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Ganondox
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15 May 2014, 8:32 pm

It's not a real genre, but I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. It's that cheesy ultra-macho stuff that most metalheads hate because it's freaking stupid. Both lyrically and musically it's more concerned with masculinity than most metal, with deep vocals, simple yet aggressive riffs, and corny self-empowerment lyrics usuallly about overcoming some adversary that can easily be interpretted as being about some wrestling match, though these songs are frequently surprisingly melodic. Usually musically it falls somewhere between groove metal and hard rock, often overlapping with nu metal. Metalheads often lump it as being more hardcore than metal, but it really has nothing to do with hardcore punk, it's not punk in the slightest. Basically what ends up becoming WWE themes. Surprisingly, I don't think Fozzy applies at all, though I'm not really familiar with their music. I usually hate this stuff (with the exception of Adrenaline Mob, because they are freaking amazing, even with their wrestle metal songs), but for some reason I'm in the mood for this crap. Anyway, putting a language warning now, as most of this stuff has heavy swearing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04F4xlWSFh0[/youtube]
Probably the definitive Wrestle Metal song and most obvious choice.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk9EtgUxoIM[/youtube]
Despite their image Five Finger Death Punch avert this trope surprisingly often.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eXIOK2vOhM[/youtube]
And like the previous one, it's even has a wrestling music video.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tczU6OWoUkI[/youtube]
I like this one a lot more than the other Godsmack song, though I'm not sure if it really counts.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJkIy1IqBGc[/youtube]
Probably the best Wrestle Metal song ever created, the shear aggression is unrivaled.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx9KJ682Ckg[/youtube]
This is the only Disturbed I know I'd really consider anywhere close to Wrestle Metal. Anyway, using a version without the abuse part because I hate it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Z-vn67srU[/youtube]
This song is interesting because of the contrast between it's wrestle metal and epic metal parts at the end. Neither is a genre, but it should be obvious what I'm talking about when you listen to the song. Russell Allen is an amazing singer.

So yeah, go ahead post away.


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mr_bigmouth_502
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15 May 2014, 9:48 pm

So in other words, what you're basically describing is early 2000s nu-metal. :P I like some of it, in fact "Down With the Sickness" is an all-time favorite of mine, but I usually prefer the 90s variety of nu-metal, like KoRn and Deftones.

Come to think about it, "wrestle metal" would work well as a name for that subgenre of nu-metal. It would help distinguish stuff like Drowning Pool from stuff like KoRn. Now what I wonder is, what would Linkin Park's early stuff be called? What would Limp Bizkit or the other more rap-oriented bands be called? What would System of A Down be called?



Ganondox
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16 May 2014, 12:15 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
So in other words, what you're basically describing is early 2000s nu-metal. :P I like some of it, in fact "Down With the Sickness" is an all-time favorite of mine, but I usually prefer the 90s variety of nu-metal, like KoRn and Deftones.

Come to think about it, "wrestle metal" would work well as a name for that subgenre of nu-metal. It would help distinguish stuff like Drowning Pool from stuff like KoRn. Now what I wonder is, what would Linkin Park's early stuff be called? What would Limp Bizkit or the other more rap-oriented bands be called? What would System of A Down be called?


I'll admit I don't listen to a ton of nu metal as I prefer traditional heavy metal, and I don't even know the classic nu metal acts extremely well, but I'll try to do my best to make an analysis.

It's not strictly nu metal, some of it is more hard rock (albeit very heavy hard rock), and Five Finger Death Punch lies solidly in groove metal territory. If you compare early Drowning Pool or Disturbed with Godsmack or Adrenaline Mob you can hear the difference as well as similarities, first two are nu metal while the latter two (as well as latter Drowning Pool) are more hard rock/heavy metal, both I consider "wrestle metal". The main thing is it doesn't have as many hip-hop or industrial elements (though apparently Godsmacked has some industrial based songs like Speak, I haven't heard them aside from samples) as other nu metal, and may have guitar solos. Other than that, yeah, early 2000s nu-metal minus Linkin Park. Overall I'd consider it a subgenre of nu metal with a bit of wiggle room into hard rock and groove metal.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co5n2RVbWM0&feature=kp[/youtube]

As for other sub-categories of nu metal, Rap metal is a genre, and Limp Bizkit falls under that as well as nu metal. Linkin Park has lots of rap as well, but are obviously a lot different from Linkin Park, having more alternative and electronic elements. Admittedly I thought they were really only tangental to nu metal and where really just a nu metal influenced alternative rock act until I heard some of their heavier songs. As for System of a Down, they are something else entirely, they aren't even really nu metal. One description I liked is they are like Fugazi playing Rush, or what would happen when a real hardcore punk band attempted progressive metal. Can't forget about the Middle Eastern elements either. They are very much an alternative band.

