Obesity "Fat" acceptance movement in the U.S.

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tensordyne
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16 Sep 2019, 3:50 pm

Not enough to be compared to a professional, that's for sure. No idea what you do for a living though.
I am aware that lots of natural things hurt humans and I've also mentioned that I know eating too much meat is a health risk. You say that eating even a little bit of it is and I'm not denying it since I don't know enough about the subject to do so, but if even a small amount of meat was as bad as you say, I'm pretty sure the media would be making more noise about it. So, the good things that come out of eating reasonable amounts of meat are likely to outweight the problems. Or at the very least, the problems are smaller than the problems that stopping meat industry out of the blue would bring.


The point is, before you made it sound like it is crazy that humans can eat meat _and_ be herbivores. Now what do you think?

I don't work. The rest of the small biography I am willing to give out is on my info page.

You are pretty sure the media would make a big deal of it? Can I laugh now at your naivete, or will you take offense? I kind of don't care either way, because this is one of the silliest statements I have ever heard in this place. The media are paid by people with vested interests. Those people direct as best they can the public narative. Check out Noam Chomsky if this sounds fantastical to you.

I already know from a later part of the responses that you do not like watching videos for sensory issues, as I had guessed, so that is a major issue. For instance, how would you even know if the media outside of text media is making a big deal of it? I can not then try to argue it to you, one way or the other. Here are some text media links for those who may be interested.

Define reasonable?
Define good things?

I don't see you referrencing outside sources with logic Fireblossom. Plus, your arguments are all plausibility style arguments, which is a very weak kind of argument style.


Yes, and that is why you brought it up, of course, to find a possible wedge issue. Try looking at the big log in your eye that has to do with the IPCC recommendation for human species survival that we need to go Vegan, before you consider the speck of an issue that is in my eye with pets. That would be nice.



I don't see an answer here.


I do. Use Google or whatever search engine you like and go inform yourself in the way that works for you. The keywords are IPCC, Vegan, Dr. McDougall, Climate Change, etc... If you want, I can give you more.


It's not just about them adapting, it's about the fact that the nature around them can't produce all kinds of foods, at least not with the current technology. Perhaps with time it could and that could solve the problem, but right now, it can't. And the areas of the world we're talking about aren't all that small.


I have to take a different tack now. The writing above sounds like policy wonk speak, which is fine by me. In a way, this is probably all pointless honestly, the powers that be (Aristocrazia Negra is my guess, what is yours?) will thin out the hurd of so-called "useless eaters" and institute war to get other global policies in place.

But if you want to talk policy. In Urban Areas and other areas there would need to be mandatory Vegan diet. Call such a zone a Blue Zone. Maybe the other places that are inhospitable will be Red or Orange or whatever... Then work out policies to get everyone in a Blue Zone, or they can go off on their own with First Contact Star Trek rules applied to the population left behind. The population is stabilizing so don't change much in the way of birth policy interestingly.

Unfortunately, people are addicts. Addicts do not change unless they have to, so policy will not work. So it will probably be World War III soon and other horrors and wonders to be unleashed by the followers of the snake. But who knows.

You're free to think as you wish, though I do hope you'd educate yourself a bit more about sensory issues if you plan to stick around on this forum. Not everyone's senses work like yours and if you don't have sensory issues then good for you, but many of us aren't so lucky. But yeah, let's end this here. It was getting very off topic anyway.

Listen up, I am only going to say this once, I am not here to baby you. There is no way I am letting you shame me on this forum bub... forget about it.

I have auditory issues. Most of the time I am fine, but some things mess with me (horror movies, my boyfriend sneezing and noseblowing...). And since you shared with the class, I will share in another way later.

So here is the other thing, when I was writing the section you took offense too, it did go off in my head, oh yeah, calling Fireblossom out for not wanting to watch some videos could definitely be douchy. But then it occured to me, you can get on this forum. You can read the text. You can look some of this stuff up on your own if you had some keywords. And then I got angry. The best way to understand this information for most people is through videos, an avenue of information denied. How convenient, or not, how would I know?

