Drum machine program?

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DemonAbyss10
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21 Oct 2010, 11:54 pm

AngelRho wrote:

DemonAbyss10 wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

What YOU need is the Rebirth app for iPhone.

http://rebirthapp.com/

They'd use that for a band? I think they're doing rock not acid techno.

yeah, variants of rock and metal, covering most of the spectrum other than more "poppy" sounding stuff. Mostly leaning towards prog/gothic styled rock and metal.

Yeah, but still... NIN is all over that kind of stuff.

Incidentally, I've been composing a pretty lengthy tune for handbells and orchestra, and there will be a kind of "cinematic" synth track going along with that. I made my own percussion samples using a Roland aJuno-1. You can get 'em on the cheap with eBay less than $200, you get a nice, phat analog sound, not really unlike the 808 if you're an open-minded enough programmer. I approach synths more as a sound designer rather than a preset-tweaker (though there's nothing wrong with that, either) and am proud to say all the sounds I use really are mine (exception: We're too cheap to hire all the string players I'd need, so unfortunately my track will have to include sampled string sections. On the other hand, the Synclav WAS the best string machine around before VSL). I initially sampled my Juno drums to the Synclav after using some effects in Logic (mainly a convolution reverb and little else), and then sampled the Synclav output to ReDrum for tighter manipulation (basic drum machine kinda stuff) and pattern programming. Eventually I'll get a finished product combining my "real" instruments with Reason and Logic. I'm just crazy enough that I do MOST of my sequencing on the 'clav rather than in Logic, but I've never found another sequencer quite as intuitive as the 'clav. The most important thing for live performance, though, is that you build enough loops, regardless of what you do, that you can build your actual performance "on the fly." Ableton is SO much more advanced than anything I've used to date in terms of what you can do on stage. I guess I'm just too old to get into it. But don't take those techno or acid kinds of sounds for granted.

I love old 80's music, probably more than anything else out there. But I really do find people like Trent Reznor and Evanescence (and even The Fallen, for that matter) to be immensely inspiring. There's PLENTY of room for innovation and growth in goth/prog music still.

If you MUST do without a drummer, take it a step further. You can't really replace a living human being, but drum machines and loop players give you SO many more options than plain, old, oogga-chahcka kinds of beats. I really LOVE those more "cinematic"-sounding loops, and if you are writing/recording your own demos, I'd LOVE to hear what you could do with that kind of thing. If you like, I could send (PM me for email, etc.) you some of the percussion effects I have so far. A word of warning though: My analog toms are VERY 80's pop sounding, so I wouldn't recommend trying to use those very much!

Good luck, and PLEASE get some stuff of your band on youtube sometime if you haven't already! I think I speak for most of us that we'd enjoy seeing/hearing what you do.

Well, I just suprised myself earlier. Found a whole bunch of my VST files. Sadly we arent at the recording phase just yet. We are all still getting used to each other as well as getting a setup going. I can already see friction between me and the bassist though so I dunno.

As for influences, I wasnt thinking of only NIN. Ill link ya to a few lesser known bands we have been drawing inspiration from AS WELL AS mention some of the more well known bands.

Beyond Eden (new band that is actually from an area like 6 miles away, so I "know" them, but I don't "know" them) : http://www.reverbnation.com/beyondeden

Fountain of Tears (not sure if they are still around.):
http://www.fountainoftears.com/news/
http://www.myspace.com/fountainoftears

as for more well known influences...

Dream Theater (Scenes From a Memory)
Tool (Lateralus and earlier)
Within Temptation
Dark Tranquility (Character Album)
Epica
Kamelot (Especially from "The Black Halo" album)
Opeth
Arcturus (La Masquerade Infernale album in particular. I love the band because of simply how different they are from anything else.)

@TechStep Well, if you like Industrial Metal in the same vein as Fear Factory, you may want to check out Still Life Decay. The vocalist from fear factory was involved with them for a while.

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AngelRho
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22 Oct 2010, 1:37 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Lol....ok, if we're giving offers of personal opinion this is mine - I really hate how a lot of newer industrial, seems like almost all of it, sounds like 1993 trance/techno with a guy screaming over it. Mainly that the beatwork is entirely old, uninspired, makes it sounds like utter garbage.

What I'm dying to see is someone use the old Skinny Puppy motif with new sounds and in newer ways. Fragments of new skool gangster rap (beats like the one under Let Me In by Youngbuck seems perfect for it), bits of dubstep, IDM, dub techno, jazz, ambient, new age, crash it all in to each other, sometimes - quite literally - crash, get things trainwrecking into each other methodically to intensify the mood, distorted train-whistles at the right off-signature spots, liquid noise baths, that kind of thing.

