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warrier120
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23 Aug 2021, 10:18 pm

I've been thinking for a while about my gender identity and I'm starting to think I could be non-binary. Like I don't feel fully female on the inside in the same sense that I don't present in a particularly feminine way on the outside.

My new pronouns would be she/they, with a preference for she/her pronouns.

I have a question for other enbies here: How did you find out your gender identity (if you don't mind sharing)?


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Bradleigh
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23 Aug 2021, 10:44 pm

warrier120 wrote:
I have a question for other enbies here: How did you find out your gender identity (if you don't mind sharing)?


Mine probably sounds pretty dumb. What I consider my real aha moment, was as a gamer was recognising a long sense of uncomfortable with just the type of game avatars I had as a representation of myself. Such that I could use male game avatars, I was a little uncomfortable having them be too masculine, but I switched over to a female avatar and not only could I make them masculine it actually felt kind of validating. The problem was not quite that I couldn't play a masculine dude character, it was about how I thought of something as an extension of myself.

My discovery really was my internal sense of self, wasn't comfortable as only being male, and I had a whole lot of myself feeling repressed. Followed by feeling good when I expressed the different sides.


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warrier120
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23 Aug 2021, 10:53 pm

For me, when it came to game avatars I generally like being either a male character that's not too masculine or a female character that's not too feminine. In terms of my gender identity, I feel like I'm not female in every way, especially not socially.


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Bradleigh
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23 Aug 2021, 11:37 pm

warrier120 wrote:
For me, when it came to game avatars I generally like being either a male character that's not too masculine or a female character that's not too feminine. In terms of my gender identity, I feel like I'm not female in every way, especially not socially.


So it sounds at least a little similar.

Specifically I had a really weird block from making male warrior characters, I think that I found that the idea felt a little too masculine, but I made it a female character, even with a tomboy look of short hair, and it was like everything flipped upside down. I could keep making my male characters be less masculine roles or appearances (like a mage, especially elf), and when needing a tough more masculine role there was a female character. And it really has helped me come to terms with my expression, and in games hoping for more gender neutral or expansive options.


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auntblabby
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24 Aug 2021, 12:33 am

i have never really felt male. in the army barracks i really was out of place. it was like i felt like the androgynous "pat" character on SNL. i didn't really get along with men or women, i was an outlier and am so to this day. i don't know if this technically is "non-binary" or something else. i have male urges but i also have female urges. i don't have the typical male emotions, but neither do i quite have stereotypical female emotions but i am closer to that end than the male end.



HeroOfHyrule
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24 Aug 2021, 12:05 pm

I've always felt more "male" since I was a toddler and have identified heavily with masculinity, but even when I started actually identifying as male at 13/14 something felt "off". I did consider being NB then, though I didn't give a lot of attention to that idea. After that I've been sort of confused by my gender, and after thinking about things for years and having people suggest for a long time that I might be NB I decided to try going by that label. It just feels better to do that, for some reason, but I definitely still am heavily masculine/male leaning and will probably just continue to tell people IRL I'm a trans guy.

I also have the same experience of preferring more androgynous video game characters of either gender, and disliking overly masculine/feminine ones since I don't "relate" with them. I projected a lot onto Link from TLoZ as a kid, and still kind of do, because he's a guy but has always been very, very androgynous. lol


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Edna3362
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24 Aug 2021, 12:49 pm

As a child...
Girls are odd. Boys are weird. I don't want to be either nor simply stuck with one or another. Both isn't enough.

It didn't changed with age. It only gets clearer.

Women are strange -- despite growing up with a lot of them.
At best, I'm just familiar with living as being one solely because I was physically born with the female sex and raised to the gender assigned to it.

Men are outright alien, whether living with one, let alone living like being one.
This doesn't mean adverse -- I simply cannot imagine myself being nor becoming one whether or not I can relate to aspects, incline or aspire to the same to stuff in general that being a typical woman couldn't or wouldn't.



I don't even had to tell others that I'm not exactly female, nor I want to be male.

A person who knew me enough would notice the way I think, the way I move... It is either, both or neither.

I, on the other hand, don't mind nor care much. :lol:

Use whatever pronouns in English -- I'd take it as long that it is me.
But with my name and appearance, everyone will assume and will use pronouns and refer me as female.
... :twisted: Although that's not a problem in my native language.


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Cunfuzed
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15 Sep 2021, 12:31 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
warrier120 wrote:
I have a question for other enbies here: How did you find out your gender identity (if you don't mind sharing)?


