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SpreadsheetMaster
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06 Aug 2018, 9:25 am

Sure, I don't mind.



fluffysaurus
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08 Aug 2018, 4:56 am

Your problem isn't your dialogue it's that you are trying to tell everything through dialogue, which is really hard to do.

POV- point of view. You're using omnipotent narrator, which is also very difficult to use and I think may be making it harder for you to convey the feelings of the characters to the reader successfully. I recommend changing over to third person single point of view. Pick a character and tell the story from his perspective, that will remind you that at every scene you must tell the reader what his (the pov character) is trying to do/achieve and how he feels, particularly about things that get in his way.

For an example I've chosen Gerald. I've said what he wants (freedom from school). I've added how he feels about what's happening around him. The feelings I've added may well be the wrong ones, it's just an example of how to put them in.

After a few more boring announcements they were allowed to leave the gym. Gerald let out a sigh of relief; it was still early and as long as they didn't leave the orphanage grounds they could go where they liked.
Kagura taped him on the arm. "I want to show you my new book," he said. "Can you come to our dorm."
"Sure. And I can help you with your maths," said Gerald. He liked maths and he was good at it and Kagura could do with the help.
"Look out!" shouted Marcus.
Gerald turned. His stomach clenched; Dylan was lunging towards him, his expression murderous.
"D...Dylan, calm down," said Marcus stepping hesitantly between them only to be shoved out of the way.

At this point you would need to go into how Gerald feels about having Dylan come at him. Is he scared or keen to get stuck in. I got the feeling that he's scared but he's not going to back down, is that right? That could be shown by telling the reader how he feels inside -- heart racing, feeling sick, trembling, while keeping the "No, it's fine," on the outside to show how he intends to come across to others. If he's keen to get stuck in then that needs to be shown through his feelings too otherwise readers make false assumptions (like I did). eg -- heightened senses, the thrill of adrenaline, lightness in the chest.

Did you notice that in my version the only change to your actual dialogue was to add "D..." to Marcus's bit. I did change and move some of your dialogue tags though. Most should be he said, she said, Dylan said, Gerald said ect. Using alternatives brings attention to the tag so it's best done when you want readers to notice them such as 'shouted Marcus' but shouldn't be done just to avoid using said. A page of he said, Fred said, Joe said, is most often caused by to many characters or not enough characterization, so just turning them into alternatives doesn't help.

If you are going to use an action about someone as the way of saying who's speaking (I do this too and find it very effective) such as --

“I saw that stunt you pulled at lunch, half-blood. You should be locked away.” Dylan raised his fists.

then putting the action first helps the reader to understand what's going on.

Dylan raised his fists. “I saw that stunt you pulled at lunch, half-blood. You should be locked away.”

I have more points but I will do them in another post.



SpreadsheetMaster
Snowy Owl
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08 Aug 2018, 10:13 am

My story IS single person third person point of view. How does it seem like omniscient narrator point of view? Just from the lack of feelings in that passage? I reread it and don't understand how you got that impression. It's from Gerald's point of view and the narration only includes his thoughts, not anyone else's.

I've gotten feedback that I have too much dialogue and not enough other stuff in my story since I started writing. This draft actually has a lot less dialogue in comparison to narration than previous drafts did. But this is one of many issues I address to a point I thought was satisfactory and still get the same feedback over again regardless. I do see how your version adds more feeling to the story.



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08 Aug 2018, 1:39 pm

SpreadsheetMaster wrote:
My story IS single person third person point of view. How does it seem like omniscient narrator point of view?
It's this bit--After a few other announcements, the students left the gym. It was still early enough in the day that the students could spend time anywhere on the premises of the orphanage other than the school.--it reads like information you are imparting to the reader not as if you are following Gerald.
Quote:

Just from the lack of feelings in that passage? I reread it and don't understand how you got that impression. It's from Gerald's point of view and the narration only includes his thoughts, not anyone else's.
It contains very little of his thought and almost nothing of his feelings. Your right it doesn't contain the thoughts of others either.
Quote:

