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LadySera
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19 Mar 2012, 5:47 am

I know this is long but if someone who knows anything about temporary disability and head shrinkers could look at the bolded parts and let me know their thoughts I'd really appreciate it.

I started seeing a therapist almost a year ago. I have also been trying to get on disability (I've been denied and am appealing) because of my terrible failures at not really being able to hold down any job. My father wanted me to see someone who could prescribe medicine. I think his belief is that this is a sign of trying to "do something" for my depression/social anxiety. (I've been seeing a licensed social worker that was being paid, somehow, by the state, she doesn't do that). I couldn't get anyone to take me because I didn't have healthcare. So eventually he wore me down into going to the only place that would (this terrible clinic that I had a very bad experience at in the past so even just being in there makes everything worse). I eventually complied 2 or 3 months ago because my depression has increased exponentially with the death of my dog. I actually thought that something would help me, which I now realize was incredibly naive.

The first visit there they throw me in a room with a loud, billing lady prior to the session (they did that afterwards the other time I had come, I was not prepared). When I tried to give her my father's income info (as I have none) she became very angry with me. She also chastised me for offhandedly saying f**k when it seemed like they were not going to take me, making me feel like a small child. This resulted in me having a panic attack and a meltdown simultaneously and then hiding/crying in the bathroom. I would have left the building and walked home but my dad made me feel bad about everything. So eventually he tells me that he's worked it out. I go hide in the bathroom some more and eventually the CRNP (female because I could not go through the screaming and sexual harassment again like I had endured from the last male that I did not want years ago there) who was assigned to me comes in and gets me. She seems (possibly) nice at this point.


I'm super freaked out and now have to tell my whole life story/problems to her in 40 minutes while wishing I could melt into the floor. She's convinced that I'm cuckoo bananas and immediately starts writing out a form for me to get on temporary medical disability.


Then she sends me home with 2 types of sample antidepressant meds, 1 of which always causes weight gain despite my telling her about my disordered eating issues (she doesn't believe they are real unless I was actually barfing everything up or not eating at all, I'm not thin and she probably weighs 100lbs soaking wet so I think that goes into it). I do not take the weight gain one. I take the other (that she says will help me sleep, my insomnia was even worse then, it does) but it causes swollen ankles and wrists, painful swelling at that. I have to stop taking that when I realize that's what must be causing it.

On my next visit she tells me she's "never heard of that and maybe I'm eating salt" (OMG,ugh) and tells me to take half as much. Within 2 days the swelling is back. I stop taking that again. So at this point (in the retelling) I now realize that she has never taken anything I say seriously or with a grain of salt.

When my insurance kicks in she puts me on Zoloft. I tell my therapist (who I like) that I'm a afraid to take it. She tells me not to look up the side effects so I don't worry. I only check for weight gain. It seems to be hit or miss and only at high doses over a long period of time. I do notice scary claims here and there online but I assume it's rare or they are oversensitive. I take this (a low dose) for a month. Nothing happens. I mean I don't have any side effects but I don't feel different at all. So she doubles it, which I knew she was going to do.

At this point I'm not even really thinking about it because it seems to not be doing anything but at least it's not doing anything bad.

Then within a week of starting this double dose I almost committed suicide in my bathroom after 2-3 days of severe depression/anxiety/anger/increased agoraphobia not due to any outside stimulus. It's only when I step back from the situation that I rationally understand that though I want it all to end there isn't a reason. There were a few times when I had seriously considered it in the past but it was always due to something big happening or (not happening) in my life.

I stopped taking it. Then I took stock of the last week. Other things had been happening, I was arguing with everyone (I was super angry and felt like I wanted to hit someone). I had two hallucinatory dreams. One of which I thought might have happened and mean that I was now schizophrenic (like my deceased aunt). Then I was able to concede that it was definitely a dream due to my wearing other clothes in it.

The apathy had also come on in that week too but it sort of snuck up on me so I didn't notice until I thought back on everything. I've been taught/raised my whole life that everything wrong is my fault. It was then that I sat down and went through about 6 different antidepressants I had tried in the last decade. (some mine, some not). Eventually all of them had unmanageable side effects. (Before you say I was on "the wrong one", I now have researched them, they were different kinds, put out in different time frames, different classes, etc.) None every made me happy (I know, they are not supposed to do that, so what's the point?). The one that seemed to be working to others (because I was tired, apathetic and docile all of the time) flattened me out too (of course) but then what happens is that my anxiety/depression is so bad that they just break through. So now you have someone without any interest in anything who is more upset than before.