Mine probably sounds pretty dumb. What I consider my real aha moment, was as a gamer was recognising a long sense of uncomfortable with just the type of game avatars I had as a representation of myself. Such that I could use male game avatars, I was a little uncomfortable having them be too masculine, but I switched over to a female avatar and not only could I make them masculine it actually felt kind of validating. The problem was not quite that I couldn't play a masculine dude character, it was about how I thought of something as an extension of myself.

My discovery really was my internal sense of self, wasn't comfortable as only being male, and I had a whole lot of myself feeling repressed. Followed by. feeling good when I expressed the different sides.


I don't think you're sounds as dumb as mine. My reasons for questioning goes towards a complicated explanation of a rare medical condition with no approved FDA treatment and has me led in the direction of gender modifying hormone therapy as an out of the box treatment idea. have tried talking to my doctors about a small menu of ideas and always get ignored and told not to do something if it seems to make me feel better but makes little sense to them.



SandWitch
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15 Sep 2021, 1:35 pm

It took me a life time. From believing I was merely just a homosexual individual, once puberty hit, to later discovering that I was indeed more than just "gay", and with not having had the correct mentors or language to guide me into the correct path of understanding.

I struggled with undiagnosed Gender Dysphoria (Until the last few years) and in my ignorance and eagerness for relief, I sought avenues like drag (the closest thing I knew about then that made me feel better), "crossdressing" privately in my room and playing with make up..

But even that wasn't good enough.

Body dysmorphia plaqued continued to plague me and I began having issues with the urge to "mulilate" my downstairs.. alarming as this was, I did countless hours of research and intense internal, spiritual contemplation to find out why my dangerous desires persisted and then discovered the history of "Enuch's"; it's historical, global and biblical meanings and figured.. that's me.. I must be a Enuch..

But, I wasn't.. there was more to my fabric to be unearthed.. I'd keep those dark desires and obsessions to myself for the coming years, until the term "nonbinary" came up in my search results.. from there on, it's what made sense the most, to me.. at that time in space, it's what I related to the most..

(before it began to change the concept of gender norms and acknowledge the wide spectrum of gender variation that exists unearthed to western societies and the internet, as a whole)..

I'd eventually come out to friends and family around 5 years ago, then after 1-2 years of accepting myself and developing that relationship towards others; I'd get "shamed" a few times too many, then I'd "retreat back into the closet", go along with the family narrative that I'd "lost my mind", and went on with my cisnarrative of faking happiness with the gender I was born as..

Fast foreward to 2020.. in the wake of the pandemic- 6 months inside of isolating (not by choice, for once), I find myself waking up in the middle of the night sweating, crying, suicidal af, ready to "complete" my downstairs mutulation I'd studied so hard how to do at home online the years before.. I was ready to die, I had nothing to lose, my sanity has left long before I woke from my night-terror..

I call 211, they lead me to "trans-lifeline", and I called them.. the rest of that year went on smoothly.. I discovered myself, found and attended local gender support meetings, gender therapy went well and still is ongoing.. I started HRT.. I came to terms that I was a trans woman, and began the process of transition.

Then I started to question again.. "f**k, I know I'm trans.. but I don't want to look like a dude or a chick.." "I'm happy with being in the middle.. f**k, I think I'm trans nonbinary, time to reshuffle my cards and slow down..

So, I did.. I slowed down.. consulted this revelation to my gender therapist and "chosen" family made up of fellow trans dudes and people.. I spoke with my Endocrinologist and decided it best to "stop" HRT for the time being; he brought up the likes of "David Bowie" and the term "Adrogynous", reiterated "nonbinary" ideology and I nodded my head in aggreance..

Then in my continued search for others who identity exactly as I do (There are literally only 2 other people online that I've discovered in the sludge and overbearing clogged youtube arteries of cis gendered and nonbinary trans infuencers that relate down to the T, my feelings and struggles), I'd come across the term "Trans-Adrogynous" and that made perfect sense to me and I related to the term perfectly..

Although the virtue of "labels" and pronouns are looked down upon by some, they are important to myself, for the understanding to the best of my ability about who I am. I don't push it down anyone's throats and don't make it a known issue for my everyday interactions.

But ya, that's my journey of self-discovery that I am indeed a person under the Trans and nonbinary umbrella and I identity as trans adrogynous.



