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melodylynette
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25 Jun 2011, 1:33 am

I have recently been diagnosed with BPD w/ SPD (thought it was Asperger's at first). Since then I have been doing a lot of reading. Looking at the causes, I noticed that childhood abuse was one of the main ones. I thought back on my childhood and noticed some odd things. Growing up my father was never around because he was always working. All he talked about was his work and what great things his boss was saying about him. When he was around he was critical and never empathic. I am 34 and still can not make him happy. He is very manipulating and controlling. In the public's eye he's this great wonderful father/husband/grandfather but at home he's pretty much an as*hole. I can count on one hand how many times he has told me he loved me. I remember begging him, when I was around 15 year old, to tell me that he loved me, because I had never heard him say it. When I was raped at age 16 I called him to come get me and help me, he told me it was my own fault and to walk home. Just last year he told me that he was ashamed of me and that I embarrass him. I am actually frightened to piss him off. I call him daily to talk and it's always about him and what he is doing. Did my father do this to me intentionally?

I swear he's suffering from NPD and he's now 69. There's no hope for him. I am so worried about my mom. They have been married for 37 years and she is COMPLETELY dependent on him. He doesn't let her drive, have access to their bank account, or even wear what she wants. She is severely depressed and angry. She calls me crying daily. He has her convinced SHE'S CRAZY. I did enlighten her on the NPD idea and her mood did change a little tonight. I keep telling her to leave and come live with me. She says she can't because she wouldn't know what to do without him. Can I save my mom?



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25 Jun 2011, 6:01 am

yes, I agree. I made the connection after my 2nd year of studying psychology at my university. Ive been diagnosed with anxiety and a mild form of Borderline PD

My mom is very narcessistic and only thinks of herself. She is highly manipulative and confused me a lot as a child. When I acted like she wanted me to, did what she wanted me to and things were going her way she was sweet and nice and a great mom. but at the slightest sign of opposition she went crazy and yelled at my brother, me and my dad. Around other people and in public she acted all nice and proper so everyone liked her. Only me, my brother and my dad saw the REAL her at home and how nasty she was. She used to threaten to abandon me under a bridge or something when I would yell back at her. I used to stand my ground till I was 15 but at that point I just lost it and began to agree with her on everything so that there would be peace in the household. when i was depressed and was contemplating suicide she told me if I really wanted to die, I should go die deep in a forest so that I woudnt bother anybody in the process. what kind of mother is that...

Our families are reversed, my dad is a very nice man and works hard and is under the control of my mom. He is so afriad of losing her and being alone that he just bends to her will, she controls him like a remote control car.



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25 Jun 2011, 8:19 pm

I don't know. I was abused as a child, sexually, and I had a very difficult relationship with my mother afterwards. I developed a lot of issues later on, generally that I self harmed (but it was never a controlled thing, or done for attention, rather it was done through sheer frustration and rage at the lack of understanding in my family, and my inability to understand people at school, and at a sense of powerlessness) and I took a lot of overdoses to try and get out of my family environment and into hospital, which I saw as organised, secure and safe. I did not even have a boyfriend or mix with people, so how the shrink ever came to this diagnosis, I do not know. The way I see it is that I was born on the autistic spectrum, my naivety resulted in my getting sexually abused, my parents reacted badly to that abuse, and I reacted badly to all the bullying and the emotional issues I experienced with my mother and at school.

I do not think personally, that having a borderline diagnosis, rules out an ASD because one is born of abuse usually, and the other is something you are born with. My doctor agreed with me on my being on the autistic spectrum, and friends who knew me at school for 7-8 years, and who now both work in the health profession, and have an Aspergers child, told me that they discussed my a long time ago and concluded I myself have aspergers. But yes, I also have some emotional issues from my abuse, who wouldn't ? It has also been said that there have been cases where Aspergers has been misdiagnosed as bpd, because left unrecognised, Aspergers/ASDs can cause a multitude of issues and a lot of distress to the individual which can culminate in borderline like traits. Where is the line? Already it has been said that 1 in 10 females with anorexia are suspected of being on the spectrum...another reason I got the bpd diagnosis...I had anorexia. I have little to no faith in the psychiatric profession anymore. Even people on a message board for relatives of those with bpd, asked me if I am sure I had it as I didn't act like anyone they had come across with it.

It is about time more research was done into what happens to girls on the autistic spectrum, who go undiagnosed when young. There have been a few articles on it, but not nearly enough is being done, nor on what happens when someone with Aspergers suffers abuse.



melodylynette
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26 Jun 2011, 1:07 am

I am pretty sure they are correct on the BPD diagnosis (even though I have serious sensory and social issues). Some of the things this was based on was:

-I have had MANY jobs, but most of them have been waitressing. I have no problem going up to someone and talking to them. I would usually get fired for going off on people.

