Psychopathy -- the bad fairy at the neurodiversity ball

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http://www.hare.org/

In regard to what you state in your post, above, Hare did an interview where he mentioned that even 'he' can be "fooled" by Psychopathic students that have attended his classes, and stated that one particular Psychopath was able to dupe him for almost 3 months. So, if the leading expert/researcher in the field of Psychopathy can be fooled, it would be apparent that the Psychopath is successful with all types, be it folks on the Spectrum, Neurotypical folks, or the Bob Hares of the universe.

Last edited by delaSHANE on 23 Nov 2013, 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

I wonder in what way he was "duped". The best way to not be manipulated is to not be emotionally involved with anyone. It is easy to be fooled when you think you're getting a good deal though. I've been tricked before but it only works once.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I12H7khht7o[/youtube]

I think that was a great video everyone should watch. It goes to show that its bad actions that make someone a bad person regardless of how their brain works. "Pro-social psychopaths" would describe the people I know who I mentioned earlier and I even see some of it in myself. You don't need empathy or feelings to do the right thing.

I can't tell. I've known some seriously batshit crazy people though. They are usually filed in my mind under "batshit crazy" when they are like that, unlike somebody that has a mental illness that they are working on or being treated for.

Yeah, I'm not a psychopath myself, but I don't like it when ppl generalize. Antisocial PD and Psychopathy differ. James Fallon explained it in another video that way that you need for a coldblooded serial killer two things:
- the genes
- and the environment

So lets say someone already has low empathy and is more prone to violence AND he/she has had a bad childhood or other negative influences, they are at high risk to develope severe antisozial behaviour. But some had so negative influences from early on and maybe also another mental disorder that makes them prone for antisocial behaviour without having any psychopathic traits. Other ppl like James Fallon on the other hand have psychopathic traits, but he had a loving childhood, so he has developed actually quite normal. You can't reduce the person to just one aspect.

... and I think he is right, who want's to have a surgeon who can't do the surgery, because he/she is getting an anxiety attac in a critical moment? You need ppl for that who are able to stay calm, even in extreme situations. Not all ppl who have low empathy go and harm ppl, that's a myth.

Last edited by Raziel on 23 Nov 2013, 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

True. Like folks on the Autism Spectrum, all psychopaths do not posses all of the possible traits/behaviors. However, they must posses particular traits/characteristics, in order to be diagnosed with the disorder.

Usually Psychopathy just gets dx as a disorder when it is severe, also because saying that someone is a "psychopath" is very stigmatizing.
But it is recognized that it has a wide spectrum, like autism or schizophrenia for example who also have wider spectrums. And I personally believe that on the milder end on the psychopath spectrum it can have some advantages when ppl don't get too emotional in certain situations.

I must admit you're not tipping my (already prejudiced) scales in favour of thinking that psychopaths are much-maligned and misunderstood creatures.

Otherwise Ian Brady would be a folk-hero.

Psychiatry has proven to be able to dx every disorder together and that it is in most cases even more likely if you have one disorder also to have another.

There are many many studies who show an overlapp between schizotypal and autism:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20933368
http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/02 ... -disorders
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3655150/
... there is a lot more about it.

I rather have the feeling that some psychiatrists don't like dx certain disorders together because they wish a clear cut between disorders, but psychiatry isn't that easy and even sometimes describe highly overlapping symptoms.

Last edited by Raziel on 02 Dec 2013, 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I always thought anti-social personality disorder was a conduct disorder. These people have emotional instability which is something I have so I could never be a psychopath. I read in a recent study that psychopaths actually could feel emotions but could decide when to feel them or not. It seems they have a lot of control over emotions unlike an anti-social PD.

I seem to be a social manipulator. I can usually say the right things to get people to feel sorry for me or let me get my own way. Sometimes I don't notice it. I wouldn't go out of my way to be nice to people to trick them out of money or turn them against people. That sounds way too exhausting and well a bit of a b*****d thing to do. I think I just need to have everything working out for me always because I function best with structure and get really upset when things don't go my own way. This is a core trait of pathological demand avoidance syndrome but it's impossible to find a doctor that will treat you for it. It's extreme anxiety and avoidance over having to follow other's orders which I have bad. But defiance can come out of it and other types of manipulating behaviour. I've been close to going over that threshold but I think it's mostly because of my mania.

I relate to what spacemonkeypaal says about the constant battle in your head about doing what is good verse what is bad. I don't really know how to explain it but living in constant fear of people telling you what to do which just increases my anxiety can actually make me think some very violent thoughts, stabbing people etc just to get away from this feeling about being backed up against a wall. I also have PTSD and when it was most severe I could hardly trust myself around people who passed me on the street. I had a kill before being killed policy which I never did but I thought it enough it felt like I had.
It's interesting that PDA does seem like psychopathic autism because it's seen as a sub type of autism. What's worse is the anxiety can either trigger mania or depression, so it's not just thoughts of violence but delusions about those people around me. I read an article about a man with schizophrenia who killed his family members because the voices he heard were them talking behind his back. I can actually relate to that now.

spacemonkeypaal, you make me feel like less of a monster. My thoughts can be hideous and I try to write them off as OCD intrusions but they are not just random imagery, they're triggered by severe anxiety.

It's probably not a good idea when I read this thread when I've been manic today, especially when I've experienced the anxiety I've just described above. But I'd never commit acts of violence against people because I would feel deeply guilty about it and I normally do love people, but severe stress and anxiety can take my mind to very dark places.

Thanks for those links, Raziel. I have a lot more to learn, it seems. A good thing that researching anything mind/brain related, has become one of my hard-core obsessions.

Bloody Hell, what a burden to carry. Has diagnosis been a relief for you? What therapy/medication avenues does it open for you?

Key difference between psychopath and clueless AS person: the clueless AS person will seek to pay - and likely OVERPAY - for any transgressions once he/she becomes aware of them (although you may need to explain things much more explicitly and literally than with a NT.) The psychopath will just rationalize ALL personal responsibility away, blaming anyone else he/she can, and NEVER change his/her behavior - and "playing dumb" will most likely NOT involve taking everything literally!

Why doesn't the doctor just say what he really means - that the DSM is useless.

Antisocial people don't have severe anxiety. This diagnosis makes no sense to me.

If you have bipolar disorder, you may be narcissistic/antisocial at times. That doesn't mean you are a narcissist or antisocial person. I would get a new doctor.

I agree.