I've gotten feedback that I have too much dialogue and not enough other stuff in my story since I started writing. This draft actually has a lot less dialogue in comparison to narration than previous drafts did. But this is one of many issues I address to a point I thought was satisfactory and still get the same feedback over again regardless. I do see how your version adds more feeling to the story.
Have you considered your style of writing might be a better fit to radio, theatre, or screen plays? like I said, I think your dialogue is fine, and if that's what you enjoy writing then perhaps you should focus on doing it more rather than less. It was interesting to see a fight scene shown as much as this one through dialogue, I'd be quite interested in seeing the original (more dialogue) version.



SpreadsheetMaster
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08 Aug 2018, 2:16 pm

fluffysaurus wrote:
SpreadsheetMaster wrote:
My story IS single person third person point of view. How does it seem like omniscient narrator point of view?
It's this bit--After a few other announcements, the students left the gym. It was still early enough in the day that the students could spend time anywhere on the premises of the orphanage other than the school.--it reads like information you are imparting to the reader not as if you are following Gerald.
Quote:

Just from the lack of feelings in that passage? I reread it and don't understand how you got that impression. It's from Gerald's point of view and the narration only includes his thoughts, not anyone else's.
It contains very little of his thought and almost nothing of his feelings. Your right it doesn't contain the thoughts of others either.


I see. Yes, I agree that bleeds a bit into informing the reader. Can I not do that when it's from a single character's perspective? And/or do you consider that unnecessary information? I'm constantly running into disagreements with the majority on what is and isn't necessary for books. To me it feels subjective, while others assure me I'm just wrong.

Quote:
Quote:
I've gotten feedback that I have too much dialogue and not enough other stuff in my story since I started writing. This draft actually has a lot less dialogue in comparison to narration than previous drafts did. But this is one of many issues I address to a point I thought was satisfactory and still get the same feedback over again regardless. I do see how your version adds more feeling to the story.
Have you considered your style of writing might be a better fit to radio, theatre, or screen plays? like I said, I think your dialogue is fine, and if that's what you enjoy writing then perhaps you should focus on doing it more rather than less. It was interesting to see a fight scene shown as much as this one through dialogue, I'd be quite interested in seeing the original (more dialogue) version.


I did originally write this like a play, but that was only because I posted it on a forum where that was the style. Again, I'm including what I think is important, and excluding what I think isn't. Things like describing the setting of each scene or going in depth into characters' feelings constantly are to me largely irrelevant information. See the thread I made about other issues... I would like to be able to write it like a book, though. If only because my writing critique group is my main social outlet now... Lol.

I don't recall how much I changed the dialogue for that particular scene. The original version of the first REAL fight in the story had a long conversation between Gerald and his enemy throughout the whole fight. I cut probably over 90% of that for this draft.



