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TwilightPrincess
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03 Mar 2024, 2:58 pm

Eyeselation wrote:
I lived my evidence. Not asking you to believe anything. Nor do I care at this point.

I’m not saying that I don’t believe your experience. I’m just skeptical about some of your conclusions. Not everyone who behaves poorly is a narcissist.


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TwilightPrincess
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03 Mar 2024, 3:03 pm

Jakki wrote:
Having said that have generally noticed a high degree of Naivete amongst Aspie
individuals . That quite honestly would feel neglectful for not having been able to warn people ( Aspies) about anyone
demostrating those tendencies in there lives.

I’ve obviously experienced a lot of abuse, and I’m extremely cautious about who I trust. I’ve also devoted a lot of time to talking about red flags and abusive behavior on this forum. The words “narcissist” and “abuser” are not synonymous though. People can engage in abusive behavior for a variety of reasons without having that specific disorder.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 03 Mar 2024, 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Eyeselation
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03 Mar 2024, 3:16 pm

“When I want your opinion I’ll give it to you”



Jakki
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03 Mar 2024, 3:43 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Jakki wrote:
Having said that have generally noticed a high degree of Naivete amongst Aspie
individuals . That quite honestly would feel neglectful for not having been able to warn people ( Aspies) about anyone
demostrating those tendencies in there lives.

I’ve obviously experienced a lot of abuse, and I’m extremely cautious about who I trust. I’ve also devoted a lot of time to talking about red flags and abusive behavior on this forum. The words “narcissist” and “abuser” are not synonymous though. People can engage in abusive behavior for a variety of reasons without having that specific disorder.



I get this post... and it is good to have other concepts in mind when dealing with people , Idealism and judgementalness
do not always make good bedfellows, i think . And adding balance to my previous post here is a good thing .. TY


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funeralxempire
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03 Mar 2024, 3:48 pm

Eyeselation wrote:
“When I want your opinion I’ll give it to you”


Less snark, more substance pl0x.


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Jakki
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03 Mar 2024, 3:52 pm

Eyeselation wrote:
“When I want your opinion I’ll give it to you”


Uhmm.. whether this was written as sarcasm or scepticism .... after reading this , does not create a good impression about your other posts . As literal translation :| is usually the norm for Aspies . This post i am quoting .imho does not get any brownie points. :( . Especially if just coming upon this thread for first time , if was a newbie to WP
And am guilty of using this type of communication in my writing here as well. :roll:
Sometimes it is hard to convey sarcasm , etc.. in the written word,if one is commonly accustom to Literal translation.


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TwilightPrincess
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03 Mar 2024, 3:54 pm

I do think that people with specific disorders are more likely to engage in abusive behavior, but I don’t like to blame the disorders themselves because:

1. They stigmatize people who, through no fault of their own, have the disorder

2. People can exhibit abusive or problematic behavior without having NPD (or whatever)

And:

3. I prefer to think that abusers have a choice - that their behavior isn’t entirely due to something that’s outside of their control. It’s often a combination of factors, and people typically have way less free will than we’d like to think. Still, it feels better to put blame squarely on an abuser’s shoulders rather than on stuff they can’t help. I think that’s especially the case for people who have grappled with shame and guilt for whatever reason.


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Eyeselation
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03 Mar 2024, 4:10 pm

Somebody keeps stating the obvious but is completely oblivious. And it’s not me.
Am I being trolled?
Didn’t ask for your credentials, paper or otherwise. Although I do recall being asked for mine.



TwilightPrincess
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03 Mar 2024, 4:23 pm

You claimed to have experience living and working with narcissists. How many officially diagnosed people have you worked with? How many people have you given an armchair diagnosis to? You can’t diagnose people unless you are a psychologist. It seems a bit farfetched to have that many experiences without overusing the term. It’s also farfetched to claim that they are “everywhere in finance” and even that this thread is something that a narc would conjure up. It makes your stated views seem doubtful unless you can back them up with solid evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.


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Eyeselation
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03 Mar 2024, 4:31 pm

Jakki wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Well, you said that this thread sounded like something a narc would conjure up.

You also said that you have lived AND worked with them your entire life. People who are narcissistic don’t typically admit to it. I’m not disputing your reality. I just don’t think people who aren’t psychologists are qualified to diagnose people.

Having NPD is not something that someone can help, and they aren’t necessarily bad people. I think we need to be careful about stigmatizing them, especially since some members of WP are diagnosed with it or were said to have some traits by diagnosticians.