-I have good handwritting and good motor skills. I walked early, can ride a bike, and type 80 wpm.

-I can read people's facial expression and have great intuition.

-I can empathize and sympathize with people, even though I have issues with knowing what to say. I just don't want to upset anyone.



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26 Jun 2011, 9:28 am

I can ride a bike, and so can 2 males I know who have Aspergers actually.
However, I am prone to being clumsy in other ways, always knocking into things, and I cannot read faces that well, and empathy, in the traditional sense of being able to put myself into the shoes of someone else, appears to not be there and to never have been there, even as a child.
I actually try sometimes and force it, but it simply is not there, unless I sit and intellectually work it all out.
So yes, maybe you do have BPD.



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01 Jul 2011, 4:56 am

melodylynette wrote:
I have recently been diagnosed with BPD w/ SPD (thought it was Asperger's at first). Since then I have been doing a lot of reading. Looking at the causes, I noticed that childhood abuse was one of the main ones. I thought back on my childhood and noticed some odd things. Growing up my father was never around because he was always working. All he talked about was his work and what great things his boss was saying about him. When he was around he was critical and never empathic. I am 34 and still can not make him happy. He is very manipulating and controlling. In the public's eye he's this great wonderful father/husband/grandfather but at home he's pretty much an as*hole. I can count on one hand how many times he has told me he loved me. I remember begging him, when I was around 15 year old, to tell me that he loved me, because I had never heard him say it. When I was raped at age 16 I called him to come get me and help me, he told me it was my own fault and to walk home. Just last year he told me that he was ashamed of me and that I embarrass him. I am actually frightened to piss him off. I call him daily to talk and it's always about him and what he is doing. Did my father do this to me intentionally?

I swear he's suffering from NPD and he's now 69. There's no hope for him. I am so worried about my mom. They have been married for 37 years and she is COMPLETELY dependent on him. He doesn't let her drive, have access to their bank account, or even wear what she wants. She is severely depressed and angry. She calls me crying daily. He has her convinced SHE'S CRAZY. I did enlighten her on the NPD idea and her mood did change a little tonight. I keep telling her to leave and come live with me. She says she can't because she wouldn't know what to do without him. Can I save my mom?


I do believe the environment you were raised in could cause BPD in certain individuals. Being you do have BPD, realize it may be difficult for you to judge a situation in context, and while considering all of the facts, to reach a reasonable conclusion. Because of this, it would be wise to have a therapist or someone to consult with on matters such as suggesting your mother to live with you.

You might very well be correct in your conclusion that your mother is in an unhealthy environment but people with BPD tend to see things how they have constructed them in their head and now how things really are. That's not your fault. That's a result of the abuse you were subjected to destroying or prohibiting your ability to properly analyze situations.



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01 Jul 2011, 11:30 am

Melodylynette, I was surprised to find your story, because mine is almost identical. My father, too, is a narcissist and raised me the same way, and I have also ended up BPD. I definitely think there may be a strong connection between a narcissistic parent and a borderline child. It makes a lot of sense and I have read several articles that support the theory. Many people say that it is possible to recover. I hope they're right. Maybe ask your therapist, if you have one, about options, and take a look at some self-help books.
Also, has your mother ever considered divorcing him? My parents divorced when I was 14 years old, and now my mum and I are both working very hard to recover and become whole people again. It may be a little late for your family but - better late than never, hm? :)
Anyways. I hope everything will be okay. Good luck! :)



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19 Jul 2011, 9:41 am

Keep in mind also that while you'd like to help your mother, it's fundamentally up to her if she wants your help.

You need to make sure to take care of yourself. Monitor your stress levels carefully, and set boundaries to make sure you aren't dealing with too much stress. Are you getting counseling? From what I understand, intensive counseling is quite important for BPD.

Narcissistic people suck as parents. They're too self-centered to pay attention to their kids' needs, and many use their kids to satisfy their own needs, such as pushing a kid to be perfect so they can brag about the kid. There's also overlap between Narcissism and psychopathy. (There seems to be two subtypes of narcissism - one that overlaps with BPD and one that overlaps with psychopathy.)



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25 Jul 2011, 9:31 am

I'm not sure exactly what my Mother's diagnosis is, she is narcissitic, her whole world revolves around her and how she feels about everything, my Dad my sister and I have to fit around her needs. Everything always has to be her way. She is unaware of our needs most of the time. Like when I was a teenager it was my friend's mum that bought me a bra. My mother was oblivious to the fact the my needs were changing.

But when I learned about austism things made alot more sense to me. She has very sensitive senses, like I would make soup and she would complain about the smell at the top of her voice. She should have been glad I was eating healthy food, but that never occured to her. The smell was so offensive to her senses.