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10 Nov 2018, 3:58 pm

Not that anyone cares but I’m going to work on chapter eight soon. Here's chapter 7 though
"Shiloh! Shiloh Kumori!" Darla shouted from the kitchen.
Shiloh woke up. Who could've thought that lip syncing could make you fall asleep so quickly? Shiloh rolled off of the futon and stood up. Then he walked out of his room's open door.
"Mom, did Dad take his meds?" Shiloh asked yawning.
Darla giggled.
"Yes he did, and we have guests for dinner." Darla said happily.
Shiloh smelled something really good. It smelled like....
"Mom! You made eel donburi! That's my favorite!" Shiloh rushed to the kitchen.
The egg, fried eel, rice bowl....Shiloh could eat it all in sitting.
"Give me more of that food, Mrs. Kumori!" Eli shouted with a mouth full of food.
Eli was stuffing his face with the eel donburi. Allan took the napkin off of his lap and dabbed his lip corners.
"Keep eating like pigglet and maybe you'll finally be a fat kid like me." Allan said in a snide tone of voice.
Eli just kept eating faster than a car at the Monaco Grand Prix. Shiloh walked up to Allan and held out his hand.
"Hey, are you E's brother?" Shiloh asked.
"Sadly. I mean, just look at him! Why would any seducer eat in such an uncouth manner?!" Allan said watching Eli gulp down a soda and let out a burp.
Allan shook Shiloh's hand.
"Anyway, I'm Allan. I am a mage. I do things other than show off my body and flirt like someone I know." Allan said grumpily.
Shiloh twirled the rice and egg with his chopsticks. As he stared at the table he debated if he should bring up the DNA sharing thing to his parents or keep his mouth shut. Ken looked at Shiloh concerned.
"Hey you okay?" Ken asked.
Shiloh stood up quickly and slammed his fists on the table nearly spilling everyone's drinks.
"Why didn't you tell me?" Shiloh asked angrily.
Shiloh breathed in and out so hard to the point where he felt like he was going to pass out.
"Eli told me everything!" Shiloh said pointing to his new "friend".
Eli looked away from Shiloh's stiff and pissed off face. He couldn't help but to feel some form of guilt.
"Shiloh, hunny. We just didn't want you to feel any different from any other boys your age." Darla said.
Shiloh's eyes turned bright, nearly neon red.
"If it's demon you want, demon you will get." Shiloh said menacingly.
Roman looked at Eli and nodded.
"Son, you know what to do." Roman said.
Eli got out of his seat and held a hand in the air.
"Incubus time start!" Eli shouted.
Curved horns grew out of Eli's head. His green eyes glowed red. His fingernails turned black.
"I've been waiting for this since day one." Eli said wiping saliva from his lips.
Shiloh swiped his hand in the air.
"Do your worst." Shiloh breathed.
Eli gazed into Shiloh's eyes.
"Manipulation massacre!" Eli shouted his voice echoing.
Shiloh soon felt dizzy. It was like he couldn't think for himself.
"I command you go back to your human form. If you do not, I will not be afraid to use force." Eli said.
Eli let out a grin that exposed his fangs.
"And believe me, we do love force, us seducers." Eli said.

Shiloh's eyes turned white for thirty seconds or less. Then they returned to hazel. His fangs went back to being normal teeth. He feel to the floor. Eli turned back to his human form. Eli laughed.
"That was fun, I want to play with you again!" Eli laughed.
He held out his arms.
"And look! The kitchen is unscathed!" Eli declared.


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23 Dec 2018, 6:41 pm

I'm not a big fantasy fan but I like the family dynamics here. I could imagine all the characters from the dialogue which means it's nicely distinctive per person.

Is anyone else feeling like this time of year it's impossible to write, or even read? I keep getting distracted by movies and social time and shopping and other things like this. I am writing but just at slow speed.



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23 Dec 2018, 9:01 pm

TUF wrote:
I'm not a big fantasy fan but I like the family dynamics here. I could imagine all the characters from the dialogue which means it's nicely distinctive per person.

Is anyone else feeling like this time of year it's impossible to write, or even read? I keep getting distracted by movies and social time and shopping and other things like this. I am writing but just at slow speed.


I'm very probably going to take the next few days off to celebrate the Holiday.


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fluffysaurus
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24 Dec 2018, 2:54 am

I'll carry on with my ms this morning and Xmas morning (till 11)because I've just got back into a rhythm, but on

Boxing Day (best day of the year) I'm going to take a day off my ms and outline something totally different,

maybe contemporary. And eat, of course, and eat, and eat, and eat :D



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27 Dec 2018, 4:29 am

I've realised something. The reason why this poem is taking so long is because it's 10 separate poems (it's a sequence) joined together and I have to do each bit at a time which means my 8 drafts which is all I've managed to do since last Monday is actually the equivalent of 80 of my usual drafts.
Makes me feel a lot better. I'm still getting 10 drafts a day done.
Besides, poetry isn't a race.