Interested, can you not just listen to a video on low as I proposed, or is that being "insensitive"?
For instance, do you live in a bubble world, or is it possible to get other info to you from other sources besides this forum? I am curious.

Here is my deal so the class knows. Extra Credit. It occured to me last night and came as an emotional relief. If I am prickly, there is a reason. I literally hate dumbness. Maybe you can hold that against me, but the thing is, my older brother who hit me, is dumber than I am. He projects his own insecurities on those around him, accusing others of being passive agressive when he is, blah blah blah.

My Mom is Avoident and the Queen of Denial. When NT's make excuses for other groups being provably ignorant, it bothers me. It reminds me of my Mom denying that my older brother is an issue. So if I seem in your face, it is probably to do with something like the above.

I don't know what your situation is Fireblossom, I wish you, and everyone else the very best. :D
I accept you for exactly who you are, neighbor :)


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16 Sep 2019, 4:46 pm

In regards to fat acceptance: people living in poverty in first world nations frequently cannot afford sufficient calories to eat a plant based diet. Secondly, a good selection of fresh fruits and vegetables is rarely found in food stores in areas where residents have little money. For these people, a vegan diet is largely unattainable.

If one is looking to make changes in lifestyles, including how much and of what kind of foods are eaten, shaming is likely an ineffective way to go about it.

I am a biologist and find some of the claims here made to fall suspiciously outside of the framework of human biology as I know it. Just to see what might be going on, I googled "what is a carnivore" and "are humans carnivores?" Interestingly the top hits were a PETA article and one from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. Googling the latter I learned it is an organization for the research and advocacy of a plant based diet.

Finally, I also don't watch videos, not because of sensory issues, but because I can absorb the relevant points in a fraction of the time it takes someone to give a speech about it. I just cannot stand the wasted time and boredom listening to a video. If you have to refer to a video, you probably don't have the concepts down solidly.


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tensordyne
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16 Sep 2019, 9:31 pm

In regards to fat acceptance: people living in poverty in first world nations frequently cannot afford sufficient calories to eat a plant based diet. Secondly, a good selection of fresh fruits and vegetables is rarely found in food stores in areas where residents have little money. For these people, a vegan diet is largely unattainable.

This is illogical. If the cause of obesity and many diseases is eating animal products (which it is) than what you are saying is that the reason we should not recommend everyone go Vegan is because it would currently be difficult. That is looking backwards instead of forwards.

If one is looking to make changes in lifestyles, including how much and of what kind of foods are eaten, shaming is likely an ineffective way to go about it.

True, but I am sooooooo tired of people's excuses. And if it is an addiction, which it has every sign of being, should I sugar coat it for you, with candy sprinkles on top? No, this is an intervention, get used to it.

I am a biologist and find some of the claims here made to fall suspiciously outside of the framework of human biology as I know it. Just to see what might be going on, I googled "what is a carnivore" and "are humans carnivores?" Interestingly the top hits were a PETA article and one from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. Googling the latter I learned it is an organization for the research and advocacy of a plant based diet.

Nathaniel Dominy, who as far as I know, does not have any ties to PETA, I gave a link to. There is another biologist lady that has similar but non-overlapping material that comes to the same conclusion.

I used to think like you did too. These people have an agenda that has nothing to do with reality. But what if you are wrong? Then it would make perfect sense to support PETA and The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. So you can't actually use their associations as a judge, because that is being prejudiced, which is what you sound like. Oh no, am I shaming you? Sorry. I call out peoples BS in not so nice ways.

What if they know the facts better than you, hmmm? I am glad you are a biologist. Please let me know what you found off. I would be interested in hearing. Nathaniel Dominy is also a biologist who specializes in Adaptive Morphology of Human and non-Human primates. I listened to his talk. Seemed pretty scientific and all that to me, but what do I know. I am a Physicist more than a Biologist.

So get back to me on the facts. Debate me with reason. Do what you want as far as that goes, I am just not going to play games on this one.