I definitely prefer Deftones and Korn (older and newer stuff for both bands) to "wrestle metal", though I think The Sickness is one of the best nu metal albums. Then again from what I've heard most of The Sickness isn't really "wrestle metal", it's just Down with the Sickness that's in the realm, I definitely wouldn't put "Stupify" or "Voices" in this category.


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mr_bigmouth_502
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16 May 2014, 4:04 am

System of a Down really can't be placed in any particular genre... they were lumped into the nu-metal scene but they're really something else entirely. I would call them avant-garde Middle Eastern insane-core, or something. :P Progressive alternative metal would probably work too, though that would be putting them in roughly the same category as Tool, and the two sound almost nothing alike. I guess you could also say SOAD have a bit of a punk influence with their fast tempos, simple riffs, and short song lengths.

Linkin Park is another one I almost feel deserves its own label, as it's really a combination of alternative rock with hip hop, electronica, and some metallic riffs. Again, they were lumped into the nu-metal scene in their early days, but they were really their own thing. "Hybrid Theory", the original name of the band as well as their first album and EP, seems like a fitting name for what they play.

Back on the topic of "wrestle metal", your description of it seems pretty spot on, though I think hip hop still plays a bit of a role in how the bands themselves portray themselves, even if it doesn't really translate over to the actual music. The sound itself is more like a simplified, "verse-chorus-verse" take on Pantera minus the solos and any other sort of virtuosity, and with an over-exaggerated sense of machismo, but I think that the type of "tough guy" image that Drowning Pool and such try to portray is drawn more from hip hop than it is from metal.



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16 May 2014, 8:15 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
System of a Down really can't be placed in any particular genre... they were lumped into the nu-metal scene but they're really something else entirely. I would call them avant-garde Middle Eastern insane-core, or something. :P Progressive alternative metal would probably work too, though that would be putting them in roughly the same category as Tool, and the two sound almost nothing alike. I guess you could also say SOAD have a bit of a punk influence with their fast tempos, simple riffs, and short song lengths.

Linkin Park is another one I almost feel deserves its own label, as it's really a combination of alternative rock with hip hop, electronica, and some metallic riffs. Again, they were lumped into the nu-metal scene in their early days, but they were really their own thing. "Hybrid Theory", the original name of the band as well as their first album and EP, seems like a fitting name for what they play.

Back on the topic of "wrestle metal", your description of it seems pretty spot on, though I think hip hop still plays a bit of a role in how the bands themselves portray themselves, even if it doesn't really translate over to the actual music. The sound itself is more like a simplified, "verse-chorus-verse" take on Pantera minus the solos and any other sort of virtuosity, and with an over-exaggerated sense of machismo, but I think that the type of "tough guy" image that Drowning Pool and such try to portray is drawn more from hip hop than it is from metal.


Well, I love both Tool and System of a Down, but as you said they are obviously very different. Unlike Tool I wouldn't actually call them progressive metal, nor would I call them hardcore punk, it's just that it's what I guess progressive metal would be as interpretted through a punk ethos. It's not just the music you can hear a punk influence in, but probably more importantly the lyrics, which are often political and nature, and that bands image.

"take on Pantera minus the solos and any other sort of virtuosity" Some of the bands I listed do use solos and have some virtuosity, notably Adrenaline Mob which started as the side project supergroup of a bunch of legendary progressive metal musicians. I was actually considering adding Pantera, but I can't think of any specific songs that really fit that mold, they are just redneck metal. As for the exaggerated machismo, while I think the bitch-smacking part definitely came from hip-hop (and some other hip-hop influence as well with the rhythms and language, just less flat-out rapping or hip-hop electronics), I think it's a bastardization of hard rock as well that adds to the image, wrestling has always been associated with hard rock. Though, now I'm thinking "Muscle Metal" might be a better name, because alliteration :P. Anyway, I think it's best summarized as where nu metal meets hard rock.


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mr_bigmouth_502
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16 May 2014, 9:33 pm

Ganondox wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
System of a Down really can't be placed in any particular genre... they were lumped into the nu-metal scene but they're really something else entirely. I would call them avant-garde Middle Eastern insane-core, or something. :P Progressive alternative metal would probably work too, though that would be putting them in roughly the same category as Tool, and the two sound almost nothing alike. I guess you could also say SOAD have a bit of a punk influence with their fast tempos, simple riffs, and short song lengths.

Linkin Park is another one I almost feel deserves its own label, as it's really a combination of alternative rock with hip hop, electronica, and some metallic riffs. Again, they were lumped into the nu-metal scene in their early days, but they were really their own thing. "Hybrid Theory", the original name of the band as well as their first album and EP, seems like a fitting name for what they play.

