Telling the difference between aspie and transgender traits

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Traits.

How do you tell what traits are aspie, what traits are genderqueer, and what traits are both?

I do not have proper social mannerisms, female politeness/grace, conscientiousness, etc. This may be an aspie thing, but if I were a man, it would not be such a big deal. I stand out because I am a woman who acts like a man, yet I still have the emotions of a woman.

I'm never sure where to draw the line between aspie and transgender. There are a lot of aspie women who are also transgender. I don't know if I am aspie, transgender, or aspie and transgender. I just know that I do not feel or act remotely feminine. My brain is confused. Please help!

Hello Haywire,

I wish I could help but I am in a similar or perhaps adjacent boat to you!

I feel like I missed out on a lot of my gender socialization for some reason, perhaps because I was autistic. I don't think I ever properly picked up on what it meant to be a girl or woman. I remember being confused as a child about the difference between boys and girls (and which one I must therefore be) until I was at least 6-7 years old. I am still frequently confused about what "really" makes any person the gender they are and have no idea how to assess my own gender identity.

The advice that I have seen that helps is to not think about traits (whether you can be classified as this gender or that gender) or identity feelings (am I really this gender? do I feel like this gender inside?) so much as thinking about actions and what makes you feel the most comfortable. You might ask yourself questions like:

Am I ok with these body parts? Which ones? Would I change them if I could?
How do I feel in women's clothes? How about other clothes?
How do I feel when people call me "she", or "Ms.", or "lady"?
How does it feel when people treat me like I am female? What if I were treated like a man, or not gendered at all?

There are all sorts of questions you can ask yourself. But I have found thinking about it in this way (about the specific questions rather than big ones) makes me less anxious. I am still confused and unsure about whether I am transgender or female, but what I call it is starting to matter a little bit less to me as I explore things and present myself and act how I want to. What I mean is, it doesn't really matter whether you call yourself trans or female, or whether your aspie-ness affects your gender, so long as you are comfortable with who you are.

Interesting thing, maybe related maybe not. My mother didn't let me see my full DX paperwork when I was a kid but as an adult I looked it over and realized that the doctor had made notes about me having stereotypically male interests and behaviors and possible gender identity disorder or something - at 13. Another psych doctor said something similar later in my teens which I didn't understand and brushed off (at the time I thought I was a lesbian and thought he was referring to that) but now I realize that my gender stuff has always been out front and obvious to others even when I couldn't see it. I'm not sure if the mention in my DX papers means it has some relation to my autism or not though.

I'm a firm believer due to my life experience so far that most NT people can't empathize or even acknowledge that someone thinks/feels different than they do themselves. Whereas we're incapable by default, a lot of other NT just aren't trained despite the capability, whether it's through ignorance, or some other method. Those of us who find ourselves far from the center of the spectrum of whatever the spectrum is, are hard to process, and people try to lump us in with the rest. We don't fit their world view, so instead of treating us like individuals, they treat us as if we're the same round peg that fits in their round socket like everyone else despite us not being so well rounded. It's frustrating.

As a mtf transsexual, I deal with this a lot. I'm mid transition right now and I'm finding that when in girl mode, I can get away with acting certain ways, that would get me kicked out or unfriended and labeled things as a male. It's hard because, I'm so reserved when I present male. I've repressed myself because I don't want others to hurt me, I hide myself away so I don't draw attention. Compounded with my AS, it's really hard for me to deal with anyone under most circumstances whether I'm in boy or girl mode. Overall it's really frustrating.

The characteristics regarded as "feminine" such as particular ways of walking, sitting, speaking, are very much socially learned. Aspies generally tend to ignore / not be aware of / fail to learn / disregard those sorts of social norms. In that sense, we can tend to be more authentic.

Regarding emotions, as a male, I can see that it's fake, put on, repressed. From a young age, men who express emotions are shamed, shunned, treated as weak, and other men get embarrassed to speak about emotions - it's a social taboo for men. There's a desperate lack of emotional social support for men. I think the inner growth of many is stunted, which is why many can't talk about their inner lives even if they were urged to, and others such as myself feel extremely isolated. I see how we hide our emotions behind an unexpressive, gruff front. I doubt that men are really born different from women emotionally, except for this social shaping.