I had to know if anyone else had these problems with the Zoloft. An engrossing online search and some documentaries showed me that the suicide/homicide incidents with Zoloft (and other antidepressants) happens a lot. I also educated myself by reading all of those reports by actual doctors that said that the serotonin thing is a completely unproven hypothesis, that (aside from the bad side effects) these pills only seem to work on people who believe they will (i.e. as placebos) and that the case studies are usually altered significantly. There were also horror stories from long time users of antidepressants who now were addicted to them despite still being depressed and were afraid to go off.

I went off cold turkey and went through what could only be described as the DDTs which were particularly freaky to someone like me who has never been a recreational drug user and has only seen them in movies.

Last time I saw my actual therapist I told her that these drugs do not do anything for me. I concede that possibly there are some that they help (whether by placebo effect or some really have that "chemical imbalance") but I am not one of them. I'm not going to keep experimenting with my body with them. She seems to agree with me (but she always does so it's a measurement of nothing). I don't want to go back to that tiny angry woman at the end of the month, my next appointment. This therapist tries to talk me into seeing one of their psychs (since I'm now covered). I don't know how I feel about that as (despite liking this woman's demeanor) when push came to shove months ago she conceded with the state that I shouldn't get disability (after always telling me in her office that she didn't know why they hadn't given it to me).

So basically I can't trust anyone. My big question though is that if I did want to go somewhere else (there are a ton of professionals covered by this insurance, not all that far away), could the CRNP who signed my paper rescind my medical coverage because she is the one who granted it? (because she's angry or whatever)

I just don't know what to do. I find it hard enough to talk to anyone. I know everyone always recommends trying different docs but I'm scared and now don't know who has power over me.

P.S. The reason that the medical insurance is so important to me is that I am now able to see the therapist more often (and it does seem to help to get stuff off my chest, since usually no one else will listen to me). Plus I hadn't had any coverage or treatment for other health problems in years so now I've been able to do so.

P.P.S. Despite mine and my therapist's suggestion and my giving her the woman's number this CRNP never made any effort to actually get my therapy files and learn anything about me. Other than the initial visit every other visit is about 10 minutes.



questor
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19 Mar 2012, 6:37 am

I was on several different psych drugs as a child and teenager. None of them helped me, and all had unpleasant side effects. I eventually took myself off the last one I was taking, without telling my parents or the doctor, because I was fed up and decided not to put up with being doped up any more. The only good thing that I got out of these drug therapies was a huge aversion to taking mind and mood altering drugs, including illegal ones, so I never got involved with those. As an adult, over the years I looked into different drugs to deal with depression, but always found they had bad side effects, many had a record of leading to violent behavior and/or suicide attempts, and also some of them were addictive, so I never followed through with getting any of these poisons.

I prefer to manage my own treatment with my coping mechanisms. The main things are to keep stress to a minimum, and to keep occupied and distracted. Some ways to do that are:

- Exercise, the endorphins it releases are mood boosters.
- Read funny stories, and watch funny TV shows. Laughter also releases endorphins and boosts the mood.
- Eat healthier.
- Get plenty of rest.
- Listen to and/or play music. That can boost the mood, also.
- Hobbies.
- Take courses, either in person or online. Some online ones are free.
- Volunteer, that can boost the mood, too.
- Join a club.
- Surf the web.
- Play computer games.

Bear in mind that it isn't necessary to do all of these things. Even doing a few is a help. Besides using coping methods like those above, I suggest that you make a list of your problems to take with you on visits to any psych docs/therapists from now on. I would include on the list that the way you have been treated by psych staff up to now has given you the impression that they don't take your psych problems, and your drug reactions seriously, which has left you feeling somewhat leery of therapy, and totally against taking dangerous meds.

Hope my input helps. :D


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LadySera
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19 Mar 2012, 10:27 am

Thank you for your suggestions and for sharing. Some of those things do seem to help a bit and I also do them from time to time. Plus I like to sing, even to myself, despite feeling like Little Voice from to time.

