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btbnnyr
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28 Jul 2016, 7:18 pm

I don't think public shaming of obese people is a good idea.
It is too mean and would cause in psychological damage in many people.
But I think more awareness of obesity as a generally bad thing for people's health is a better approach.
Like there is high awareness of smoking as an unhealthy thing.
I think that accepting "plus size" to boost people's self-esteem has gone too far.
Going away from that trend and recognizing obesity as a major source of health problems would be better.


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29 Jul 2016, 1:18 am

I don't think trying to make people feel bad about themselves is going to help matters. Ultimately, the way to cure obesity is through education, so people understand how obesity comes about, stop it before it starts.

For those who are already obese, I think inspiration is helpful - show them transformations made by former obese people, and hear their stories of how they achieved it. Typically those stories involve consistent effort. You don't need to be doing nonsense like they do on the Biggest Loser, just make gradual changes to your lifestyle. Cut down on your food intake a little bit at a time. Up your exercise by small increments. Even if you can barely walk, you can still exercise. I've seen people begin their journeys simply by shaking their arms around for a few minutes. The key is to understand that there isn't a quick solution, that by changing your lifestyle you will come around, but it'll take time. And of course, you need to understand that once the weight is gone, you need to maintain a healthy and active lifestyle or it'll come back.



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29 Jul 2016, 5:42 pm

auntblabby wrote:
oh! i have an idea! let's shame shaming obesity! :idea:


I love the look of fat on a person so I agree. I loathe fat shamers.


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31 Jul 2016, 10:57 pm

Whether or not fat shaming is the answer, obesity still a major issue that needs to be solved, as it is not just affecting society, but humanity's health as a whole.

1 in 7 people globally are now overweight or obese (though considering the WHO uses the BMI system to measure weight, plenty of physically fit and athletic people would also fall into the 'overweight' category legally because of the amount of weight they have in muscle, but I digress) and the numbers are rising with each passing year.

There are rising obesity rates not just in the United States but many other nations as well, including here. Australia isn't that far behind from the U.S. at all.

You'd think rich countries such as the U.S., Australia, and most European nations would be the pinnacle of human mental and physical health, what with the access to healthcare, proper nutrition and exercise equipment, but this is not the case, aside from most professional and olympic athletes.

While we may have longer life expectancies, is a lifetime of obesity, health problems, high medical bills and depression (also on the rise) really worth it?

I consider being overweight or obese, overfed and undernourished no more or less healthier than being an underweight, undernourished starving African. It's the same thing as being either underweight or overweight and nutritionally deficit tends to bring the same problems (stunted growth and development, fatigue, depression, physical weakness, etc.)

I'd be fine if, say, 10% of people were overweight or obese and 90% not, but in many places it is the exact opposite.

I understand if some overweight or obese people have some, or various medical conditions that make weight loss or maintaining a lower weight more difficult. I understand we all have our busy lives and schedules once one reaches adulthood.

I may not know yet how being past your prime/peak must feel but of course I'm aware past about age 30 our health starts to slowly decline and physical activity becomes more difficult, along with exercise. I know the metabolism slows down around age 25.

I understand women have pregnancy and that can really set them back and alters and damages their bodies.

I have full respect for any overweight individual trying to lose the weight in the best way they can by eating a healthy diet and/or exercising.

Being slightly overweight by just a few lbs or so isn't a big deal, especially if you can maintain and remain the same weight and not gain any.

I was skinny-fat (high body fat, very low muscle tone) and very close to being slightly overweight myself, just an lb or two, and managed to lose the body fat and replace it with muscle in the last 3 years.

Definitely not a big change, but there's people that have been far more overweight, far older and past their prime years, far busier with studying and work and family and responsibilities, far less money for healthier foods, and far less time who have successfully lost far more fat and gained it back in far more muscle.

If they could, why can't you?

I'm not just talking about lucky celebrities either. There's plenty of amateur bodybuilders who juggled university study, work, and then their full-time career and family responsibilities and still managed to stay in decent shape.

Some health issues are often caused purely by laziness.

I'm not sure if I sound like a fat shamer or not. It's not like I'm purposely directly insulting any individual overweight people.

I've already pointed out that individual cases do need to be considered, but also not denying some of it simply IS caused by pure laziness or lack of motivation.

How do some people turn out significantly overweight or obese so young, especially as a middle or upper middle class kid in rich western countries? Perhaps as a child you were simply fed by your parents, but as a teen you can actually research how to eat properly. So perhaps you don't yet have a job and are still fed by your parents. Why not politely ask them to buy certain groceries such as more fruits and vegetables, and perhaps suggest cheap, healthier new recipes or alternatives to the unhealthy meals you and they eat if they don't eat all that well?

