I dislike the new pride flag design and here's why

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Lost_dragon
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21 Jun 2021, 8:02 am

So, you may have seen a redesign of the rainbow flag floating around the Internet recently. If not, here's the one I am going to be discussing in this thread :

Image

From the title of the thread, you already know that I dislike this design. Now, here are my reasons why :

1) It's chaotic. Too many colours which makes it harsh on the eyes (bright yellow right next to white? Seriously?). It's not immediately clear what is being communicated here and this is confusing. From a graphic design perspective, this flag is breaking a lot of design rules and I don't think it's justified here.

2) Skin colour is more complex than what is being represented. I understand the sentiment and we definitely should be having conversations about intersectionality. However, it's not as simple as brown, black and white. What about countless other skin tones that are being overlooked? Such as particular Asian identities that don't fit into these skin tone categories?

3) Further on that topic, I think that it goes against the intended message. The fact that it's implied that the rainbow represents white people by adding the brown and black stripes in (which implies that POC weren't already included in the rainbow) just further enforces the idea that white is the expected state of being in the community rather than fighting against this narrative. I don't want to overstep here as a white person, but this does not sit well with me.

4) I've heard it said that the black stripe also represents the people in the community that have been lost due to AIDS. Conflating the two is confusing and could have some concerning implications.

5) Why add the Trans flag? This is what the blue, pink and white stripes represent. Yet again, I understand the sentiment, there should be more focus on Trans rights and this can be an overlooked part of the community. However, I think that the Trans flag works better as a stand alone flag than being awkwardly shoved onto the rainbow one. It looks like an afterthought rather than a carefully incorporated aspect of the flag.

6) I've never particularly been a fan of the design of the Intersex flag, but as a stand alone flag I think that it is OK and that it communicates what it needs to. For those wondering, Intersex is a category that includes a variety of medical conditions where an individual cannot easily be assigned male or female due to differences in chromosomes, reproductive or sexual anatomy etc.

7) This design would be a nightmare to print and distribute. Fortunately, it does not seem to be in popular use. I much prefer the simple rainbow design. Yes, I am aware that the rainbow was not the original design and that it used to have more stripes but it was simplified for distribution purposes (for example, to fit onto a post-box during pride events). Still, I think that redesign was enough then and it's enough now.


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magz
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21 Jun 2021, 8:10 am

I'm probably behind with what's chic now because I'm seeing this flag for the first time... and I think it looks awful. Just bad design. Chaos.
I always interpreted the rainbow as a symbol of diversity, so to me, the rainbow flag as a whole encompasses everyone who needs to be encompassed - though I'm far from being a specialist on the topic.


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kraftiekortie
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21 Jun 2021, 8:52 am

I don't think it's bad----it's just something one would have to get used to.

It certainly gave me a slight headache when I first saw it.

Reminds me of my reaction to Baroque Art-----it's beautiful, but it's too loud and gives me a headache.



funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2021, 8:59 am

Clown pants.


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HeroOfHyrule
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21 Jun 2021, 9:52 am

I don't understand why the intersex flag was even added because I've always heard that intersex people usually don't want to be included in the LGBT. The rainbow also doesn't even represent a specific race/gender/sexuality/whatever, so I don't get the other flags being added in since the flag isn't just for gay people. This is coming from a trans person. :scratch:


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HeroOfHyrule
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21 Jun 2021, 9:55 am

magz wrote:
I always interpreted the rainbow as a symbol of diversity, so to me, the rainbow flag as a whole encompasses everyone who needs to be encompassed - though I'm far from being a specialist on the topic.

Exactly. The choice to add these things kind of defeats the purpose of the rainbow flag due to that, since it's already a sign of diversity and is supposed to represent everyone.


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funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2021, 10:13 am

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't understand why the intersex flag was even added because I've always heard that intersex people usually don't want to be included in the LGBT. The rainbow also doesn't even represent a specific race/gender/sexuality/whatever, so I don't get the other flags being added in since the flag isn't just for gay people. This is coming from a trans person. :scratch:


Historically a lot of intersex activists weren't so fond of the idea, primarily due to social mores towards the LGBT community at the time. They didn't want to criticize hetero-normative or binary gender norms even if there were queer people within their community because of concerns that it might undermine the fights they did wish to have.

Younger folks who've grown up without some of those pressures seem to be more likely to view orientation and gender minorities as natural allies of sexual minorities.