She can flare up over anything and start shouting at us for apparently no reason what-so-ever. She doesn't even seem to know she's doing it.

She wonders why I don't confide in her, but you can never tell what sort of reaction you are going to get, so there's no point. My sister was upset about something one day and my mum shouted at her, she didn't comfort her. She wasn't angry at my sister, she was angry at the person who hurt my sister, but her brain just knew she was angry and that's how she behaved. She has no filter, no way of processing her emotions. It's really hard to deal with. I stay away from her as much as I can.

I don't have good mental health and I have little self-confidence, which is hardly surprising. I wasn't given a supportive environment growing up.



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28 Aug 2011, 10:33 pm

I believe there's a connection.



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03 Jan 2016, 7:01 pm

I completely agree - with a twist. Although it's only a theory, I believe that a Narcissistic parent (particularly a mother since that is where we are supposed to learn unconditional love from) produces a Borderline child but ONLY if that child was the 'Scapegoat' child. If the child was the 'Golden child' I do not believe this to be true since they did not suffer the abuse that the other child did. Now if the child of a NPD is an only child I believe they are more likely to become NPD but that's a whole other subject.

I am the daughter (scapegoat) of an NPD mother and suffered great emotional abuse. My mother saw me as her competition and my name growing up was always 'little b***h'. My father was a passive, try to get along with everyone, hard working, stay with mom for the sake of the children, tried to be my shield as much as he could, but unfortunetly didn't have the balls to stand up to his wife. I love my father don't get me wrong- without him I would probably have killed myself as a child, but instead of standing up to her he decided to work as much as he could to stay gone and distance himself from her poisonous words (he was never good enough, made enough money, or did anything right in her eyes). My younger brother (golden child) was her little angel that could do no wrong. She always pitted us against eachother and she made sure he won every single time. The reason I say that the Golden Child is not destined to be a NPD theselves nor a BPD is because my brother (whom I always despised as a kid/teenager) joined the military right after high school and then moved 3 hours away to get away from her clinginess. This changed him. He grew into a man and didn't tolerate her BS (as much - he's still the Golden Child after all and that doesn't die easily, but doesn't let her run his life anymore). Because of this my brother and I get along fine now. He's genuinely a great person and father to his girls. Thank God he married a woman who sees right through my mothers mask and can see her for what she truly is - a monster, and for that she pities me.



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18 Jan 2016, 12:11 pm

Nichole wrote:
I completely agree - with a twist. Although it's only a theory, I believe that a Narcissistic parent (particularly a mother since that is where we are supposed to learn unconditional love from) produces a Borderline child but ONLY if that child was the 'Scapegoat' child. If the child was the 'Golden child' I do not believe this to be true since they did not suffer the abuse that the other child did. Now if the child of a NPD is an only child I believe they are more likely to become NPD but that's a whole other subject.

I am the daughter (scapegoat) of an NPD mother and suffered great emotional abuse. My mother saw me as her competition and my name growing up was always 'little b***h'. My father was a passive, try to get along with everyone, hard working, stay with mom for the sake of the children, tried to be my shield as much as he could, but unfortunetly didn't have the balls to stand up to his wife. I love my father don't get me wrong- without him I would probably have killed myself as a child, but instead of standing up to her he decided to work as much as he could to stay gone and distance himself from her poisonous words (he was never good enough, made enough money, or did anything right in her eyes). My younger brother (golden child) was her little angel that could do no wrong. She always pitted us against eachother and she made sure he won every single time. The reason I say that the Golden Child is not destined to be a NPD theselves nor a BPD is because my brother (whom I always despised as a kid/teenager) joined the military right after high school and then moved 3 hours away to get away from her clinginess. This changed him. He grew into a man and didn't tolerate her BS (as much - he's still the Golden Child after all and that doesn't die easily, but doesn't let her run his life anymore). Because of this my brother and I get along fine now. He's genuinely a great person and father to his girls. Thank God he married a woman who sees right through my mothers mask and can see her for what she truly is - a monster, and for that she pities me.


I'd say neither child is destined to have any personality disorder, but the risk is certainly higher. And in families with a spacegoat and a golden child, usually the scapegoat will have worse psych issues, but both kids will generally have issues.

It seems likely that your brother benefited a great deal from his time in the military. While I wouldn't recommend it to most people from abusive backgrounds, in some ways military life is the exact opposite of being the 'golden child'. The golden child gets praise regardless of what they do, so they have no idea what's good or bad to do. In the military, in contrast, rules are explicitly spelled out, and breaking them gets punishment while following them gets rewards. It's a very clear and predictable structure to life, as opposed to the confusion of the 'anything you do is wonderful' system.

Not all parents with NPD have a golden child and a scapegoat, by the way, and some parents without NPD have this dynamic too. But it certainly is associated with a parent who is emotionally disturbed in some way.