In the end, while what you eat does matter, it is portions and calories that are the most important thing of all.

Eating too much calories of healthy foods will still cause weight gain, as will eating too much caloies of unhealthy foods.

And if your family eats quite unhealthy, you can still either increase activity or still control your calorie intake to the point it's possible to lose weight even if your diet isn't the best.

Not having a job and only having to worry about study leaves you much more free time, but even if you have a part-time job as a teen, you still have a lot of free time on your hands you don't get back at age 30. You can use some of the money from your part-time job to sometimes pay for your own food here and there.

The only thing that could possibly be stopping most middle class American teenager to start a healthier lifestyle now is parents with an unhealthy lifestyle, not having a part-time job, or depression/lack of motivation, or abusive parents/bad home life, or being in one of the top/harder level classes so you have more overwhelming study.

Otherwise, I simply find it disgraceful to see overweight and obesity in the youth. It's the time when your body is healthiest and when you should put your body in the best condition it can be in, because after say, 35-40 it's all downhill from there.

And why should I care what 'other people' do with their lives?

Because considering this generation has the highest rates of obesity, it means whether I like it or not, I AM exposed to it quite frequently.

I care about my health and fitness and would want to date a girl who does the same, in the best ways she can. Slightly overweight is probably the most flexible I could be, but I'm seeing more and more significantly overweight and obese young girls and women around my age that simply limits my dating pool. And they aren't the one's that are trying to lose weight, either. The one's that are, sure, I'd date them.

My best friend is obese and while I like him as a friend, I also want friends I can actually do anything even mildly physical with. He could not walk 0.6 miles without constantly needing me to stop for rest breaks. We stopped 2-4 times for about a minute each. Even at the end of the 0.6 miles I felt I could walk at least 4 more before getting anywhere near as exhausted as he was. I'm not blaming the obesity though. In high school I was friends with thin but out of shape people who loathed exercise at all and probably would have been panting for breath as well.

It's a big problem in my family, and not for any health reasons but simply out of not caring about their health. My 30 year old uncle can vomit from a simple walk from the shopping centre parking lot to the outside ATM and back. That's just a few metres.

On most family trips and holidays when we walk a lot, even if he's well hydrated he'll end up vomitting in the parking lot before we leave.

I use to be fine with dating a slightly or even moderately overweight female, but after seeing what it does to my friends and family I have forever been disgusted and driven away from it over-time. I think this was also a natural consequence of me improving my health - my standards for health in a partner went up as well.

Miraculous turnarounds are possible, but I simply don't expect a significantly obese person at age 35 to be capable of reaching the health and fitness level someone who started to lose weight and then gain muscle at 15 would have by now. But, it's still possible, I guess, and good luck to them.

I'm not talking about people who are trying, I'm talking about people who aren't at all and actually 'fat and proud', or those even pushing for a 'fat acceptance' movement.

I wouldn't feel ashamed to be overweight because it'll only make you feel worse and is not good for your self esteem.

You're more than that and your personality and who you are is overall more important. And the stereotypes are incorrect and it's perfectly possible for you to be hardworking, and to raise your children to live healthy and active lifestyles and eat properly.

But if I were them I wouldn't want to feel proud of it either.

This is not referring to curvy or slightly overweight women who are proud to have curvier figures, I'm talking about men and women, for some inexpicable reason, being proud they look like this:

Image

Image

It's just not something to shame, but it's not something to be proud of either.

I know some of the users here are overweight or obese, so I've been trying to word this all carefully so as to not come across as shaming or antagonistic, because I don't intend to. But I do know many obese people accept it as a problem rather than just ignore and pretend it's not, because it is.



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31 Jul 2016, 11:07 pm

I'm not overweight or obese, however I was at one point due to health reasons. After those issues resolved, I was able to lose the weight with diet and exercise.

I would like to point out something about those who have never been overweight though, which often goes overlooked. Most of them do not keep track of their caloric intake. They have no idea how many calories they need, or how many calories they eat. They eat what they want, and as much as they want, when they want, and it just so happens that their hypothalamus regulates their hunger and food cravings such that their caloric intake does not exceed their caloric requirements.

There is a condition called Prader Willi Syndrome, where the hyothalamus is damage, or deformed, and in these individuals, this causes an insatiable appetite and an inability to feel full. These people will eat themselves to death if given the opportunity.

Society will give these individuals sympathy, but condemns otherwise healthy individuals who are overweight, despite the fact that natural variation itself lends to variation in the healthy hypothalamus, which could explain the propensity of some individuals to over eat.