Or so it seems from my perspective. :nerdy:


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HeroOfHyrule
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21 Jun 2021, 10:20 am

funeralxempire wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't understand why the intersex flag was even added because I've always heard that intersex people usually don't want to be included in the LGBT. The rainbow also doesn't even represent a specific race/gender/sexuality/whatever, so I don't get the other flags being added in since the flag isn't just for gay people. This is coming from a trans person. :scratch:


Historically a lot of intersex activists weren't so fond of the idea, primarily due to social mores towards the LGBT community at the time. They didn't want to criticize hetero-normative or binary gender norms even if there were queer people within their community because of concerns that it might undermine the fights they did wish to have.

Younger folks who've grown up without some of those pressures seem to be more likely to view orientation and gender minorities as natural allies of sexual minorities.

Or so it seems from my perspective. :nerdy:

Ohh, that makes more sense! I've just always heard a lot of them don't want to be included in the LGBT, so it struck me as weird to put the flag on there since it seemed kind of rude. If they are okay with being included then I guess that isn't an issue. lol


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funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2021, 10:30 am

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't understand why the intersex flag was even added because I've always heard that intersex people usually don't want to be included in the LGBT. The rainbow also doesn't even represent a specific race/gender/sexuality/whatever, so I don't get the other flags being added in since the flag isn't just for gay people. This is coming from a trans person. :scratch:


Historically a lot of intersex activists weren't so fond of the idea, primarily due to social mores towards the LGBT community at the time. They didn't want to criticize hetero-normative or binary gender norms even if there were queer people within their community because of concerns that it might undermine the fights they did wish to have.

Younger folks who've grown up without some of those pressures seem to be more likely to view orientation and gender minorities as natural allies of sexual minorities.

Or so it seems from my perspective. :nerdy:

Ohh, that makes more sense! I've just always heard a lot of them don't want to be included in the LGBT, so it struck me as weird to put the flag on there since it seemed kind of rude. If they are okay with being included then I guess that isn't an issue. lol


Internalized bigotry has contributed to a lot of cracks between different blocs within the queer and adjacent communities but as attitudes change some of those cracks might vanish (as the ever expanding alphabet soup demonstrates).


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SandWitch
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21 Jun 2021, 10:57 am

I could care less about the flag.. when it comes down to it, the changes were made (at the end of the day) as merely another means of tieing in corporate interests, to further expand the spectrum of those in the "alphabet community" (myself included) into buying their products as a token of capitalizing of from our blinded gratitude as queer people for being "included" by the mainstream; the privilege of being acknowledged...

More products to make, more shows and movies to produce and video games to include these insectionalized communities into their marketing narrative to make more money from our pockets.

Once June's over, we don't exist to them, until next "pride month".

Call me cynical, but those are my thoughts on it.

But ya, it's an ugly flag; agreed.



steve30
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21 Jun 2021, 9:56 pm

As a homosexual man I disapprove of these new flags. Mostly because they incorporate unrelated causes.

Transgenderism has very little to do with sexuality.
Ethnic minorities has very little to do with sexuality.

If we are going to start including these things, why don't we include some extra stripes for disabled/autistic gays as well?

I will admit that I quite like it in terms of its visual appearance, but that's about it.



Bradleigh
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22 Jun 2021, 12:08 am

steve30 wrote:
Mostly because they incorporate unrelated causes.

Transgenderism has very little to do with sexuality.
Ethnic minorities has very little to do with sexuality.


I think that is part of the problem. The rainbow flag kind of gets called both the gay pride flag and pride in general, people thinking that it is just sexuality, while I understand that at least most of the other identities do have individual flags. But it seems kind of silly in whether the rainbow flag was already excluding groups.

I actually understand it that the modern rainbow flag without the extra bits on the side already had some stripes removed from its original to make it easier, so it is kind of chaotic to keep adding in more. I don't know a whole lot, but I kind of think that rainbow flag should have stayed simple as the Pride movement in general without generally needing to tie specific colours to causes, and then the additional flags for specific groups. Are we otherwise going to add in stuff for asexual, neurodivergent and so on?

But maybe it was already being a problem from people within Pride that want to exclude other groups.


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Lost_dragon
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28 Jun 2021, 7:24 am

On a somewhat related note, I dislike that the symbol for the NHS is so similar. People are confusing the two. The NHS has an arched rainbow, whereas the flat rainbow stripes are the pride flag.

This:

Image

Not this:

Image

It feels odd whenever I see a pride flag with NHS written over it in pen. Of course we can't copyright a rainbow, but I do wish more people knew the difference. Please just use the actual NHS symbol and not write over pride flags.


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