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Fnord
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23 Oct 2021, 2:34 pm

badRobot wrote:
Any conventional burger with a bun, even made of the best organic ingredients is fundamentally unhealthy due to typical macronutrient composition: High carb + high fat. I can't imagine context or conditions under which this combo can be healthy.
Do you consider "Beyond" burgers conventional?


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Minervx_2
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23 Oct 2021, 10:41 pm

badRobot wrote:
This is exactly why burgers are really-really unhealthy, high fat + high carb combo


Athletes and bodybuilders have eaten fat and carbs together for decades.

Keep in mind that vegetables with olive oil on them is still a fat+carbs combo.

An avacado is a fat + carb combo.



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23 Oct 2021, 10:46 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
High carb + high fat. I can't imagine context or conditions under which this combo can be healthy.


What do you do: only eat protein? As much as protein is healthy, no serious athlete is only eating 1 out of 3 macronutrients. Recommended protein amount of muscle building is 0.8-1g per lb of lean body mass. More than that is excess.

These are 2 macronutrients. Healthy diets can include all 3.

A healthy diet can include all 3 macronutrients. What order and time you consume them in is your preference, as long as your macronutritional and caloric goals are met.



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23 Oct 2021, 10:52 pm

auntblabby wrote:
i had me a shrimp and bacon and cheese burger the other day, i wonder how healthy THAT one was.


It depends on the diet as a whole.

The point is not cherrypicking 1 food, but looking at a person's meal plan across a day or across a week. How many calories a person eats a day, their TDEE, what distribution of macronutrients they're getting and what micronutrients they're getting.

My friend stays skinny year around, and she's seen eating pizza, fast food and ice cream. Why? She keeps her calories low. And the moments she eats junk food are 10-20% of the time. The other 80%+ is all healthy raw food.



badRobot
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23 Oct 2021, 11:08 pm

Minervx_2 wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
High carb + high fat. I can't imagine context or conditions under which this combo can be healthy.


What do you do: only eat protein? As much as protein is healthy, no serious athlete is only eating 1 out of 3 macronutrients. Recommended protein amount of muscle building is 0.8-1g per lb of lean body mass. More than that is excess.

No, I'm talking about combination of High fat + High carb.

Minervx_2 wrote:
A healthy diet can include all 3 macronutrients. What order and time you consume them in is your preference, as long as your macronutritional and caloric goals are met.

A healthy diet can include 2 macronutrients, carbs are not essential.



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23 Oct 2021, 11:42 pm

Minervx_2 wrote:
badRobot wrote:
This is exactly why burgers are really-really unhealthy, high fat + high carb combo


Athletes and bodybuilders have eaten fat and carbs together for decades.

Athletes who did that end up having heart disease and being insulin dependent when they retire.

Minervx_2 wrote:
Keep in mind that vegetables with olive oil on them is still a fat+carbs combo.

An avacado is a fat + carb combo.

Nope, carbs in green vegetables and avocados are mostly fiber.



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23 Oct 2021, 11:51 pm

I think to be fair burgers are unhealthy if eaten in excess of how much you burn calories (like any other foods).

If you are not physically active then you increase your risk as you consume fast food.

Homemade Burgers can be healthy if you select appropriate ingredients. Not rocket science.



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24 Oct 2021, 12:00 am

cyberdad wrote:
I think to be fair burgers are unhealthy if eaten in excess of how much you burn calories (like any other foods).

Calories don't matter. When you eat high fat and high carbs at the same time, you increase amount of dead glycated LDL particles which can't be withdrawn from bloodstream through normal mechanisms and end up in your blood vessel lining, leading to atherosclerosis. This is essentially the only instance of cholesterol actually being being "bad".



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24 Oct 2021, 4:15 am

badRobot wrote:
Calories don't matter. When you eat high fat and high carbs at the same time, you increase amount of dead glycated LDL particles which can't be withdrawn from bloodstream through normal mechanisms and end up in your blood vessel lining, leading to atherosclerosis.


It depends on how the meat is prepared and cooked. Grilled or oven baked and eaten in moderation is the key. Just simply sticking meat into a bun doesn't automatically make the meat unhealthy? Otherwise why not just say eating a vegetarian diet will reduce your risk of atherosclerosis?



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24 Oct 2021, 7:05 am

cyberdad wrote:
Just simply sticking meat into a bun doesn't automatically make the meat unhealthy? Otherwise why not just say eating a vegetarian diet will reduce your risk of atherosclerosis?


It does, different context, different effect. Properly implemented vegetarian diet can reduce your risk of atherosclerosis, just like properly implemented omnivorous diet, but the same principles of avoiding eating high amounts of fat with high amounts of carbs in one meal would apply.

I eat burger patties without buns and I sometimes eat jam sandwiches when I'm lifting weights, but I'm trying to avoid eating fatty meats with bread/pasta and bread with butter.



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24 Oct 2021, 7:36 am

What is it about the burger being in the bun that makes it so poisonous to the system. Does it have some kind of chemical reaction when put together.

I'm not really a fan of fast food type burgers to be honest but I do have a home made one once a week.

And what about a roast beef sandwich? Is that just as bad as a burger?


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24 Oct 2021, 8:05 am

babybird wrote:
What is it about the burger being in the bun that makes it so poisonous to the system. Does it have some kind of chemical reaction when put together.

I've already explained this combination is what creates majority of atherogenic LDL particles. Healthy LDL particles are harmless, but particles with glucose chains attached to the surface can't be withdrawn from blood stream through normal mechanisms and end up in blood vessel wall lining, causing plaques and inflammation. Spikes of blood glucose also damage glycocalyx, tiny hair that supposed to protect blood vessel walls from those damaged particles.



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24 Oct 2021, 8:44 am

badRobot wrote:
babybird wrote:
What is it about the burger being in the bun that makes it so poisonous to the system. Does it have some kind of chemical reaction when put together.

I've already explained this combination is what creates majority of atherogenic LDL particles. Healthy LDL particles are harmless, but particles with glucose chains attached to the surface can't be withdrawn from blood stream through normal mechanisms and end up in blood vessel wall lining, causing plaques and inflammation. Spikes of blood glucose also damage glycocalyx, tiny hair that supposed to protect blood vessel walls from those damaged particles.


Thanks Dr BadRobot...and does this apply to all meat sandwiches or is it just burgers?


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badRobot
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24 Oct 2021, 10:51 am

babybird wrote:
badRobot wrote:
babybird wrote:
What is it about the burger being in the bun that makes it so poisonous to the system. Does it have some kind of chemical reaction when put together.

I've already explained this combination is what creates majority of atherogenic LDL particles. Healthy LDL particles are harmless, but particles with glucose chains attached to the surface can't be withdrawn from blood stream through normal mechanisms and end up in blood vessel wall lining, causing plaques and inflammation. Spikes of blood glucose also damage glycocalyx, tiny hair that supposed to protect blood vessel walls from those damaged particles.


Thanks Dr BadRobot...and does this apply to all meat sandwiches or is it just burgers?

Yes, it does apply to any meal that consists of high fat and high carb content at the same time.



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24 Oct 2021, 11:06 am

Oh yeah you said that before


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30 Oct 2021, 12:48 pm

badRobot wrote:
A healthy diet can include 2 macronutrients, carbs are not essential.


Not enough carbs in your diet leads to ketosis, which is not a healthy state to be in.