120 lb teenagers who brag about their abs are quite pathetic.


There are a lot of awesome statements like that, I heard one that went something like "You get 18 inch arms by curling 120 lbs" and another went "All I really do is play football, do hill sprints and push my truck around my property".



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27 Jun 2012, 11:43 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Common crunches (or even better: Cable crunches) are a supplement to deadlifts and squats--not a substitute. Isolation exercises for your obliques are a waste of time.

Frank Zane is a great example of this; he never did any isolation exercises for his obliques:

Image

Furthermore, very few people are able to get perfectly symmetric Hollywood sixpack abs.


This is from the official Frank Zane website and he also wrote a book called Famously Fit Forever which involves more than squats and deadlifts.

Quote:
I like to keep my total reps at least 200 to 300 each ab workout. Another great exercise is side leg raise on the hip machine (if you have one, if not you can use a rubber cable firmly attached to the floor stuck under a door) raise at 45 degree angle between the side and the rear to isolate the rear oblique. My favorite "love handle" tri-set is 1 arm cable crunch, hip machine, and seated twist, 3 sets of 30 apiece. Go easy at first on this so you don't get a sore lower back. Another exercise that really works the rear obliques is ice skating, cross country skiing, roller blade-ing, or the Nautilus Skating Machine. - Frank Zane


Quote:
Intercostals are those muscles between your outer ribs that run from the serratus down to the obliques-they are your "spare ribs". Anytime you do crunches, situps, knee ups, or leg raise in a twisting fashion you work the intercostals. This area is most directly worked by the same two exercises I favor for oblique development: one arm cable crunch and seated twist. Avoid side bending directly to the side as this can build the obliques. A little of this can be ok without any weight held in the hands, but be careful not to add muscle directly to the sides because when you do get a little out of shape fat will accumulate here like a spare tire. One arm cable crunch works the frontal obliques and intercostals and seated twist with a light pole on the shoulders stretches these areas and helps define them. And if you have a hip machine - or you can attach a lower pulley to your ankle with an ankle strap and do standing leg raise out to the side (at a 45 degree angle between the rear and the side) to directly effect the rear oblique as well as the outer buttock and the outer hamstrings. I often tri- set these 3 exercises, keeping my reps between 15 And 50 each set. Swinging a tennis racket, baseball bat, or a golf club on each side with both hands really works the intercostals and obliques.



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27 Jun 2012, 11:45 pm

Here's an interview with Frank Zane.

Quote:
Would that come at the end of the workout?

Yeah. Sometimes I would come back to the gym later in the day and just do abs because it would take a while.
What were your preferred ab exercises?

Usually crunches and/or Roman-chair situps for upper abs. Leg raises or hanging knee-ups for upper abs, seated twists for obliques.
Not a lot of guys devote that much time to their ab training these days.

Worked for me. I just went by the example of those who had been training at Gold’s Gym [in Venice] when I got there. You know, in the late ’60s Zabo Koszewski was there and he had the best abs and I figured, Well, I’ll try it. He would do 500 Roman-chair situps in the morning and 500 leg raises in the afternoon and so that’s what I did. I figured if you had great abs and you had everything else, you’d look even better, and it worked.

Not only did it give me great abs, but it gave me great upper-quad separation.


Interview published by Flex magazine http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-legen ... rview.html



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28 Jun 2012, 12:01 am

1000Knives wrote:
The thick skin is fat. As I said, seeing abs is basically down to bodyfat. Ever see some old person who used to bodybuild with like 18-19 inch arms? They got the muscle, but aren't "ripped" anymore just due to having too much fat. I have a friend that's 130lbs, he's got abs, I do not, I'm basically stronger than him at every lift, but I do not have abs. It's not the muscles for being "toned" it's bodyfat. There are 300lb powerlifters that do weighted situps with like 200-300lbs, obviously having stronger ab muscles than you and me, but they're covered in fat.



Quote:
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (common in bodybuilding) involves the growth of the sarcoplasm (fluid like substance) and non-contractile proteins that do not directly contribute to muscular force production. Filament area density decreases while cross-sectional area increases, without a significant increase in strength. Myofibrillar hypertrophy occurs due to an increase in myosin-acting filaments. Contractile proteins are synthesized and filament density increases (Zatsiorsky 1995). This type of hypertrophy leads to increased strength production.


Of course but out lifting someone that is 130 pounds isn't an impressive feat by any means and I doubt your friend is an example of someone who has maximized his development and hypertrophy.

Body building is about the development of muscles whereas power lifting is solely focus on increasing strength through hypertrophy, to compare the two is like comparing a soccer player and a basketball player.