I learned from my father, that back in high school after I made my suicide attempt and came out about being trans(age 14), that the counselor/psych we went to ended up telling him, that I would deal with my gender one way or another, either now or later and there would be problems. I really wish I could have dealt with it back then instead of running and hiding from myself while running and hiding from others.

It's a good question btw. As I mentioned in my earlier post, gendered behavior, personality traits, taboo emotions, etc. are social constructs, either learned, conformed to, adopted or not, for whatever reason. Aspies by nature tend to be non-conformists to social expectations, e.g. disregard of such rules or just ignorance of them. Gender dysphoria on the other hand, is about the sense of being born in a body of the wrong biological sex. I experienced this when I was younger, but eventually settled, more or less. For those with a much stronger sense of it, reassignment transitioning is an extremely difficult journey which I imagine is only taken by those absolutely compelled to - so it will surely be clear enough if that's the case.

Well if you act and feel like the opposite gender, are you in the wrong body? Some would argue that you are either cis or trans, but I think it is a lot more complicated than that.

What do you mean by "act and feel like the opposite gender"? I tried to make the point in my posts above that it's a social myth that men & women naturally have different emotional range and set of behaviours. Gender-specific behaviours and emotions are culturally learned. If it's just behaviours & emotions, you're not in the wrong body; you're in the wrong culture.

For illuminating discussion of the biological origins of gender diversity, google Dr. Kate O'Hanlan. Just heard her at the Gender Odyssey conference in Seattle last weekend. Her research is showing that there is a complex set of biological factors impacting gender identity, expression and sexual orientation beyond the cultural binary model most of us have learned.

I think it is totally relevant to consider aspie traits in the context of social filters about gender norms! Wondering about that a lot myself, lately. I transitioned FtM.

"masculine" and "feminine" are 100% culturally fabricated things.

You are who you are. You are spending too much time concerned about labels.

anyway a cis male would not be wondering the things you are, you are likely a cis female with a label representing a basket of unrelated disorders lumped in under the label "autism".

Since when are men & women supposed to be a certain way??????

I feel like I am definitely male, but I am not as constrained by the gender roles of manliness in the USA.

My officemate is transgender and we were laughing because he always wanted the colors for the male Chaco sandals while I always wanted the colors for the female Crocs.

I like to knit and wear bright colors (my toenails are painted bright green), but I can also build a house and rebuild the engine in my truck.

All thought high school, everyone thought I was gay and at that time being gay was not acceptable.

I have had sex with men, but I am not romantically attracted to men the way I am to women (or maybe I haven't met the right man).

Are these ambiguities part of being on the AS or are they just part of being me?

I don't know if I can answer that, but maybe it isn't so important to answer that question.

I live with in situation either way.

I think gender is a learned/prescribed social construct. It plays on biological influences but it isn't the same as them. Autistics find it harder to pick up on social concepts, and may therefore find it harder to understand (and therefore accept) such an arbitrary idea as gender. I'm biologically female, asexual, and gender-neutral. I dress like a girl for the most part, I have some traditionally feminine traits and talents, but I have never built the idea of binary gender into my personality. Emotionally I think I am more 'masculine'; I certainly find it hard to participate in emotional conversations with other women. I just remember that I always wanted to be strong, and that I always wanted to be capable, and as I became more socialised through school etc. I learned that these were considered masculine qualities. That's fine though, it just means you can take people by surprise when they underestimate you. The downside; you get patronised a lot.

"Strong" and "capable" transcend gender.

There are many strong and capable women.

I completely understand what you're saying. I'm aspie as well, and I've been wrestling with my gender for ages. I think I'm a trans girl, but that could change. And yes, it is hard to tell where different things overlap. Sometimes I wonder if I really am trans, or if it all boils down to my neurology. I just don't know. But I guess I'm slowly trying to figure it out.

I have never felt female, but I never felt male either. I feel like me. I'm absolutely positive that it's not a symptom of any condition/state, but a characteristic of who I am. It's because I'm real.