Back on the topic of "wrestle metal", your description of it seems pretty spot on, though I think hip hop still plays a bit of a role in how the bands themselves portray themselves, even if it doesn't really translate over to the actual music. The sound itself is more like a simplified, "verse-chorus-verse" take on Pantera minus the solos and any other sort of virtuosity, and with an over-exaggerated sense of machismo, but I think that the type of "tough guy" image that Drowning Pool and such try to portray is drawn more from hip hop than it is from metal.


Well, I love both Tool and System of a Down, but as you said they are obviously very different. Unlike Tool I wouldn't actually call them progressive metal, nor would I call them hardcore punk, it's just that it's what I guess progressive metal would be as interpretted through a punk ethos. It's not just the music you can hear a punk influence in, but probably more importantly the lyrics, which are often political and nature, and that bands image.

"take on Pantera minus the solos and any other sort of virtuosity" Some of the bands I listed do use solos and have some virtuosity, notably Adrenaline Mob which started as the side project supergroup of a bunch of legendary progressive metal musicians. I was actually considering adding Pantera, but I can't think of any specific songs that really fit that mold, they are just redneck metal. As for the exaggerated machismo, while I think the b***h-smacking part definitely came from hip-hop (and some other hip-hop influence as well with the rhythms and language, just less flat-out rapping or hip-hop electronics), I think it's a bastardization of hard rock as well that adds to the image, wrestling has always been associated with hard rock. Though, now I'm thinking "Muscle Metal" might be a better name, because alliteration :P. Anyway, I think it's best summarized as where nu metal meets hard rock.


System of a Down is System of a Down, there's no other band that sounds quite like them. "Progressive metal interpreted through a punk ethos" seems like a pretty apt description.

The rhythms and language of wrestle metal are actually fairly hip hop-esque, now that I think about it. I almost drew the musical connection between the two before, but I was having a bit of a hard time with it since the elements are more subtle (subtlety in wrestle metal, how about that? :P) than outright rapping or hip hop beats.

I like the ring of "muscle metal", though with that moniker I can't help but think of things like Pantera, or some of the songs on Metallica's "Black Album". They certainly sound "muscular", but they definitely don't fit in the same category as the bands you listed.



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18 May 2014, 6:39 am

I think the greatest tragedy of rock and metal in general is that it has to conform to masculinity, that metal is supposed to be "tough" and same goes with the people who listen to it. It's really too bad because some of the best music of the genre does no such thing.

But having said that, some take it to new levels, and "wrestle metal" is a great way to put it. never heard that term. :lol:


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18 May 2014, 8:40 pm

886 wrote:
I think the greatest tragedy of rock and metal in general is that it has to conform to masculinity, that metal is supposed to be "tough" and same goes with the people who listen to it. It's really too bad because some of the best music of the genre does no such thing.

But having said that, some take it to new levels, and "wrestle metal" is a great way to put it. never heard that term. :lol:


I agree, a lot of my favorite bands are ones who eschew "toughness" and masculinity in favor of more sensitive, emotional subject matter. Nirvana is a good example of this, as are Nirvana, KoRn, Green Day, Linkin Park, and even Nine Inch Nails.



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19 May 2014, 10:47 pm

886 wrote:
I think the greatest tragedy of rock and metal in general is that it has to conform to masculinity, that metal is supposed to be "tough" and same goes with the people who listen to it. It's really too bad because some of the best music of the genre does no such thing.

But having said that, some take it to new levels, and "wrestle metal" is a great way to put it. never heard that term. :lol:


Agreed, my favorite metal is that which embraces it's feminine side. It doesn't have to full out symphonic metal and it's okay to occasionally have a very masculine oriented song, but I think bands like Tool, Deftones, and Devin Townsend Project (or any of his other projects, even Stappling Young Lad at times) a rounder form of metal very well. I really respect 5FDP for making this music video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptzzU7jFQwo&feature=kp[/youtube]
as it shows that despite framing themselves as a macho metal band that they are cool with embracing a more sensitive side and care about these issues.


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mr_bigmouth_502
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20 May 2014, 12:12 am

Ganondox wrote:
886 wrote:
I think the greatest tragedy of rock and metal in general is that it has to conform to masculinity, that metal is supposed to be "tough" and same goes with the people who listen to it. It's really too bad because some of the best music of the genre does no such thing.

But having said that, some take it to new levels, and "wrestle metal" is a great way to put it. never heard that term. :lol:


Agreed, my favorite metal is that which embraces it's feminine side. It doesn't have to full out symphonic metal and it's okay to occasionally have a very masculine oriented song, but I think bands like Tool, Deftones, and Devin Townsend Project (or any of his other projects, even Stappling Young Lad at times) a rounder form of metal very well. I really respect 5FDP for making this music video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptzzU7jFQwo&feature=kp[/youtube]
as it shows that despite framing themselves as a macho metal band that they are cool with embracing a more sensitive side and care about these issues.


That was an amazing video. I'm glad to see there are still popular musicians out there tackling tough issues instead of just writing songs about sex/drugs/partying.