Lost_dragon
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15 Sep 2021, 4:00 pm

I don't think I am an entirely typical cisgender female. The thing is, how I feel about having boobs literally changes by the day. I'm fortunate in that I have a small chest, so it's pretty easy for me to accommodate that. If I'm having a day where I want my chest to be noticeable, I'll wear a semi-fitting t-shirt or dress. However, if I have a day where I'm for no apparent reason getting signals from my brain making me feel insecure about my chest (even if it was absolutely fine yesterday? What on Earth, brain?) then I'll wear a loose button-up and it makes me happy to see myself with a flat chest (but if I wear a loose button-up on a day where my brain wants my chest to be visible I feel incredibly uncomfortable). So I don't know what's going on there. It's almost like my brain keeps plugging and unplugging a socket that connects to me to my gender identity. These days I just identify as a gender nonconforming woman, since I don't feel non-binary enough to identify as non-binary but I don't think most cis women feel this way about having boobs. That's good enough for me, I'm happy with being seen as a woman on both types of days so long as I get to wear clothes that make me feel comfortable.

Generally I use she / her, but I don't mind they. I hate he / him though and feel uncomfortable when people use those to describe me.


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Bradleigh
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15 Sep 2021, 5:37 pm

SandWitch wrote:
Then in my continued search for others who identity exactly as I do (There are literally only 2 other people online that I've discovered in the sludge and overbearing clogged youtube arteries of cis gendered and nonbinary trans infuencers that relate down to the T, my feelings and struggles), I'd come across the term "Trans-Adrogynous" and that made perfect sense to me and I related to the term perfectly..


Are you saying two YouTube channels, would you be able to say who? I have been coming across a number of non-binary channels, and arguably the most consistent thing is how different they often are from one another. Off the top of my head I know CopsHateMoe, Council of Geeks, Thought Slime, Negative Legend, and Jim Sterling.


Lost_dragon wrote:
I don't think I am an entirely typical cisgender female. The thing is, how I feel about having boobs literally changes by the day.


There is probably no place for me to say this. But sounds a bit like genderfluid, where you switch between mostly female, and then more androgynous on other times. It is under the non-binary umbrella, but it is fair if a good portion of times you think of yourself as pretty cis.

I am trying to educate myself, but I think that is what people mean by "she/they", where your preference is the first word, and okay the second. I have been trying to figure where I might fit, since I am usually not troubled by people referring to me by my assigned gender (outside of certain terms), but I think that I don't mind more gender neutral terms.


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Lost_dragon
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15 Sep 2021, 7:23 pm

Bradleigh wrote:

Lost_dragon wrote:
I don't think I am an entirely typical cisgender female. The thing is, how I feel about having boobs literally changes by the day.


There is probably no place for me to say this. But sounds a bit like genderfluid, where you switch between mostly female, and then more androgynous on other times. It is under the non-binary umbrella, but it is fair if a good portion of times you think of yourself as pretty cis.

I am trying to educate myself, but I think that is what people mean by "she/they", where your preference is the first word, and okay the second. I have been trying to figure where I might fit, since I am usually not troubled by people referring to me by my assigned gender (outside of certain terms), but I think that I don't mind more gender neutral terms.


Mostly cis a good portion of the time but that I have more androgynous days sometimes sums it up pretty well. I've always said she / her in public whenever I've been asked, because I'd rather not explain it most of the time or be judged, but I am also comfortable with they. However, if I was in an environment that seems fairly judgement free, I might bring it up. I've also heard the term demigirl, someone who is AFAB but does not fully identify with being a woman, socially or mentally. However, I don't like it personally because girl sounds a little immature to me.


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SandWitch
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15 Sep 2021, 9:56 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
SandWitch wrote:
Then in my continued search for others who identity exactly as I do (There are literally only 2 other people online that I've discovered in the sludge and overbearing clogged youtube arteries of cis gendered and nonbinary trans infuencers that relate down to the T, my feelings and struggles), I'd come across the term "Trans-Adrogynous" and that made perfect sense to me and I related to the term perfectly..


Are you saying two YouTube channels, would you be able to say who? I have been coming across a number of non-binary channels, and arguably the most consistent thing is how different they often are from one another. Off the top of my head I know CopsHateMoe, Council of Geeks, Thought Slime, Negative Legend, and Jim Sterling.


I'm familiar with copshatemoe, and I think I've heard of Jim Sterling, but am not savvy to their content.

But yes, I agree the fluidity of having a nonbinary identity and the differences in experience of most "enbys" (Personally, I feel the term unfit for me, so I just tell people that I'm trans, if they inquire) consist of a vast range of complexities and intersectionalities, making for a connection on relatability pretty much impossible.