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16 Sep 2019, 9:39 pm

Tensordyne: This is off topic. You've already stated once in this thread that you weren't going to talk about this any longer but you persist. Personally I have nothing wrong with you arguing your viewpoint whatsoever, provided it's.....in a thread you start yourself about the merits of forced veganism.


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tensordyne
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17 Sep 2019, 1:50 pm

Tensordyne: This is off topic. You've already stated once in this thread that you weren't going to talk about this any longer but you persist. Personally I have nothing wrong with you arguing your viewpoint whatsoever, provided it's.....in a thread you start yourself about the merits of forced veganism.

And who will go on that thread? Do you want this thread to be a safe space so you all can whine and kumbaya on how bad it is for people saying you should feel bad about being fat. Well, you should feel bad (most of the time, except in rare cases). It is medically a disease that is completely avoidable and caused by your diet. Sorry.

So if you say this is a safe space, I will go away. I respect safe spaces, even if they are filled with delusional people. But here is why it is relevant.

The topic is Re: Obesity "Fat" acceptance movement in the U.S.

I don't accept the Fat acceptance movement. You all want to drive us over a cliff for your Mommy Flesh Addiction. Shame on you. Don't like my ideas, ignore me. Argue against me. Don't tell me what to do though unless it is for safety sake, which is why I am doing what I am doing right now. I worry about the safety of humanity.

You guys sound like smokers complaining about society saying smoking is bad. Oh, woe is me. Get off. You guys are full of it and won't own up, probably ever. Which is the waste of time I was referring to. Telling a fool they are a fool is not necessarily useless, if they are wise fools.

Good Day.


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17 Sep 2019, 1:52 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Finally, I also don't watch videos, not because of sensory issues, but because I can absorb the relevant points in a fraction of the time it takes someone to give a speech about it. I just cannot stand the wasted time and boredom listening to a video. If you have to refer to a video, you probably don't have the concepts down solidly.


How interesting, I thought I was the only one :lol: The fluff, gesticulation and all the "like me", "relate to me" theatrics also annoy and bore me, but it mostly boils down to not wanting to spend 15 minutes on something I could read in less than 5! I'll take a legit scientific study or paper (how about a book even?) over some dude ranting on YouTube every time :twisted:


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17 Sep 2019, 3:54 pm

tensordyne wrote:

And who will go on that thread? Do you want this thread to be a safe space so you all can whine and kumbaya on how bad it is for people saying you should feel bad about being fat. Well, you should feel bad (most of the time, except in rare cases). It is medically a disease that is completely avoidable and caused by your diet. Sorry.

So if you say this is a safe space, I will go away. I respect safe spaces, even if they are filled with delusional people. But here is why it is relevant.


I feel like your attitude is escalating here dude and includes personal attacks. I suggest you start a thread of your own or try to not derail the OP's thread. Can you do that for me dude ?


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tensordyne
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17 Sep 2019, 4:30 pm

Fine by me. I know when I have been shown the door.
I protest the very existence of this thread.

Plus, it is not a personal attack to say shame on a population's belief or persons appaling lack of argumentation skills. It is my right as a citizen of the US and the rules of this forum, as long as I base it on facts, reason and empathy, which I did. My critique and opinions are to get past your BS defenses, which I did, over, and over again.

Don't worry. I am now gone.
You no longer have to hear my righteous anger at how bad this thread is.


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17 Sep 2019, 4:57 pm

Read my post again , you have not been shown the door.

Unfortunately you do not govern what is a personal attack

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You are being provocative and belittling imo ( and it's my opinion that counts here ), if you are not able to have a debate without resorting to this , you need to take a breath before posting.