Can easily appreciate .. TP empathy point of veiw ..but having dealt with a great number of people , whom have seriously wronged me in a repeated process, that I was given to understand that I was lucky to escape with my life , but late hubby was not so Lucky. Living through a mutual situation . And having grown up with repeated incidences of , what , I have learned to be Narcisstic traits in humans over my life (.Judging by my very few psyche classes in college)
(Which btw by no means am claiming qualifications to make professional judgements). Am sadly left to see Eyeselations point of veiw , very keenly ! 8O . And having been the object of repeated distruction of my limited life path.
By the large varieties of variations of people , (i have considered to be very possibly NARC type of individuals .)
Under these circumstances ,any person might NOT be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to persons demostrating
such NARC. typical traits. :ninja: . Having said that have generally noticed a high degree of Naivete amongst Aspie
individuals . That quite honestly would feel neglectful for not having been able to warn people ( Aspies) about anyone
demostrating those tendencies in there lives. :skull:
*******. *****. *****. *****. ******
Personal opinion: Any NARC. person demostrating those tendencies would automatically be subject to my descretion
concerning any interactions , A kind , friendly NARC might seem to me to be Someone waiting for the right moment to
( make the kill) on the object of their attention . :roll: ...potentially appearing to be opportunists regardless of disadvantage to the next person. Apologies in Advance for my level of Bias .
And have some degree of sadness for peeps that through whatever means, Have a trend towards demostrating such tendencies. Regardless of any intial impressions of kindness.


No need for you to apologize. You NAILED IT right on the head. Said it better than I could.



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03 Mar 2024, 4:41 pm

Autistics don’t have to be lambs to the slaughter. Don’t believe their words, believe their actions. And most of all believe in your gut instinct. Believe in yourself. Stay strong.

Now THAT I will ask others to believe.



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04 Mar 2024, 12:10 am

“A wolf in sheep’s clothing.”
This thread must be a narcissist’s dream come true. Such outpouring of empathy and vindication. Amazing…
All those Autistic Lambs out there for the taking.

For the literal minded I’m speaking figuratively.

Bonne Nuit must get some sleep.



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04 Mar 2024, 9:19 am

Comet Zed wrote:
The article overlooks some very fundamental differences in the development of ASD (a neuro-developmental condition) and NPD (trauma/abuse/attachment condition), as well as serious differences in how the similarities play out behaviourally.

Anyone who has been on the receiving end of these behaviours from a textbook malignant narcissist will understand. These individuals will go out of their way to manipulate, coerce, intimidate and groom whoever they need to to get what they want, and they have an innate sense of both the social mechanics required to reach these ends and the vulnerabilities of those who stand in the way. Skills that people with ASD can only dream about.

It makes me sick to think that anyone would consider these conditions related, which is not to disparage those with NPD. These individuals really do deserve sympathy; they are deeply insecure to their core and forever chasing the love, validation and attachment they needed when young but missed, and they will never ever get it. I can understand how the conditions can look superficially similar though unfortunately...


Thank you. Being the prey of various narcissists since I was a child I get suspicious when I see or hear others try to get someone to let down their guard. When that only works well for those with NPD, Disastrous for those with ASD. Possibly grooming is the wrong word, but it seems as if they’re being groomed to identify with, commiserate with, the very type of person they should avoid at all costs. Or at least keep contact to a minimum.
I can see some looking back and thinking they themselves were the problem not the narcissist. Because that’s what has been beaten into our brains since childhood. And narcissists are masters of projection. This thread is evidence of that.



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04 Mar 2024, 9:23 am

I have read somewhere that narcissism is more common with autistic folk. So I think there may be some truth to that notion.

I am not judging, however. :nerdy:



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04 Mar 2024, 10:34 am

funeralxempire wrote:
I think you're projecting your own issues on to a discussion of if empathy issues and poor theory of mind are relevant to both ASD and NPD.

Yep.

I suspect that fewer people would have problems with this thread if they read the article in the OP carefully and from an objective point of view.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with sympathizing with those who have a condition they can’t help. Nowhere in this thread is anyone suggesting we sympathize with abusive behavior. Nowhere in this thread is anyone suggesting that we let our guard down, identify with, or commiserate with those who are abusive.


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04 Mar 2024, 11:12 am

^^^^ Likes this above Post ^^^^ by TP
Inspite of my veiws about narcissism .
But never hurts to be wary ...And due to ongoing "gullibility " bad word used here . but Naivete does not emphasize
enough , about Aspies .And their automatic wanting to trust what they hear from people they might not know well enough to offer another person that level of trust . " but why would someone idk do that to me " and often it is only done because they can . Or possibly even a smallest amount of personal gain, whether it is your trust , your emotions
or your possessions or relationships. :roll: or a combination of all the above .. And for the Narcs. It might give them a sense of self worth or something. IDK here ? :| . And all the above reasons is why at the very least even level 1 Aspies might ought to have care givers or someone to help oversee stuff in their lives, Maybe even just find a neutral party to help assess some personal interactions . :nerdy:


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