To go that route, having a decent computer sampler is great (sounds like you may already have it), from there - just start grabbing records. Any time you hear of a dj on Craigslist getting rid of a whole bunch of hip hop, electronic, jazz, soul, or r n' b records - if they're going at bargrain rate grab em. Chop, paste, skew, make a big sickening collage. Just make sure you're vocalist has enough grit in both vocals and song writing to fill that order. If you're not sure how its done, again, listen to Last Rights a few times through - that'll set you on point

. Then again, do as they do - just don't try to have your stuff feel just like theirs, that's when it stops being forward thinking.

Not that you have to take my suggestion - I'm just dying to hear someone do it. :cry:

Tech: Wish I could, but there's not enough time in the day. Where I live, there's not a lot of stuff like that available, although I WAS in New Orleans last weekend. Making chop suey out of vinyl sounds like fun, but that's just not where my interests are.

But I'm no stranger to sound collage. Remember, I have a degree from a legit music school, not like that Berklee College crap (Crane School, SUNY-Potsdam). Which, in part inspired my curiosity and later obsession with the Synclav (Jazz from Hell, anyone?). And my little boy LOVES everything related to trains. I'll start be recreating some "Thomas the Tank Engine" whistles and then go hang out by the tracks with a microphone and my Korg MR1000, right after I get some fresh batteries. It might take me a while to get around to it, but I'll mash up something for ya!

Actually, I have a couple of things: One is a piece called "Snow Crash," yes, inspired by the book. I had another piece played at an electronic music festival. I haven't uploaded anything to youtube, so maybe I'll start there.

And we really need to put some pressure on Demon to post videos of his band. =)

techstepgenr8tion
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22 Oct 2010, 4:20 pm

Lol, that advice was more to Demon but - if he's doing something Fear Factory'ish, still, better than screaming over trance. I don't think I would have pegged you for the industrial type - maybe Ambient or IDM, but industrial not so much.

BTW - with what you mentioned I might have to pick your brain on mixdowns and mastering one of these days. Seems like half the expression and mood that I really want to get out of my tunes rests heavily on those details.

AngelRho
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22 Oct 2010, 10:19 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Yeah, I figured that! lol Darn that aspie brain--just can't figure it out and respond only when appropriate.

But it's good advice. I agree that there are better things than screamo/trance fusion.

I am more of the instrumental type. COULD do ambient if I set my mind to it, but the funny thing is the minute I "say" I'm going to just do one kind of music, people start giving me jobs to do. It's good to have preferences, but I don't like thinking of myself as ONLY doing this kind of music or that kind. I "could" do industrial, but it would take too much time and effort to get that far out of my regular box. But that doesn't mean I can't listen to some SP every now and then!

Maybe Demon will take your advice, after all! I'd like to hear that, myself.

To be honest, I'll be glad to help any way I can, but mastering is a personal weakness. My approach is basically get the sounds you want, keep the volume low for the sake of headroom. The equipment I use now is really good in how it handles triggering samples. You really won't hear anything else like it. You can layer all sorts of things and get this really wide spread of sound. So since my sequences already sound perfect from track to track (because I'm picky about the samples), there's no need in adding any gain stages. I'm sure a pro at mastering would argue otherwise. What *I* need to start doing is paying more attention to EQ and panning, and I suspect you might have the same problem. I always feel like my mixes use too much compression and sound "overproduced." I have no idea how to fix it, because everything just sounds like mud.

Or...

I could just mix everything down to mono...

techstepgenr8tion
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22 Oct 2010, 10:50 pm

I'll PM you on this - otherwise we're gonna steal this poor man's thread .

DemonAbyss10
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24 Oct 2010, 10:50 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

I'll PM you on this - otherwise we're gonna steal this poor man's thread

Doesnt matter now anyways. Huge arguement ensued over band direction last night. Myself and the Keyboardist left because of how much of an as*hole the other two were being about it as well as fundamental differences in veiwpoint as to why we perform. Us two were more of the "We play because we purely enjoy it." Other two were of the type "for profits and sex" They also kept bickering with us because we wanted to take things slow and steady instead of divebombing right into it.

Oh well, at least Im still friends with the keyboardist. as well as the fact that I think I may follow some of what has been said. Maybe experiment with some self-made ambient tracks. Can't let the split get me down too much :/

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techstepgenr8tion
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24 Oct 2010, 2:28 pm

Well, if you still want to make music on your own and work with sequencing, sampling, maybe get a sense of where your own tastes really are - I just got Abeton Live 8 today, I'm scoping out its capabilities to see what I can do more intuitively here than I can in ProTools or Reason. BTW, Ableton does have a lite version for $100. Supposedly its the best thing for working with samples, I'd say watch a few Youtube tutorials on it to see if your interested.