This is why I think it's wrong to condemn an overweight person as lazy or as having poor self control. In many instances, I think these people just don't have the privilege of a finely tuned hypothalamus that turns them off to food when they meet their necessary caloric intake.



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31 Jul 2016, 11:19 pm

questor wrote:
I would like to point out that in cases of over use of alcohol, tobacco, or drugs, it is possible to isolate yourself from them long enough to get past the rough withdrawal phase, like going to a cabin, or checking into a facility until you have gotten past the worst of the cravings. Unfortunately, this isolation method won't work for obesity. If you stop eating you will die. People need to eat every day to avoid other health issues, that is, food is a requirement for life. None of those other substances are required to maintain life.

Also, it isn't nice to insult people struggling with a health issue, even when it is at least partly self induced. Everyone has their own problems, and you wouldn't want people shaming you over yours. And the fact that someone else is fat doesn't do you any harm, so why pick on them?

Generally, no matter what the cause of becoming fat, once you are there, your body chemistry changes to maintain that excess weight, so in any attempts to lose weight the person is fighting not only the excess poundage, but their body chemistry.

Rather than shaming, you should be offering encouragement to anyone who has any kind of health issues. Shame on you for not doing so!
Actually, I once fasted for 4 days in a row. I drank only water and had no food the entire time.

And I lost a little weight. But I had no health issues from that. I've fasted other time in my life as well with only positive results spiritually and physically.


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31 Jul 2016, 11:30 pm

Perhaps it depends on one's body, but I don't mathematically calculate my calorie needs either.

I take rough guesses and experiment with food portions.

So if I want to gain muscle, which requires eating in a calorie surplus, I'll eat lots more (but not too much) and if I notice no change after a few weeks or month, I slightly increase calories. And so on.

And if I want to lose weight, slightly decrease the amount I'm eating. And so on.

But yes I agree, I have heard there's something about some overweight individuals bodies that change that make it harder for them to lose weight and all that.

Still, I somehow went from around 165lbs of mostly fat on my body to 132lbs from about age 15 to 17, before bulking up to the 158lbs of mostly muscle I am now.

Like I said, not all that difficult by any means to go from borderline slightly overweight to skinny to lean, but certainly not impossible.

Either way, I'm sure if your weight stays stable for several months and you're overweight, that would mean you're eating the amount of calories you need to stay the same weight, correct? And so decreasing calories slightly would mean you're eating less than your body needs.

Even if one doesn't calculate calories, which I know is a headache of a task and I gave up trying to understand it, especially since some websites said I need ridiculously high amounts and the other ridiculously low, one can still actively choose and monitor what they eat and how much of it, and watch carefully to see if their weight is changing or not.

When it comes to resisting feelings of hunger, that's a battle but it's got to one with determination and willpower. Drinking lots more water and hydrating yourself, 3-6 litres rather than just 1 or 2, can fight feelings of hunger and i've heard sometimes the body can mistake thirst for hunger.

Distracting yourself with other tasks can help you take it off your mind.

When it comes to fasting, I never did fast, but at 15 there were times I drastically reduced calories to somewhat unhealthily low levels.

I still remember boxing day a few years ago all I had ate or drunk all day was 6 sandwiches, 4 soft drinks, water and dinner. I was pretty hungry but through sheer willpower fought it off.

It wasn't healthy though to be eating so little but I lost weight faster when I was 15 then I ever have in my life, and at the time I didn't care about muscle loss (which I do now, so I choose to lose weight slower now to be on the safe side), but it worked.



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01 Aug 2016, 12:38 am

my Japanese ancestors had a saying, "eat only until you're 9/10ths full." even if I tried to overstuff myself, i'd feel like dookie for hours afterwards [indigestion due to GERD]. so I just try to eat slowly and pay attention to when my stomach stops sending hunger signals. but if not for the GERD punishment if i fail to do this, i'd probably be more tempted to overstuff myself.



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01 Aug 2016, 12:04 pm

Outrider wrote:
Whether or not fat shaming is the answer, obesity still a major issue that needs to be solved, as it is not just affecting society, but humanity's health as a whole.

1 in 7 people globally are now overweight or obese (though considering the WHO uses the BMI system to measure weight, plenty of physically fit and athletic people would also fall into the 'overweight' category legally because of the amount of weight they have in muscle, but I digress) and the numbers are rising with each passing year.

There are rising obesity rates not just in the United States but many other nations as well, including here. Australia isn't that far behind from the U.S. at all.