I usually do jot down some notes about whatever I want to talk about with the therapist prior to going because when I get in there I'm too scared to think of things offhand. She seems empathetic about the other people that haven't worked for me so far but when I brought up why I was now not as trusting of her she made a nonsensical excuse and changed the subject.



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19 Mar 2012, 1:19 pm

I got to the part where you said she told you not to look at the side effects so you don't get anxious...how incompetent of her. Seriously, always look at the side effects and really familiarize yourself with any medication or drug you take, and consider if the benefits outweigh the risks and all that. Anyways I am sorry you have to deal with such incompetency........and now back to reading the rest of your post.


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LadySera
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19 Mar 2012, 7:01 pm

Thanks, yeah it was due to my anxiety.

Now I'm thinking that I'm just going to have to find a better (for me) competent actual psychiatrist (who talks to you and doesn't just do that 10 minute drug consult) in the same practice as the latter one, get them familiarized with everything via my therapist and then actually agree to try a lose dose of something. (more specifically my father will have to since I either because "erratic" or unable to speak when trying to do something like that),

Or maybe not take them and learn to lie about it (like lots of other people). I'm just so terrible at lying, I'd be the worst poker player. I don't know.

Losing all medical after working so hard to get it all seems foolish, but I'm still afraid, of course.



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19 Mar 2012, 7:06 pm

LadySera wrote:
Thanks, yeah it was due to my anxiety.

Now I'm thinking that I'm just going to have to find a better (for me) competent actual psychiatrist (who talks to you and doesn't just do that 10 minute drug consult) in the same practice as the latter one, get them familiarized with everything via my therapist and then actually agree to try a lose dose of something. (more specifically my father will have to since I either because "erratic" or unable to speak when trying to do something like that),

Or maybe not take them and learn to lie about it (like lots of other people). I'm just so terrible at lying, I'd be the worst poker player. I don't know.

Losing all medical after working so hard to get it all seems foolish, but I'm still afraid, of course.


I would look into a better psychiatrist, it sounds like the one your going to is what I would describe as a pill pusher. The whole telling you not to go over the side effects was a major sign of that to me. I can understand this sort of thing is very frustrating though and I hope things work out.


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LadySera
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21 Mar 2012, 12:02 pm

I'm sure people are bored with this by now but today something happened that was just so ridiculous that I had to share.

I told my father that I can't get along with this CRNP and needed him to call the office and see if I could get in with another person, preferably a psychiatrist. They made me get on the phone for a minute (my therapist's office never forces me on the phone). Then they told him that the only way I can get a different person is that they'd send me papers and I have to file a formal grievance against her. (They also had him set up a new appointment with her for about a month from now which would be after I'd made this theoretical complaint. That makes even less sense.) I talked to my family about this and we agreed that it's quite ridiculous. Just because we didn't click doesn't mean that I want to make a complaint against her. They should have just let me try another professional. My family agreed with me on this.

Plus as my father and I talked about I would be considered a problem and be treated worse because I would be the girl who was just going around complaining about people. I do not like that practice but I was trying to stay there because they got me on the medical and I was worried about losing it. This is ridiculous though.

We are going to see if I can get an appointment with a psychiatrist at my therapist's office instead as they seem to be more logical.



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21 Mar 2012, 5:46 pm

Alas, I can't help you with the struggle against the medical bureaucracy (I feel your pain since I've been there myself, but things work differently in my country). But I'd like to recommend some alternative over-the-counter meds that have helped me a great deal with my anxiety and depression. I've been on mirtazapine and venlafaxine for a short time, and neither of those drugs worked for me. I wasn't myself anymore and felt listless and more depressed than before. One side effect of all SSRIs is suicidal ideation, as you've experienced yourself. It's a bad joke that these drugs are prescribed for depression. They might work well for people with a serotonin imbalance, but not for me.

I now take a prescription-free antidepressant called hypericum, also known as St. John's wort. It has a very mild serotonergic effect, but it also elevates dopamine levels, which makes all the difference. What's more important, I haven't noticed any side effects so far. Make sure that you buy a highly dosed extract and not a homeopathic sham product. I take 650 mg pills and have gone up to 1.1/2 pills per day. Hypericum might also help with your insomnia since it causes tiredness, but not to the point where you'd have trouble to stay awake during the day. If you are anything like me, the dopamine kick should offset the tiredness and make you a lot more active and focused.