AngelRho
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24 Oct 2010, 3:21 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

AWESOME!! ! Let us know how you like it.

Ableton is Rewire, isn't it? I'm on a REALLY tight budget, having blown all my money on the big stuff when I had the chance to. So unfortunately I have to stick with just what I have. Still, I'd use it if someone just gave it to me!

Demon: Sounds to me like your vision is WAY beyond ambient. Hang in there and stick with musicians who share your vision. One problem that bands typically have is that TYPICALLY one person turns out to be the leader. You can't really have a band that is totally democratic without having some problems. My band (classic rock, hard rock) has a strong guitarist who really is proactive in leading the way. Everyone else are strong players, but not necessarily strong leaders. And none of us really have strong stage presence. So, being the youngest of the group, I got a MAJOR bump up in status when I convinced them to jam with this other guitarist I work with at my church gig. The attitude and musical direction of the group COMPLETELY changed, and it's ALMOST as much fun as it is a lot of work. We're a long way from getting gigs, but it's going to be exciting once we do.

Personally, I'm more of an eclectic, so I don't have a problem playing classical music at weddings, CCM at church, rock/pop in band rehearsal, and then turn right around and write for handbells or orchestra (or both), and jazz/lounge piano for private parties. It might not be what I like ALL the time, but it's all about staying busy if you want to make a life of music--whether you really make money at it or not isn't the issue, and it sounds to me like you've got a good head on your shoulders for it. But even if you DON'T care about the money, take a stand NOW and #1) avoid free gigs unless you just need the exposure, and #2) Absolutely under NO circumstances "pay to play."

If you've got good musical chemistry, or kemistry, with your keyboard player, work on that and put together some loop tracks to fill out everything else. LIke I said, I'm a BIG fan of Reznor, one guy who doesn't NEED other musicians. Basically, in my opinion, the only reason NIN has other musicians playing live is so they look good on stage. NIN is very much a one-man-show. A one- or two-man show might be exactly the kind of thing you need right now. Personally, I've found the only person I can REALLY rely on is myself when it comes to actually getting things I want done. For me to take it to the next level personally, I'm going to have to figure out how to get other people involved in my work, and I'm not pretending that it will be easy. You are in a good position to figure out who you CAN work with or even if you WANT to, so enjoy it while you can!

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24 Oct 2010, 11:05 pm

Ugh, I'm banging my head on the wall with Windows 7 x64 tho. It won't accept Pro Tools as primary soundcard, no patch to fix that - I'm SOL. Pro Tools 8 can't see Ableton either in 7 x64 so, can't open it through there either (Rewire is simply a docking station that Pro Tools uses for RTAS - made by Propellehead though, strangely).

The two upsides - I did figure out a way to route my audio from my computer to the mbox to my HS80M's; eighth inch jack from my soundcard to two quarter inch jacks going into the back of my mbox. Yes, its ghetto-rigged, it won't sound quite as a good as having it all go directly from the mbox but - its already way better than having it all simply go through my computer speakers, I could EQ to them ok but I couldn't articulate or nuance well simply because they were far too muddy.

The other upside - got a whole world of VSTs that I can use now, went through the plug in list and I can honestly say that my mixdowns, filtering, and EQing, should all improve exponentially. So many great tools out there and different ways to rake frequencies. Especially being able to use my monitors and not be in ProTools, so I can properly get used to them - that's big. Seems like I may have quite an interesting year ahead of me, I just hope I won't get too perfectionistic to release anything.

DemonAbyss10
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24 Oct 2010, 11:23 pm

well, found a free version of sony's acid software, so Im now gonna try that out, see how it is for sequencing. Ill get back to yas on that after ive run it through its paces with the looppack you can also download for free for it. Maybe ill upload something if I think I made something that sounds half decent.

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CowboyFromHell
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30 Oct 2010, 11:20 am

I use FL Studio for my stuff. I'm getting some nice realistic sounds. Lacks in the triplet department, but I barely know how to use it beyond the most basic functions so the feature might be there and I hadn't found it.

Only thing that bugs me about step sequencers/drum programmers in general is that they sound too unnatural, they're too perfect. The sounds of the instrument plugins themselves sound like the real thing but when played in a sequence it sucks when each note is the same. Somebody who covered a Beatles song in a YouTube got told off in a comment for missing a couple notes, when I pointed out the Beatles themselves missed notes and hit plenty of dead ones.

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Dnuos
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31 Oct 2010, 6:25 pm

Wow, I tried Hydrogen myself and it's actually really good.

Sound-wise, sounds the closest a drum machine can get to drums. Obviously nothing beats the real thing, but it's pretty good.

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03 Nov 2010, 4:06 pm

You should look into a Drumbot like the mad scientist group Consortium Of Genius has :arrow:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH01nzw_9jU[/youtube]

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