You'd think rich countries such as the U.S., Australia, and most European nations would be the pinnacle of human mental and physical health, what with the access to healthcare, proper nutrition and exercise equipment, but this is not the case, aside from most professional and olympic athletes.

While we may have longer life expectancies, is a lifetime of obesity, health problems, high medical bills and depression (also on the rise) really worth it?

I consider being overweight or obese, overfed and undernourished no more or less healthier than being an underweight, undernourished starving African. It's the same thing as being either underweight or overweight and nutritionally deficit tends to bring the same problems (stunted growth and development, fatigue, depression, physical weakness, etc.)

I'd be fine if, say, 10% of people were overweight or obese and 90% not, but in many places it is the exact opposite.

I understand if some overweight or obese people have some, or various medical conditions that make weight loss or maintaining a lower weight more difficult. I understand we all have our busy lives and schedules once one reaches adulthood.

I may not know yet how being past your prime/peak must feel but of course I'm aware past about age 30 our health starts to slowly decline and physical activity becomes more difficult, along with exercise. I know the metabolism slows down around age 25.

I understand women have pregnancy and that can really set them back and alters and damages their bodies.

I have full respect for any overweight individual trying to lose the weight in the best way they can by eating a healthy diet and/or exercising.

Being slightly overweight by just a few lbs or so isn't a big deal, especially if you can maintain and remain the same weight and not gain any.

I was skinny-fat (high body fat, very low muscle tone) and very close to being slightly overweight myself, just an lb or two, and managed to lose the body fat and replace it with muscle in the last 3 years.

Definitely not a big change, but there's people that have been far more overweight, far older and past their prime years, far busier with studying and work and family and responsibilities, far less money for healthier foods, and far less time who have successfully lost far more fat and gained it back in far more muscle.

If they could, why can't you?

I'm not just talking about lucky celebrities either. There's plenty of amateur bodybuilders who juggled university study, work, and then their full-time career and family responsibilities and still managed to stay in decent shape.

Some health issues are often caused purely by laziness.

I'm not sure if I sound like a fat shamer or not. It's not like I'm purposely directly insulting any individual overweight people.

I've already pointed out that individual cases do need to be considered, but also not denying some of it simply IS caused by pure laziness or lack of motivation.

How do some people turn out significantly overweight or obese so young, especially as a middle or upper middle class kid in rich western countries? Perhaps as a child you were simply fed by your parents, but as a teen you can actually research how to eat properly. So perhaps you don't yet have a job and are still fed by your parents. Why not politely ask them to buy certain groceries such as more fruits and vegetables, and perhaps suggest cheap, healthier new recipes or alternatives to the unhealthy meals you and they eat if they don't eat all that well?

In the end, while what you eat does matter, it is portions and calories that are the most important thing of all.

Eating too much calories of healthy foods will still cause weight gain, as will eating too much caloies of unhealthy foods.

And if your family eats quite unhealthy, you can still either increase activity or still control your calorie intake to the point it's possible to lose weight even if your diet isn't the best.

Not having a job and only having to worry about study leaves you much more free time, but even if you have a part-time job as a teen, you still have a lot of free time on your hands you don't get back at age 30. You can use some of the money from your part-time job to sometimes pay for your own food here and there.

The only thing that could possibly be stopping most middle class American teenager to start a healthier lifestyle now is parents with an unhealthy lifestyle, not having a part-time job, or depression/lack of motivation, or abusive parents/bad home life, or being in one of the top/harder level classes so you have more overwhelming study.

Otherwise, I simply find it disgraceful to see overweight and obesity in the youth. It's the time when your body is healthiest and when you should put your body in the best condition it can be in, because after say, 35-40 it's all downhill from there.

And why should I care what 'other people' do with their lives?

Because considering this generation has the highest rates of obesity, it means whether I like it or not, I AM exposed to it quite frequently.

I care about my health and fitness and would want to date a girl who does the same, in the best ways she can. Slightly overweight is probably the most flexible I could be, but I'm seeing more and more significantly overweight and obese young girls and women around my age that simply limits my dating pool. And they aren't the one's that are trying to lose weight, either. The one's that are, sure, I'd date them.

My best friend is obese and while I like him as a friend, I also want friends I can actually do anything even mildly physical with. He could not walk 0.6 miles without constantly needing me to stop for rest breaks. We stopped 2-4 times for about a minute each. Even at the end of the 0.6 miles I felt I could walk at least 4 more before getting anywhere near as exhausted as he was. I'm not blaming the obesity though. In high school I was friends with thin but out of shape people who loathed exercise at all and probably would have been panting for breath as well.