With that said, the two youtube channels that I follow and relate to (almost) identical, the closest that I've come to relating in my personal experiences and feelings are : (Wonder Tries) https://youtube.com/channel/UC5FRhEsDjlBPzMb3jtUbBFA

&

The wonderful, Bryn Avery whom I relate to the closest and enjoy watching the most: https://youtube.com/channel/UCWSogVjgNQPq1UU3BCpgQDw



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15 Sep 2021, 11:34 pm

How did you find out your gender identity?

Hm. I remember being a child and having some sense of knowing I wasn't the same on the inside as the outside...there was a disconnect to it, a lack of understanding of what it meant to be a boy or a girl, and what it was to know you are one or the other. I dunno. Like the idea that I was told I was born afab meant I was a girl was as bizarre to me as saying I have brown eyes so I must be this that or the other. The whole idea was weird to me. It made no sense. There was no word 'non binary', when I was coming up. I remember seeing people like Grace Jones, David Bowie, even Annie Lennox and thinking to myself that they were closer (outwardly) to how I was internally, but I also knew they were performers, and to me that meant not real, dress up, a show. For me, it wasn't about how I presented, but how I actually felt inside. To this day, I still don't care how other people see me, I care about how I see me.

So yeah, I remember learning for the first time way back when, that there were trans folk...men stuck in women's bodies and women stuck in the body of men... I knew that wasn't me. I never have had gender dysphoria...some pull to either gender, the assigned one at birth or the opposite. I don't feel a connect to either, so I knew that wasn't a proper fit. But it still got my attention, people being in bodies that weren't right. That part I understood. Then years later I heard the term non binary. Hot damn, something that resonates. :lol:

In my case, I've always known. I just lacked the vocabulary until a few years back. In some ways I am masculine, in others feminine, and in most ways I'm simply me somewhere in the middle and somehow both and neither.



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16 Sep 2021, 7:32 am

When I was a child, I didn't fully grasp the social split between boys and girls either. All I knew was that I disliked talking to male children, because whenever I did, I had adults fawning over us and teasing us about our future wedding when all I wanted was to borrow a pencil or play with playground equipment. So I stuck to female friends because it drew less attention. I found the split to be silly, I remember at the time thinking 'This is stupid, we're gonna start liking boys in the future, so why avoid them now?'

As if life had a sense of humour, it decided 'Ha, not you'. I had a I'm not like other girls, I'm better phase. Which is regretful. I used to think I was better than the other girls because I wasn't boy-crazy and I didn't even get nervous talking to boys. Yeah, I have news for you bud. That's because you like women and not men, you goof. I made friends with a guy and we quickly became best friends. Others told me that women and men can never be just friends and that we should date, so we did and it was an awkward experience for the both of us. We never really dated, since we never really kissed (except on the cheek) but we kept up the charade for a while. I later came out to him as gay and he replied "me too" so I said that explained a lot and we both had a good laugh about it. He was the first gay friend (that I know of) that I had, it was nice to have someone I could talk to about such topics.

I started feeling these odd feelings about my body when puberty started happening. At the time I had assumed it was because it was new, and that I needed some time to mentally adjust to the changes. However, as time went on and the feeling persisted well into puberty and after puberty, I began to wonder what to make of it. I wondered if it was an intrusive thought, since I have plenty of intrusive thoughts. Even now I'm not fully sure whether it's a disconnect from femininity as defined by heteronormative ideals, or whether I fall under the non-binary umbrella, or if it's just an intrusive thought. All I know is that I'm feminine most days, and androgynous on others. That some days I like having a prominent chest and feel comfortable with my waist and hips (granted, I have a rectangular shaped body, so my curves are subtle) and on others I prefer a flat-chest look and a more square body. I still view myself as lesbian, since for the most part I am a woman who likes women and that's the closest label to my identity.


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16 Sep 2021, 7:44 am

warrier120 wrote:
I've been thinking for a while about my gender identity and I'm starting to think I could be non-binary. Like I don't feel fully female on the inside in the same sense that I don't present in a particularly feminine way on the outside.

My new pronouns would be she/they, with a preference for she/her pronouns.

I have a question for other enbies here: How did you find out your gender identity (if you don't mind sharing)?


It's very hard to pin down how I feel about my own gender. The majority of the time I feel no sense of gender at all. I feel alien in my own body. I feel like that part of me is muted somehow. At other times, I feel quite feminine and womanly. The closest "labels" I've found for how I feel are "genderfluid" or "genderfae". "Autigender" is also one that I can relate to.

As for how I found it out...I think it was always there but I didn't really have any words to describe it. My trans (also autistic) nephew actually helped me put into words how I'd always felt. I'm forever thankful to him.

My pronouns are also she/they :)


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