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27 Dec 2018, 4:31 am

TUF wrote:
I've realised something. The reason why this poem is taking so long is because it's 10 separate poems (it's a sequence) joined together and I have to do each bit at a time which means my 8 drafts which is all I've managed to do since last Monday is actually the equivalent of 80 of my usual drafts.
Makes me feel a lot better. I'm still getting 10 drafts a day done.
Besides, poetry isn't a race.


No kind of art is a race.


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29 Dec 2018, 8:02 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
TUF wrote:
I've realised something. The reason why this poem is taking so long is because it's 10 separate poems (it's a sequence) joined together and I have to do each bit at a time which means my 8 drafts which is all I've managed to do since last Monday is actually the equivalent of 80 of my usual drafts.
Makes me feel a lot better. I'm still getting 10 drafts a day done.
Besides, poetry isn't a race.


No kind of art is a race.


I think racing through art is bad for art but I completed Milwordy this year and that is like a race as you have to write a million words in a single year. It's fun as well. But the writing I produced from it was bad and not edited properly.
However, I did inktober and because I'm not used to spending days on visual art, that felt the right pace. An ink drawing per day. I did mine in a5.



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29 Dec 2018, 4:16 pm

TUF wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TUF wrote:
I've realised something. The reason why this poem is taking so long is because it's 10 separate poems (it's a sequence) joined together and I have to do each bit at a time which means my 8 drafts which is all I've managed to do since last Monday is actually the equivalent of 80 of my usual drafts.
Makes me feel a lot better. I'm still getting 10 drafts a day done.
Besides, poetry isn't a race.


No kind of art is a race.


I think racing through art is bad for art but I completed Milwordy this year and that is like a race as you have to write a million words in a single year. It's fun as well. But the writing I produced from it was bad and not edited properly.
However, I did inktober and because I'm not used to spending days on visual art, that felt the right pace. An ink drawing per day. I did mine in a5.


8)


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30 Dec 2018, 8:33 am

I got my first flash fiction published.
Mum says I'm 'branching out'.
It doesn't feel like I am though. The same skills are required. Focus on every word.
What I find hard is short stories where attention to detail is less important than attention to the broader scope.

Get this for weird. The story has followed me around since I was 11. Before I started secondary school. (I started when I was 12 because I was socially inept, although I was smarter than my peers).
The story just needed structure. I entered it into a contest.

It doesn't feel like winning the contest is all that special though. They want 1237 people to win. So, it doesn't feel like my last one where only 6 people won.


http://bamwrites.blogspot.com/2018/07/4 ... ology.html

People on here might find it interesting to enter. It calls for a very aspie style brain I think. Has to be 42 words. Not 41 or 43.

I'm writing in shorter paragraphs cos someone on here said that was clearer to read. I'm scared that I can't write prose. I know I can write poetry because I've got quite a few publications under my belt now.
But prose is the number 2 (not like that lol) way people talk to each other. So it's important to be able to do it.



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30 Dec 2018, 12:16 pm

TUF wrote:
I got my first flash fiction published.
Mum says I'm 'branching out'.
It doesn't feel like I am though. The same skills are required. Focus on every word.
What I find hard is short stories where attention to detail is less important than attention to the broader scope.

Get this for weird. The story has followed me around since I was 11. Before I started secondary school. (I started when I was 12 because I was socially inept, although I was smarter than my peers).
The story just needed structure. I entered it into a contest.

It doesn't feel like winning the contest is all that special though. They want 1237 people to win. So, it doesn't feel like my last one where only 6 people won.


http://bamwrites.blogspot.com/2018/07/4 ... ology.html

People on here might find it interesting to enter. It calls for a very aspie style brain I think. Has to be 42 words. Not 41 or 43.

I'm writing in shorter paragraphs cos someone on here said that was clearer to read. I'm scared that I can't write prose. I know I can write poetry because I've got quite a few publications under my belt now.
But prose is the number 2 (not like that lol) way people talk to each other. So it's important to be able to do it.


I'm just the exact opposite: my specialty is writing fiction, but my poetry always comes out as prosey, with no music or rhythm.


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