It's a big problem in my family, and not for any health reasons but simply out of not caring about their health. My 30 year old uncle can vomit from a simple walk from the shopping centre parking lot to the outside ATM and back. That's just a few metres.

On most family trips and holidays when we walk a lot, even if he's well hydrated he'll end up vomitting in the parking lot before we leave.

I use to be fine with dating a slightly or even moderately overweight female, but after seeing what it does to my friends and family I have forever been disgusted and driven away from it over-time. I think this was also a natural consequence of me improving my health - my standards for health in a partner went up as well.

Miraculous turnarounds are possible, but I simply don't expect a significantly obese person at age 35 to be capable of reaching the health and fitness level someone who started to lose weight and then gain muscle at 15 would have by now. But, it's still possible, I guess, and good luck to them.

I'm not talking about people who are trying, I'm talking about people who aren't at all and actually 'fat and proud', or those even pushing for a 'fat acceptance' movement.

I wouldn't feel ashamed to be overweight because it'll only make you feel worse and is not good for your self esteem.

You're more than that and your personality and who you are is overall more important. And the stereotypes are incorrect and it's perfectly possible for you to be hardworking, and to raise your children to live healthy and active lifestyles and eat properly.

But if I were them I wouldn't want to feel proud of it either.

This is not referring to curvy or slightly overweight women who are proud to have curvier figures, I'm talking about men and women, for some inexpicable reason, being proud they look like this:

Image

Image

It's just not something to shame, but it's not something to be proud of either.

I know some of the users here are overweight or obese, so I've been trying to word this all carefully so as to not come across as shaming or antagonistic, because I don't intend to. But I do know many obese people accept it as a problem rather than just ignore and pretend it's not, because it is.


You have a point about women being proud to have curvier figures. I'm plus sized. I've managed to maintain my clothing size for many years. I also count calories. Stereotypes are incorrect.

A friend and I were discussing gastric bypass surgery for people who weigh a lot. When I say a lot I mean people who eat themselves to the point of being immobile.


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01 Aug 2016, 6:07 pm

people need to know that obesity=malnutrition.



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01 Aug 2016, 9:19 pm

I don't think a human being should be made to feel ashamed by how their physical form looks, every person is beautiful and we all come in different shapes, we're all human beings. No shape is superior to another in reality, so what if some dude has a six pack or some girl is super-toned, what's within them is much more vital, what they have to offer, not what they weigh... if a person has an admirable soul and they weigh eighteen stone, what does that matter? If someone equally admirable is in tip top condition, that doesn't make them a superior being, it just means they keep fit, they have the motivation, ability and drive to, it's not some mandatory law. I like to keep in shape but I don't hold myself as some superior being, it's just a choice and dedication I persist with. Shaming to me means someone has done something wretched toward other humans or is deliberately offensive. I think encouraging people to be healthier is a valid avenue of course because health is very important but making someone feel ashamed is not right in my opinion.


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01 Aug 2016, 9:24 pm

AFAIC this lookism has in its roots a Darwinian drive to be attractive in a reproductive sense.



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01 Aug 2016, 9:32 pm

Shaming is wrong.

As is making excuses for ourselves.


If you're overweight, it's statistically highly unlikely there's any cause other than poor diet, lack of exercise, and eating too much.


I think it's ok for someone to refer to themselves in any way they wish.


But I wouldn't like someone else referring to me as a spastic for being autistic.



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06 Aug 2016, 11:42 pm

I have to admit I've been tempted to do this myself. The reason being that I use to be obese and then I lost weight. That was about 3 years ago. I'm still not obese.

No I wasn't obese due to a medical condition. I was obese due to overeating and junkfood (the Risperidone probably didn't help either).

So when I see obese people say it's too hard or it's impossible I think "this was what I used to think when I was obese and yet I showed that it's possible".

Or sometimes I just think "If I could do it, why can't they?"

Yes I realize losing weight can be very difficult but there is a shortcut that I used. Phentermine, aka, Duromine. If you use this stuff it will make weight loss effortless. I lost 17 KG / 34 lb in the first month alone and continued to lose after that.

The fact that this medication exists makes me wonder why I see obese people all around when they could just take some Phentermine and then effortlessly lose weight.

Now my problem is that losing the last little bit of fat is more difficult than losing weight was when I was obese. It's more difficult for a slightly overweight person to lose 5 kg than for an obese person to lose 5 kg.


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Last edited by RetroGamer87 on 06 Aug 2016, 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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06 Aug 2016, 11:55 pm

eliminate all refined carbs from the diet, replace those calories with veggies and water, and the weight will come off. not saying this is a pleasant process but that it is doable. that is what I did. YMMV but not that much.