Vitamin B supplements also help me a lot. Vitamin B deficiency seems to be quite common among aspies and is often responsible for anxiety and depression. I take 30 mg of vitamin B6 and 10 mg of vitamin B2 each day, plus moderate amounts of magnesium (1/2 pill per day). Don't take the entire palette of B vitamins, because some of them can cause liver problems in higher doses. The most important one is B6, which is nearly impossible to overdose. The same goes for B2, which helps with vitamin B6 absorption.

Vitamin C and D are also essential for nerve health, and a deficiency can also result in depression and anxiety. If you don't eat a lot of fruit, you might want to supplement vitamin C. And if you rarely leave the house due to anxiety, you need to offset the lack of sunlight exposure with vitamin D3 supplements.
To better cope with stressful social situations, I recommend one or two cups of camomile tea before leaving the house. Valerian and hops pills also work great for me, although they make me a little tired and drowsy. But when I have to be out and about for several hours, it's better to be tired than being a nervous wreck.

These natural drugs and supplements have helped me more than any prescription drug. I believe the only reason that drugs like hypericum (which has been proven to work in clinically studies btw) is not being prescribed is that natural drugs can't be patented. Medicine and pharmacology are profit-oriented businesses, and the health of the patient is only a secondary concern. You are completely right that you can't really trust anyone in the medical business. The only person who only has your best interests in mind is yourself.



LadySera
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21 Mar 2012, 11:24 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. After I stopped taking the Zoloft I dug out and bought some new vitamins including St. John's Wort and B12. I took St. John's Wort a while back & didn't feel that it did anything. However I feel like even if this stuff doesn't do anything at least it's not hurting me. I've also heard of Inositol for anxiety but I haven't had a chance to buy any yet.

I agree with you about them just wanting to make money. I also agree with you that I am really theonly person who can decide anything for myself.

I do realize that my depression is another byproduct of my anxiety which prevents me from living any sort of real life. I can't help it, I'm a realist. I feel that someone would be completely stupid to not be depressed when they don't really live and everyone they love keeps dying (my family has suffered a lot of death).



LadySera
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27 Mar 2012, 4:57 pm

I just had to share this odd tidbit from today.

I had my first appointment with a GP. I felt like I shouldn't lie so on the new patient form so I wrote depression & anxiety but mentioned that I was seeing a therapist. So She goes, "just a therapist? Not someone who prescribes medication?". So I very briefly say that I'm trying to get into to see a doctor at the therapist's practice because the CRNP that had just tried to give me medications wasn't working out.

I mentioned that she had me on Zoloft (after trying to downplay other side effects of another med) and I'd had terrible side effects (I didn't go into details) & she says "that's the safest one (WTF?!?), if that didn't work then maybe none of them would work on you".

Umm, while that had been my thought due to going through my past history with other meds and reading up on their so called benefits it seemed like an odd thing for her to say. Plus I feel that I couldn't just be like "well I might not end up taking anymore antidepressants" because then you are seen as uncooperative.



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31 Mar 2012, 9:24 pm

Ok.

First off, if you have insurance, you have insurance. It doesn't matter who helped you get approved, at least not that I've ever heard of (maybe some states are weird). If you can't get in with the psych at your therapist's office (which is a very good idea--they should be exchanging information anyway), call your insurance company and ask what providers they cover.

Re: the Zoloft incident. . .it sounds like you may have had a hypomanic episode induced by the Zoloft. If *I* were your provider, I'd not put you on another SSRI. Quitting it cold turkey probably did more harm than good, though (it's a good thing you weren't on it all that long; it could have been worse) and caused those symptoms to worsen. There are other types of antidepressants, though.

Re: the St. John's Wort: not considered very effective/can interfere with hormonal birth control, but there is some evidence that Omega-3s (Fish Oil) are. You have to take a good bit, though (some people take up to 4 times a day; I take 1000 mg 2x a day because that's all I can remember).

There is a book by a Dr. named Jim Phelps called "Why Am I Still Depressed" that has a lot of good information that I think you could use. He also has a website www.psycheducation.org. I agree with the poster that suggested exercise, sunlight. . .but you shouldn't stop seeing a therapist/psychiatrist, especially after a suicide attempt.

Also, your GP sounds like a dip.

None of this is medical or psychological advice, blah blah blah.