You are not in trouble , I have just asked you to stay on topic or start your own thread. If you can't see this , I suggest you take a breath. :)


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17 Sep 2019, 6:14 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:



Nice conspiracy. Fat Acceptance movement has been going on since the 1960's so this is nothing new. Even my mom knew about it because I remember her telling me in 2004 that there are people out there who want special rules and will complain and there are people who will complain about clothes sizes and companies not making them in their size. They will go "Oh I hate it they don't have clothes in my size, they are discriminating me." She told me they are not entitled to clothes and companies are not obligated to make clothes in all sizes and stores are not obligated to carry them in all sizes, just go to a store that does. Pretty much everyone will tell you if you are having a hard time finding clothes your size, you work on weight loss. I thought then she was making it up and using it as a hypothetical thing but I learned couple years ago she was serious when I saw the Fat Acceptance movement online.

50 years later, they still haven't gotten anywhere because science does not care about feelings. There is no fatphobia in the medical industry, there is no conspiracy against fat people. No, people are not refusing to give you a ride because you're fat, their vehicle really can't handle your weight and you will break their car and make it go to the shop. No clothing companies are not purposely not making clothes in your size because they hate fat people, it's because they cost too much money to make real big ones and there isn't enough demand to make them in that size. Stores are not carrying them because they hate fat people, it's because of not enough demand. Instead they sell them online where there is less demand and they can keep them in their main warehouse.

No doctors are not refusing to give you surgery and using weight loss as blackmail because they hate fat people, it's because there are too many risks. I could go on but you get the picture. They have a huge victim complex and don't know how delusional they sound when they talk. I honestly block them out when I hear that nonsense. It's like listening to flat hearth believers or the holocaust deniers or the Sandy Hook shooting staged believers.


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18 Sep 2019, 6:00 am

Regarding the original topic about fat acceptance, it's difficult to deal with, because our motivations conflict with one another.

We want people to be healthy and feel good, but we also want people to accept themselves and not feel insecure. We don't want to govern others' choices, but we also don't want people's poor choices to be glorified and influence others.

I don't think "fat acceptance" as a movement, or in a group context is, over all, a good thing. Most people are fat as a result of dietary and lifestyle choices, and they don't deliberately get fat because they want to be fat, so to an extent, what this movement is doing is encouraging the adoption or continuation of unhealthy habits, and potentially stifling people's progress towards a healthy weight range, because it's easier to say that everyone else and society is in the wrong for having a different perception of obesity than they do of a healthy weight and continue living the same way that made them obese in the first place. It's "other people are the real problem" syndrome. Even going as far as to reject medical facts so they feel better about their situation and justify not changing it.

I think we should continue encouraging everyone to work towards and maintain a healthy weight, and not glorify obesity, but also not put obese people down either. We should try to encourage them to lose the weight where it's appropriate to do so, and if they say they don't want to, we just have to accept their decision.

I also think that most people who are obese could benefit from psychological help, because most are probably depressed, and overeating as a biproduct of that depression I also think we'd do well to look at obesity (where it's caused by excessive or poor eating) as an eating disorder, and treat it as such. Maybe even treat it as an addiction for some.



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18 Sep 2019, 6:55 am

Big Food companies are solely to blame for this big problem of growing rates of obesity. What must be done is that governments must regulate and impose taxes that make unhealthy foods more expensive and make healthy foods cheaper. Sugar taxes have been imposed in Europe and are working to lower the rates of obesity.



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18 Sep 2019, 7:29 am

Rainbow_Belle wrote:
Big Food companies are solely to blame for this big problem of growing rates of obesity. What must be done is that governments must regulate and impose taxes that make unhealthy foods more expensive and make healthy foods cheaper. Sugar taxes have been imposed in Europe and are working to lower the rates of obesity.

Yeah, crack's illegal because it's addictive and it kills people. Meanwhile we have killer food that's designed for addiction.


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18 Sep 2019, 7:45 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Rainbow_Belle wrote:
Big Food companies are solely to blame for this big problem of growing rates of obesity. What must be done is that governments must regulate and impose taxes that make unhealthy foods more expensive and make healthy foods cheaper. Sugar taxes have been imposed in Europe and are working to lower the rates of obesity.

Yeah, crack's illegal because it's addictive and it kills people. Meanwhile we have killer food that's designed for addiction.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare junk food to crack, all things considered.